God’s righteousness vs the gcm’s equality
Posted on June 18, 2007 by gcmwatch
An African American Christian responds to Soulforce’s “equality ride” which ended April 26. He points out that Soulforce’s political religion, based on “equality” differs greatly from God’s requirements which are based on righteousness, repentance and obedience to Christ.
In great contrast to the gay christian movement, the man uses scripture fluently in his responses. His use of scripture provides a basis of judging the context, accuracy and truthfulness of his answers.
Filed under: African American, Soulforce, Videos, political religion
CNN Won’t Let you See This Guy. A Real Christian Responds to the Soulforce “Equality Riders”.
If you watch enough CNN, you’d think that every Black person claiming the name of the Lord Jesus Christ was into false doctrine and promoting sin like homosexuality. As if it was some piggy back on the real Civil Rights Movement of the 1960R…
I just want to leave you with a perspective from another African American Christian, Coretta Scott King:
“I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
Yours in Christ,
Brian
Brian,
We are very familiar with this quote from CSK. It might interest you to know that it is almost always used by gay christians in defense of their homosexuality. Not scripture, but the words of a woman who was gay affirming.
You seem to be proving exactly what we pointed out about the gay christian movement. While authentic Christians (such as the man in the video) take the authority from God’s Word, you seem to take your authority from people who agree with your sexual choices.
Let me ask you: (1)given a choice over whose words meant more to you, would pledge to obey God’s words or the words of Coretta Scott King? and (2) Whose words would carry more moral authority: God’s or the late Mrs. King’s?
I would be more than happy to respond with God’s Words, since those are the ones in which I find my purpose, salvation, and comfort. You provided the perspective of one African American Christian, I was merely providing the words of another.
Which is why we asked you which has more moral weight to you. However, we pointed out that the man did not use his perspective but rather relied on the Word to guide him in his answers. Therefore, we –or anyone– could judge whether or not he was being true to the will of God. That is missing from the defenses of the gay christian movement.
I would like to talk about the word “sodomite”. When I turn to Ezekiel 16:49, I find that sodomites are people who are “arrogant, overfed and unconcerned, [those who] did not help the poor and needy.” When schools make Equality Riders stand in the cold and rain rather than give them food and shelter, that sounds like a real sodomite to me.
We don’t support or sanction use of the word “sodomite” regardless of who uses it.
I would like to talk about Genesis 2:18 when the LORD says “It is not good for man to be alone. I will make a HELPER suitable for him” and when Adam has the final decision, looking upon Eve and says “bone of my bones, flesh of my flesh” this is who I choose for my helper. I would like to talk about the reality of how that helper, that joyous companion, comes to gay men and lesbians in the form of someone who happens to be of the same sex.
Brian you have just allegorized the scripture completely out of its clear meaning. This is a favorite tactic of the gay christian movement when it encounters scriptures which challenge their ideological homotheism.
I would like to talk about how Jesus nowhere condemns homosexuality but repeatedly stresses a message of inclusion for those the religious authorities have deemed unworthy (the women, the Samaratins, the lepers, the poor…).
We mean no offense, but this is a rather catonic “possum” defense, that is logically indefensible. If we were to use your logic of divine silence equals divine approval, the actions of child molestors are also worthy of “inclusion.” You also make a quantum connection of what is clearly sinful living with elements which are not sinful nor or they necessarily a result of sin. Being a woman, poor, sick does not bring divine judgment. Sexual immorality always does.
I would like to talk about how Peter received new truth and changed his mind about who was fit to be called a Christian, saying in Acts, “But God has shown me that I should call no man impure or unclean.”
The question which would then arise from that stated verse is: has God declared sexual immorality aka homosexuality “clean” or “pure”? If he has, please cite where it is.
I would like to talk about Jesus, when in Matthew 7:16, says “By their fruit you will recognize them.” And I would like to talk about the fruitful gay and lesbian married couples that I know that bear good fruit in their personal lives, in their churches, and in their communities.
Brian, again you rely heavily on your allegorical escapes. Jesus distinctly directed this passage toward “false prophets” (vs 15). While the worthwhile contributions of gay and lesbian citizens are appreciated in the communal-societal aspect, that in no way arbitrarily translates to right relationship with God.<
I would like to talk about how 1 John 3:18 tells us “Dear children, let us not love with words or with tongue, but with action and in truth.” And I would like to ask what love for God’s GLBT sons and daughters looks like.
The wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (Eph 5:5-7). There are obedient children who accept the chastisement of God for their sins and the disobedient who refuse to accept God’s way. They become subject to his wrath. Additionally, those who reject correction are not his children at all, but “bastards.” (Heb 12:6-
Because standing in a ditch, with a Bible in my hand, when I looked at Yellowstone Baptist College, all I saw was Sodom. And when I listen Brother Solomon judge and dismiss children of God whom he has never met nor spoken with, I feel no Christian love.
Brian,
That college leadership’s decision to not allow homosexual propaganda on their campus is their freedom of association right. Freedom of association is also used in the case where gay activists don’t want Christians participating in their gay behavior parades.
As far as your claim that Jesus “nowhere condemns homosexuality,” I’d like to point out a few facts that you are missing.
Christ is God, the Holy Spirit (God also) inspired the Bible’s writing, So when
God declared homosexuality an abomination in the Old Testament, it was in fact
Christ (God) who was the one declaring that. So, Christ did say a lot about
homosexuality. Everytime God says it in the Bible, Christ (being part of the
Godhead) is agreeing with all that is previously written when he proclaims to
the Father, “Your word is truth”.
John 1 explains that Christ was (and is) GOD in the flesh and was the Creator
who made everything, including every word written by man to be included in the
Bible. This unequivocably solidifies the inerrancy of the Bible and supports
God’s original proclamations in Scripture that homosexual behavior is sin and an
abomination.
I’m concerned about the tenor of this conversation. The notion that being gay is sinful is accepted as fact and without question.
If we are going to condemn an entire population of people, shouldn’t we be positive of what are condemning and why?
So instead of sharing with you what I draw from Scripture, I would like to know why being gay is sinful.
Brian,
Christ is God, the Holy Spirit (God also) inspired the Bible’s writing, So when
God declared homosexuality an abomination in the Old Testament, it was in fact
Christ (God) who was the one declaring that. So, Christ did say a lot about
homosexuality. Everytime God says it in the Bible, Christ (being part of the
Godhead) is agreeing with all that is previously written when he proclaims to
the Father, “Your word is truth”.
John 1 explains that Christ was (and is) GOD in the flesh and was the Creator
who made everything, including every word written by man to be included in the
Bible. This unequivocably solidifies the inerrancy of the Bible and supports
God’s original proclamations in Scripture that homosexual behavior is sin and an
abomination.
Brian wrote:
“Because standing in a ditch, with a Bible in my hand, when I looked at Yellowstone Baptist College, all I saw was Sodom. And when I listen Brother Solomon judge and dismiss children of God whom he has never met nor spoken with, I feel no Christian love.”
If you would open your Bible and read Hebrews 4:12, you will discover that the words that God speaks to us through Scripture are sharper than a two-edged sword.
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I don’t know if you’ve ever been pierced by a sword…but they hurt!
Perhaps God is doing a work in your life right now showing the truth (even though it hurts) and leading you away from former error on the subject of homosexual behavior acceptance.
I have read my Bible and I’ve yet to see in a place where it condemns being gay. I’m getting a lot of citations thrown at me but none that address being gay. There are many sins and the Bible convicts me strongly of those. I don’t doubt that at all.
I’m just waiting to see where the Bible says being gay is a sin. Because I don’t see it.
Brian for those reading your remarks, please explain what “being gay” is in your own words.
Part of the problem is that you are taking a socially constructed idiom and attempting to find it “as is” in scripture. For instance, and individual might say “I don’t see in the scripture that smoking is a sin!” Should that individual then take it without question that smoking cigarettes is good and desirable habit for a professing Christian?
As to the “tenor” of the conversation, we are less concerned about tone offense as we are about truth making an individual free. That being said, the tone of the conversation is civil and respectful.
You are right in acknowledging that smoking is not explicitly prohibited in scripture. However we are told to take care of our bodies, which smoking does not do and addiction to nicotine places the addiction as a person’s first priority (though, you may object to allegorizing “no other Gods before me” since that commandment was referring to actual gods that were not YWHW).
Conversely, “the trinity” is not mentioned by name anywhere in the Bible but the majority of Christians accept this tenant. We can agree something need not be explicitly supported in scripture to be valid nor explicitly condemned to be invalid.
To answering your question, to be gay is to be emotionally, physically, and spiritually attracted to someone of the same gender.
Idioms are phrases such as “kick the bucket” … “gay” is not an idiom.
To keep with the civil tone of our conversation, I would appreciate you responding in your own comment (as you did recently) rather than butchering up mine. Thank you.
I am excited to continue this conversation as we seek the Truth together and understand one another better.
“Christ is God, the Holy Spirit (God also) inspired the Bible’s writing, So when
God declared homosexuality an abomination in the Old Testament, it was in fact
Christ (God) who was the one declaring that.”
“This unequivocably solidifies the inerrancy of the Bible and supports
God’s original proclamations in Scripture that homosexual behavior is sin and an
abomination.”
So Christin, please explain to me why many of the other laws declared by God…and as you say Christ…in the old testament, and Leviticus specifically, are completely ignored. And what about stoning? God/Christ says certain infractions are worthy of stoning. In light of your above comments shouldn’t Christians be stoning people to death? Slavery is another issue condoned or even encouraged in the Bible…should we ignore the abolishment of slavery? There is just so much cherry-picking of verses when it comes to gays!
John,
What is it with the “cherry-picking of verses mantra” commonly used by most pro-gay theology advocates? Do you all have some kind anti-
biblical “instruction book of talking points” that you meticulously follow or what?
The “cherry picking” of Scripture is being done by the gay theology advocates. Not GMCW, me, or any other Christian believer who holds to traditional scholarly Biblical exegesis.
Please take the time to read GMCW’s post and link to Case Not Made: Response to Prof. John Thorp He explains it better than I ever could!
Brian,
Your approach is typical of gay activists…I can tell you have been versed in what to say and how to say it, but unfortunatly, there are loop-holes in your arguement. To answer your questions and to find or come or understand Truth, Read “The Same Sex Controversy.” You can find it online. It is a book that will clarify any misunderstandings…it’s a good read.
I don’t think of myself as an activist (though, I can understand where that label comes from). In fact, it wasn’t until very recently, after many many years of prayer and personal study of Scripture that I had any sort of opinion for myself… let alone felt comfortable sharing that with others. I suppose I should take it as a compliment that I seem “versed” … I take God’s word seriously so I am happy that I portray that.
Is “The Same Sex Controversy” by James White and Jeffrey Niell? I was able to locate it in online stores (hopefully a local library has it as I don’t want to spend money on something I haven’t read).
It’s unfortunate that the Truth is for sale, but I suppose it comes with living in America. I’ll do my best to track down a copy and read it.
Brian, I can appreciate your response. I too have read and read….both sides of the story, and I have to say, to hear you say that you would actually make an attempt to locate the book and read it, let’s me know you are fair minded…that’s great.