Mary Mary, ministry and mixed messages

22 Jul

No doubt you’ve heard of superstar sister duo Mary Mary. If you havent, you probably have but didn’t realize it. After reading an rather interesting interview Mary Mary did with a gay activist, I began to see the immense pressure to accept homosexuality as normal and to shuttle biblical truth if one wants to be big in the gospel music industry. Compromise is inevitable. It also points out how those weilding influence in the gospel music industry even if they believe homosexuality is a sin, are forced to bite their tongues to satisfy record companies and keep their gay gospel music loving fans. Translated: if homosexuals stop buying your music because of what you believe —and openly state— about their sin, you will not be successful.  Moreover, it shows the snare satan has set for the church has two components: homosexuality and music.

Most of the names and personalities in the gospel music industry portray or call themselves ministers and evangelists, etc. But are you truly a minister of the gospel when you place success and acclaim over truth which the bible says “makes one free”?

We told you about Sunday Best winner Crystal Aikin who performed at the dedication of an Atlanta homosexual church. Although Aikin refused to talk about why she went, her manager explained plenty about the pressure to accept homosexuality in exchange for success in “gospel music”. Mary Mary (along with BeBe Winans) were judges on the show and chose Aikin as the winner.

Even season five American Idol contestant Mandisa Hundley was widely thought to have been axed from the show because of comments she made before singing Mary Mary’s hit “Shackles”.  Her mention of the words “lifestyle”, “God” and “free” offended homosexuals watching the show. Mandisa said the controversy hurt her to the point of depression.

“It tossed me into a very deep depression,” Mandisa says of the controversy. “There was a bit of a campaign to get me eliminated by a population that thought I hated gay people. People thought that when I said ‘lifestyle’ I was referring to the homosexual lifestyle when I was actually referring to people saying that if you’re overweight you should have a lifestyle change. The fact of the matter is that I don’t hate anybody. I have several friends who are gay and I don’t treat them any differently than I would anybody else.” [source]

Again, another powerful reminder that if you sing gospel music, you’d better not make even the slightest reference to homosexuality being wrong…or else.

The gay writer who interviewed Mary Mary brought up the duo’s “gay fan base” and asked them what they thought about that and about homosexuality being a sin.

Another interesting fact about Mary Mary is their enormous gay following. Their songs are constantly played in gay clubs and many claim without the support of the gay community Mary Mary would not have achieved such mainstream success — not sure if I agree and obviously that could be debated. I interviewed the Christian duo this afternoon (not sure who the interview will be for yet — possibly Blackplanet.com or Rockacandy.com). I asked them several questions, but I wanted to share a small excerpt from the interview.

I could not help but ask how they feel about their legendary gay following. Since they are supposed to be “young and hip” I wondered if they had a bit more of a progressive attitude. Lawd knows if you want to see a whole bunch of gay folks just turn on Bobby Jones Gospel! I took an “informal survey” and many people (straight and gay) said if they found out Mary Mary is anti-gay they would definitely not support them. Many said Mary Mary is truly on the borderline of secular music and receive airplay on urban radio right after a Beyonce song — so they obviously love God, but hopefully they did not think anything was wrong with homosexuality. I doubted it — and I was right.

Clay: I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but you have an extremely large gay following — how do you feel about homosexuality and having a massive gay following?

Erica: We are aware. Ummm… how do I feel about homosexuality? I feel how God feels about it, but I still love them. I don’t agree with the lifestyle, but I love them. They can come to the concert; I’m going to hug them just like I hug everybody else. They have issues and need someone to encourage them like everybody else — just like the murderer, just like the one full of pride, just like the prostitute — everybody needs God. What your struggle is may not be what my struggle is, but we all need Him. So, that’s what our music is about giving and God, not to condone the lifestyle or to say, Oh it’s okay, but not to bash — but just to give them God. I mean, I’m appreciative of all of our supporters and fans. Hopefully what their hearing in our music is my love for God.

Tina: You know, I think the fact that our music is very upbeat and works well in clubs — you know, I think that’s something that makes more people gravitate to it. Like Erica said, we don’t necessarily agree with the lifestyle, but we don’t pride ourselves on bashing. Everyone has things in their life that they need to correct, everybody has struggles, everybody has things that, maybe I should’ve done it this way, maybe I should’ve made this choice, you know, or whatever. Even though that’s the way we feel, we don’t bash, we don’t do that kind of thing and we embrace everybody who enjoys our music. Hopefully our music is impacting them in a way that if they see there’s some things in their life that’s not quite right and doesn’t align themselves with what the Bible says — hopefully our music impacts them in a way that makes them want to change it.

Although only an excerpt of the full interview, its easy to see why homosexuality is rampant in gospel music industry. And why there is little to no effort to speak truth about it within the ranks. Mary Mary’s mixed message of pop psychology and christianese only adds further confusion to the already confusing issue.

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31 Responses to “Mary Mary, ministry and mixed messages”

  1. Kyle July 22, 2008 at 5:28 pm #

    They are skirting the issue plain and simple to not offend their money stream. There is NOTHING more to say ………………………………………………….. Well! except maybe they still look very fine but that’s another topic entirely.

    Kyle

  2. prayrwarrior July 22, 2008 at 6:57 pm #

    While it is true they are attractive women, Kyle, I cannot align myself with their skirting the issue. The LORD od the Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination. It is a sin.
    “Hopefully what their hearing in our music is my love for God.”
    Wow. This was something to me. Hopefully?!? Well, I like some of MaryMary’s music, but it is kind of hard to hear their love for GOD over a secular artist’s track from the 70s. What passes for Gospel music nowadays is baffling to me. I would not say MaryMary is even a Gospel group; they and a lot of other groups I would call “inspirational”. How can you say you are a Gospel singer or group and rarely, if ever, mention the Name of JESUS on your CDs? They are, what I heard a local minister say, “pronoun psalmists”….”He”, “Him”, and “His”. Hello…HIS Name is JESUS!

  3. beckrl July 22, 2008 at 9:43 pm #

    The pressure seem to be too much for some, even in the gospel music area. One has to make a stand for Christ and the word of truth even if the world is against you. You know to be that Light unto the Darkness. So Mary,Mary says that they stand neutral not “bashing” anyone. What a shame.

    [we don’t necessarily agree with the lifestyle, but we don’t pride ourselves on bashing. Everyone has things in their life that they need to correct, everybody has struggles, everybody has things that, maybe I should’ve done it this way, maybe I should’ve made this choice, you know, or whatever. Even though that’s the way we feel, we don’t bash, we don’t do that kind of thing and we embrace everybody who enjoys our music]

  4. Elder Jimmy July 22, 2008 at 9:53 pm #

    Mary Mary’s very persona is a compromise. They often flaunt their cleavage in the faces of their audience and don’t always wear clothing that is “modest” and “becometh Holiness” (to quote Paul, the apostle). So I see no reason to expect them to be clear apologists on sexual conduct period. I am not implying that they are immoral in their own sexual behavior. I am saying that they don’t hold a high view of scripture as it relates to their often provacative appearance. I am sure Brother Kyle can bear witness to the detriment of breasts popping out while dancing around to shackles……very fine indeed! Go and pray, man. HA!

    You know a lot of these gospel “artists” are not real students of scripture. They love gospel music, the church, singing and carrying on (Ooops, I sound like my great-grandmother). They love the celebrity, the fame, the privilege, the money. Many have forgotten the very reason they are supposed to sing. “Worship GOD in spirit and Truth.” Worshipping GOD according to trends and poularity is more lucrative.

    Very many of their producers, writers, stylists, wardrobe people, back ground singers and atc. are gay or lesbian. Not only does the music fail to represent a biblical world view (listen to the words to heaven…”I’ve gotta get myself together….”) Their cheap idea of GOD”s grace and Christian living fails also. Sorry to be so long.

  5. EnochWalked July 22, 2008 at 10:03 pm #

    Pastor Foster,
    This statement by Tina says it all–”I think the fact that our music is very upbeat and works well in clubs — you know, I think that’s something that makes more people gravitate to it.” This is who is funding them, heavy rotation and being played in the clubs–they may say they love GOD, but GOD is not their source–the world is–plain and simple!

    3 Questions for the reading audience–Not to sound too deep or holier than thou, If a “Christian” song is played in the club and the world accepts it–does this mean that they are not salt, but that they have more “world” and “club” in them than they do Christ(Holiness, Reverence, Salt)

    Are these type of songs(My wife loves MaryMary-she says I am 37 going on 60-Smile) drawing men unto CHRIST or drawing men to themselves?

    Do these type of songs usher in the “Presence of the HOLY SPIRIT” or does it move men’s flesh(body parts, stomp your feet, shake your….)?

    When Kirk Franklin with god’s(I did this on purpose!) Property succeeded with “Stomp” and he had “Wordly Success” and acceptance and heavy rotation, it opened pandora’s box for our talented, “not necessarily anointed” singers and musicians.

    I was raised with the understanding, “If you can’t play it or sing it in the church, its of the world!” I remember vividly that my wife had to get approval from her hometown pastor over the songs she wanted sang and performed at our wedding in 2002–I really appreciated her pastor’s unwavering stance on keeping the sanctuary holy and undefiled.

  6. EnochWalked July 22, 2008 at 10:04 pm #

    I say Amen Elder Jimmy to your comments

  7. totaltransformation July 22, 2008 at 10:29 pm #

    I didn’t know that information about Mandisa.

  8. Rob July 22, 2008 at 11:31 pm #

    Thing is… when we do music like the world, it attracts the world and the people (carnal) of the world. All this rhythm and blues jazz, pop songs that stimulate to move and swing and pop…that contain the words “Jesus” and “God”, many define as gospel music…mainly because of the lyrics. Lyrics is the pathway many of these gifted artists use to convince others that their music is sent from God. But then you find out about the “Contemporary Queen of Gospel”, Yolanda Adams who sings “IMAGINE” by the ungodly BEATLES. “Imagine there’s no Heaven —- It’s easy if you try —No hell below us —- Above us only sky”

    It is obvious that “lyrics” is not the main point and purpose, for these gifted singers need only a stage and an audience for the forefront, while deeply buried in the background is the slipping away of conviction, commitment and dedication to abide in Christ, by proving faithful to Christ and HIM only…Not to their producers, not to their success, not to their audience, not to Satan.

    It’s no surprise to me that the “dance induced song Shackles” is played at the CLUB. Hey if I heard that song at some bash, I’d certainly be tempted in the flesh to do the electric slide and boogaloo, not so much thinking about the name Jesus mentioned in the song.

    Don’t be deceived!!! Just like people are not being healed by Todd Bently, people are not being saved through “Shackles” and other songs like it. Let’s just stick with the preaching of the word…”how shall they hear without a preacher?” Rom 10:14

    Remember the simple New Testament admonishments:

    Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

    Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

    FOR A GREAT READ…PLEASE, PLEASE go to LINK…

    http://www.nccg.org/242Art-Music.html

    I promise your eyes will be opened and you souls encouraged.

    Peace

  9. Job July 23, 2008 at 1:35 am #

    Our stuff is good in clubs?!?! Well, I guess this is still more reason why we Christians need to go back to the old hymns, and to lyrics that specifically talk about sin, the blood of Jesus Christ, and repentance. Somehow I think that such songs would not get such heavy rotation in sinner’s jukeboxes. Not saying that we should use music as a weapon and a wedge to drive people off … quite the contrary our music should be evangelistic! But the fact is that we should not be evangelizing them to a false Christ that does not require regeneration and holiness.

    As far as Mandisa goes, she has gone from being someone publicly associated with a Christian woman who runs a “straight camp” to bragging about having homosexual friends. I mean, did she actually imply that it is a sin to be overweight but not homosexual?

    And yes, Elder Jimmy, Mary Mary is but one of the MANY Christian and gospel female AND male acts that sell sex. And if you are selling sex, both heterosexuals AND homosexuals are going to buy it.

  10. journeytaker July 23, 2008 at 5:00 am #

    Job

    I completely agree! Lyrics that talk about sin, the blood, the cross, or…. OH MY! Jesus..Gasp! I am so glad my church still sings hyms! I am one of the musicians, and I visit a certain gospel music learning site and well they hymn subject is a hot one. Many feel like we don’t need to sing them anymore. One pastor asked a young musician not to have the praise and worship team sing all of the verses to a particular hymn because they were too graphic!

    This group is just an example of compromise plain and simple. I never liked their music at all! I guess I am not interested in women singing in clothes that are painted on or advertising everything they have. I also do not listen to Yolanda Adams for this same reason. I just belive we should be modest and not look like we are going to the Oscars with a plunging neckline etc.

    Flesh will always attract flesh and that is the crux of what we are seeing.

  11. Devon July 23, 2008 at 6:05 am #

    Oh Dear Lord, this is awful….how is it that our brethren in the public limelight are so threatened by a population base of about 1 percent (rough estimate of practicing gays)………

    If we cannot make a stand against this lifestyle now and other sinful actions, what happens when our rights as Christians in the Western World (I’m in Canada) are even more eroded…

    We all know where this is heading…

    My head is spinning…Mary Mary not making a stand, Yolanda Adams singing John Lennon’s godless imagine, Gospel Singer Joel Hemphill denies Jesus is God….

    Are these the days of apostasy???

    GCMW: Devon thanks, I placed a link to the Hemphill story. I like what James White said: “Sometimes wolves dont snarl, they sing.”

  12. john miller July 24, 2008 at 7:51 pm #

    I have watched, listend and made note of Mary Mary and if there is one thing that I am certain of it is thus, they are in this business for themselves! It is not about The Gospel, it is not about singing hope, it is not about declaring God’s sovereignty but it is all about them, their profile, their money and their fame. When Jesus was tempted of the devil he was offered, fame, power and wealth but he resisted. Mary Mary clearly conduct themselves in a manner that is designed to make men and lesbians lust after them. The showing of the clevage is deliberate and part of their wordly appeal

  13. Independent Conservative July 24, 2008 at 8:16 pm #

    And I thought this post was going to be about them claiming the Lord’s Name, while showing off their cleavage. (See the picture above again.) Oh, but that’s OK with them. And being homosexual is like just something somebody may want to consider doing differently to them.

    Actually I’m surprised they said they disagree with homosexual behavior in the slightest, but they were very slight about it. (Just enough they hoped not to upset saint or sinner.) As if homosexuality is not really an issue that should be spoken against. (Don’t want to “bash” you now…) I guess they don’t want anybody telling them that showing off their cleavage while claiming the Lord’s Name also sends a bad message. (I mean can they at least look godly and be modest in their promotional materials?)

    Nobody admonish anybody, just buy your Mary Mary CD and “party for jesus”…”disco jesus”, “in the club jesus”… :roll:

  14. gcmwatch July 24, 2008 at 8:24 pm #

    Mary Mary’s mixed messages are a mess.

    Forked tongue and speaking out of the side of your neck comes to mind.

    I still dont get why they feel they have to apologize and smooth over what God’s word says. Like Elder Jimmy said its probably because they dont know so they just insert all type of mary-maryisms to make it look like they do.

    Shame. No wonder the music called gospel has no power. They only intended for it to make people feel good and oh, make people dance in the gay clubs.

  15. EnochWalked July 25, 2008 at 1:20 am #

    Pastor Foster, I don’t know how it is down in “Hotlanta” but up here in DC, we finally last year got black gospel music on FM. Of course it sounds better than AM, but I was telling my wife today, the black gospel music scene sounds like R&B, rap-fusion from the late 80s and early 90s before I was saved! I know a worldly beat and rhythm from a sanctified sound(Smile)!

    When I became converted in 1997, the AM stations used to only play “holy ghost filled fire baptized, fire and brimstone preachers” and JESUS only songs that would glorify CHRIST first, draw you to HIM, get you through the storms of life, pull down strongholds and edify you! I never forget that in the summer of 1998 I was doing business in Richmond, VA and I heard a pastor preaching under such power and anointing that he led his listeners to do a simple prayer of deliverance by faith and I received the message and spoke the prayer by faith and the issue that I needed deliverance from, instantly while driving in my car I knew the habit was broken and it never returned again-Hallelujah!

    As you mentioned Pastor Foster, the music called gospel today has no power! I remember when in 2000-2001 when the AM stations became less “Holy” and less “Holy spirit-filled” both through the preachers and the singers. All you could hear was Prosperity preaching and songs that moved your flesh and not your spirit! The love of money and the pursuit of fame (versus winning souls for CHRIST) has corrupted what was once a cherished and sanctified part of the black church.

    A lot of holy ministries/musicians have been persecuted and downright rejected because of this leaven and are not able to afford the “airtime” because the musicians/gospel stations/gospel music industry wanted to be accepted in the world!

    GCMW: Well said, EW! Times have changed, but certainly not for the better.

  16. God's child July 25, 2008 at 5:30 pm #

    I don’t think mary mary are not answering the question, I believe we all can see that they believe what the Bible says literally, that homosexuality is a sin, just as lieing is a sin, just as killing, just as adultry, just as etc. Living for God is totally about have a relationship with him and sharing his love to others. Mary Mary was not tryinig to be fake, only showing love, as real christians are suppose too. As well, I know it was not the Gay community who has kept Mary Mary sales afloat, all credit goes to Christ alone- not MAN.

  17. Leidell July 25, 2008 at 8:07 pm #

    I just get annoyed when I hear this. Where is the ministry in all of this? It’s difficult for me to listen to some gospel and CCM when artists are looking like the world. It’s no surprised of the compromise in this industry…”we don’t want to lose our fans if we stand for what God wants us to stand for.” At one time, I dreamed of being a CCM recording artist. But I do not want to be packaged as something that I am not; nor do I want to compromise my stand with Christ just to keep the records selling…am I making sense?

  18. Geesh July 26, 2008 at 6:29 am #

    What is so wrong about Mary Mary stating that they show love to all people? Isn’t that what we as Christians are supposed to be doing? What would we rather them say? “Oh we love heterosexuals, but not homosexuals, and because they’re in ‘that lifestyle’, then we don’t want them buying our music.’ That would be lame and so totall against what we are to represent as believers and that is LOVE.

  19. Keiko July 28, 2008 at 7:15 am #

    As Christians, we are so quick to judge people and claim we are obeying the word.

    GCMW: How do you qualify “quick”? And what is the length of time, we are to discern and research before we judge?

    If Mary Mary and Kirk F’s music is secular, the responses on here do not match the example of Christ. We have to understanding why scripture was written. Corinthians says not to associate with a “sinning believer”. OK, but Jesus associate with prostitues and tax collectors which would be considered “big time” sinners. How do we know that a prostitute didn’t help fund Jesus ministry (read Luke 7:36-8:3)

    GCMW: You are attempting to bypass the scripture’s clear meaning with your own interpretation. According to 1 Cor 5, a “sinning believer” who rejects repentance and a “big time” sinner are completely different. What’s more our post called Mary Mary neither.

    We do not know who the “many other women” are in this passage.

    GCMW: No we don’t and neither do you. So at best your supposition is theory and personal conjecture.

    Corinthians is the separation of pagan worship (idolatry) from true Christian worship. The new Corinthian believers were bringing pagan worship into the church and they were not to associate with them, to not pollute worship of the true and living God.
    Style of worship, music, etc. is irrelevant. No current Gospel music style would have passed as ‘godly’ 50 years ago. (In addition, there is no such thing as worldly and gospel music as far as the music is concerned. Music is a compilation of notes. What makes music gospel is the lyrics. Remember it is GOSPEL – the Good News music.

    GCMW: Please cite scripture which supports how you arrived at that conclusion. And it seems you are contradicting your own premise. If Corinthians was about separating pagan worship from true worship, that would mean that forms of music used in pagan worship could not possibly be true worship.

    If you go old skool with Billy Preston or Philip Bailey, their sounds were the same on gospel and secular and we know we loved both. Philips’ high notes in his gospel songs and old ETW jams-all were Philip Bailey. Let’s keep it real!)

    GCMW: Keep it real? Since when did Philip Bailey’s voice or the notes of his songs become criteria for holiness?

    Preachers, we need to STUDY our Bibles and stop reading them at face value. We are quick to use a passage out of context to make a point.

    GCMW: Again, what’s the definition of “quick”? And how do you know how long it took someone to arrive at their conclusion? What about your comment? Isnt it a quick judgment? Wouldnt that make you a hypocrite for telling someone to stop doing something you are doing? And what parts of the Bible should a preacher not take at face value? If you could provide a complete list, that would be helpful.

    Furthermore, how dare we criticize Mary Mary for not believing like we do. They said they disagree with homosexuality but will love the sinner. HELLO!!! Isn’t that what Jesus taught and modeled? Do you want them to stand a preach a sermon? That is not what they do. They sing.

    GCMW: So singing the gospel is not like preaching it? When you sing it, there’s a different standard? Where in the bible does it tell us that singers are not required to uphold the same gospel as the preacher?

    Now, it is easy to criticize from a far, but I know Erica, Tina and Kirk personally. I have seen them minister out of the limelight when there are no cameras. They are normal Christians like the rest of us working out their salvation and trying to lead others to Christ. They are called to reach into lives (especially youth) that most us won’t EVER touch, partly because we don’t want to.

    GCMW: That’s another hypocritical assertion on your part. You claim that for someone to criticize Mary Mary without personally knowing them is wrong. Yet your comment is full of criticism (and quick judgement) of people who you do not personally know. And are you saying that Mary Mary has a limelight ministry and a behind closed doors ministry? Why is that? Why cant they be the same whether in the limelight or not?

    Kirk’s ministry alone has gotten many young men out of gangs and stop selling drugs. How do I know? Because some of these same kids have eaten and had Bible study at my kitchen table. It is easy to stand on the outside and judge. But the judging needs to stop. It’s time to repent.

    GCMW: There are atheists and muslims who help get people out of gangs and off drugs, so that is no real accomplish in the big scheme of things. Salvation is not about getting people to stop selling drugs and not be in gangs. That’s a good work, but salvation is not about good works. As you said, let’s keep it real. Please be more careful about criticizing. Sadly most of what you have written in defense of your friends does not help their case at all.

  20. dawkinswatch July 29, 2008 at 6:37 pm #

    Look,

    Why do we not start a small independent label which is gay free, Look as long as the music is quality it can sell like Jazz albums do?

    We can sell i on that attribut, Holy Gospel.

    Gospel audiences are tired of having the music mixed uo with crazy lifestyles.

  21. Grasp The Truth August 6, 2008 at 6:39 am #

    Some of those good old hymns were sang by homosexuals too. It’s not just the music and the lyrics it’s the spirit within the person singing. A lot of artists start off good then want the fame and accolades and leave their first love. Music can not bring salvation no matter what kind.

    And as far as homosexuals running the gospel music industry , that is not the only industry they are trying to have control over, include politics education etc.

    You have to be willing to sell out for Christ , count up the cost and lose everthing for His sake and many are not willing to do that so we compromise and ask for forgiveness from Sweet Jesus.
    But… God will not tbe mocked.

  22. naturalsystah August 6, 2008 at 3:17 pm #

    Wow, it’s symptomatic of the age, where people are coy about saying what’s right or wrong – “don’t juuudge” is the mantra!

  23. DiggyJ August 8, 2008 at 3:30 pm #

    I can’t speak for Mary Mary, but my personal conviction is that I will love my neighbor as love myself (Matthew 19:19, 22:39, Mark 12:31-33, Luke 10:25-37) and that includes the homosexual, the adulterer, the fornicator, the liar, the thief, etc. Sin is sin — God doesn’t price tag it and neither should we. We should take a stand against sin in all its forms and, in love, point out sin to those who are involved in it. In some cases, it make take some time, energy and effort, but we have to literally love the hell out of them. They may not be fully ready to embrace the truth, but we don’t stop ministering to them and praying for them. Only when they absolutely reject the Word of God and indicate that they want no part of it are we to shake the dust from our feet (Matthew 10:14). I’ve also seen the “don’t judge” thing a couple of times. We all know right from wrong — a moral compass is built into us and we have the Word of God to guide us. Jesus said this in John 12:48: “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him — the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.” I could be wrong, but my understanding of judging folks is this, from Matthew 7:1-6: I’m not merciless toward others when I know they are in sin because I have a past, too (and, in a lot of cases, a present). Call a spade a spade; call sin what it is — SIN, but don’t kill the people in the process.

  24. Teach4Christ September 11, 2008 at 1:23 am #

    Amen DiggyJ,
    Come on people where is the love, where is the Christian compassion. We don’t know their hearts nor do we know anything about what God has called them to. It is so easy to sit back and look at this person that you don’t know and insist that they live up to a level of perfection that you can’t even live up to. Maybe God is dealing with them. Maybe they are fearful of how they will be percieved, which is not an excuse but a reality. Who knows what you would do in that situation. What they need is our prayers and not criticisms. If you don’t like them don’t cpurchase their music. Sanctification is not instant it is a process. Besides, homosexuality has been in gospel music way before Mary Mary and Kirk Franklin were making music. Almost all of the old time singers had some sort of sexual misconduct whether homo or hetero. This is NOT new. I’m a preacher’s kid and I’ve been around “Church Culture” all my life. I wasn’t until I went to college that I really understood what a real relationship with Christ was. Unfortunately in the Black church we have created this myth about “Havin’ Church” and it has left so many of our children lost without a real understanding of the basics of salvation. We’ve equate salvation with shouting screaming running around the church and having good choirs and hooping ministers. We do all this yet no one is saved, no one is walking with the Lord, no one understands what having a growing relationship with Christ is really about. It’s a crisis and it should lead us first to repentence, then to real evangelism, and discipleship. Two words the music ministry may not want to hear. We all should be ashamed. Instead of looking at them, exam yourself. When was the last time someone wanted know Christ because of you?

    GCMW: T4C, youre a little pessimistic arent you? No one is saved? No one is walking with the Lord? No one understands? How could you possibly know that unless you have been a 10 year member of every church in America? Your comments are a mixture of church hate and bad theology. Im not sure even you know what youre actually talking about.

  25. Elder Jimmy September 11, 2008 at 6:35 pm #

    Teach4Christ,
    “Tis true, we don’t know anyone’s hearts. So we are instructed to judge the “fruit”. By their frUIt you shall know them. We can certainly tell the difference between thigs and thistles. This is not an Either issue nor an OR issue here; it is BOTH.

    What you say about black church culture is true enough. THAT’s why we need to hold high the standard for doctrine and practice. We teach others through PRECEPT and EXAMPLE. It takes more than compassion to win the folk to Christ and it certainly takes more than music. The 6th chapter of Mark says that Jesus saw the crowds, he had compassion on them and he taught them. If we are to be compassionate like Christ we must do the same. He had compassion and he healed; He had compassion and he fed and he taught them. Healing will fade, food leavesbut the Word of Our LORD abides forever.
    Foolishness must be challenged by correction.

    This can be clearly discerned: When I give testimony to being a follower of Christ and I am vague on what Christ has said, my fruit is suspect. If I am a follower of Christ and I am provacative in my stage presence; my fruit is suspect.

    Lastly, sanctification is surely a process. Therefore novices, the unlearned and unwise should not be involved in ministry until they until they have learned Christ. Having a beautiful voice and a phenom range makes you ready for the mucis industry but not necessarily for music ministry..

  26. Paul September 16, 2008 at 8:45 pm #

    I think love finally won on this post….

  27. M.D. November 21, 2008 at 4:23 pm #

    How can any of you say that Mary Mary skirted around the issue… they said they believe the way GOD believes about it. What better answer is there than that? Did yall want them to say all gays are going to burn in the pits of hell? What ever happened to there being no condemnation in Christ… that’s what they are doing. They are leaving the convicting job to the Holy Spirit. That’s right we have a Holy Spirit to convict us on things, and the great thing about the Holy Spirit is that when he convicts us it is in a loving way that builds us up and provides a way of escape. That to me is what No condemnation in Christ means. If we are not very careful and not sensitive to God’s leading Christians can come off in a condemning manner, as seen in many of these posts. When Christ saw the woman brought before him caught in the act of adultery he did not condemn her. He instead showed all of them that they all have fallen short of the Glory of God!!! And he provided her a way of escape. I know she was convicted but not condemned, isn’t that what Mary Mary is doing? Taking a stance on the lifestyle but loving the people in spite of their flaws as God does to us everyday. I feel like we as Christians can easily appear just like those group of people with that woman…. Looking down on her ready to kill and never stopping to think when we were in that same situation!! We as Christians need to show compassion and understanding not blame. I think the best way for us to affect change in people’s lives is to live a Godly life and show them the right way to live instead of always pointing out where they are doing wrong.
    As far as their music goes… they are reaching people that the church obviously isn’t and won’t. They are going out into the world and preaching the gospel. Please don’t judge or criticize people doing God’s work. If you have a problem with how they are reaching the masses take it up with God. He’s the one who can change hearts not any of you.

  28. Nichole December 30, 2008 at 8:46 pm #

    I truly feel sorry for those who feel that it is okay to be “bisexual/ homosexual”…Maybe they should read their Bibles more often…I mean of course I still do love them because the Bible says we should love everyone…We have to reach out to those who do not know better….GOD MADE MARRAIGE FOR A MAN AND A WOMAN….SEX IS ALSO MEANT FOR A COUPLE (MAN AND WOMAN) WHO ARE MARRIED….Homosexuality is nothing but lustfulness and those people are confused…The Devil makes them think that it is okay to accept homosexuality, but IT IS A SIN….For example Read in the Bible about the cities of Sodom and Gommorah….We have to pray for those Christians who do not want to believe the entire Bible….those Christians who pick and chose what they want to believe and follow in the Bible are truly mistaken…YOU MUST BELIEVE THE ENTIRE BIBLE>>>GOD does not want YOU to pick and chose what you want to believe…You have to believe ALL of His Word because He KNOWS what is RIGHT and what we should believe.

  29. Angela Austin February 18, 2009 at 12:18 am #

    Awesome and biblical response M.D. I was so discouraged reading reply after reply that was completely devoid of love. I remember where God found me and I am grateful for every act of obedience over the years, but I am still far from perfect.

    Do you know what the worst sin is in man’s eyes? The one we don’t do. However, ALL sin is an abomination to God. All have sinned. Hate the sin, not the sinner. Can’t do it if we don’t first love. How quick we are to hate and how very slow to love. When we, our brothers and sisters in Christ, and yes, even our enemies, struggle in sin, our hearts should break and we should be moved to pray with and for them and ourselves.

  30. gcmwatch February 18, 2009 at 6:39 pm #

    Wow, sounds just like people in the world. Dont judge…all have sinned… stop hatin…nobody’s perfect, etc, etc…

    Its as if nothing else in the Bible exists.

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  1. News that you can use 7/25 « The Church of Jesus Christ - July 25, 2008

    [...] bible really religious extremism? You know what they say, only in Uzbekistan. Here, we simply have anti-religious extremism, especially in dealing with the gay agenda. Speaking of the gay agenda, guess who Rick Warren is [...]

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