Frances Swaggart refutes gcm doctrine

17 Dec

fswaggartFrances Swaggart, the wife of Jimmy Swaggart, has what appears a very sound analysis refuting the gay christian movement’s false claims about “reconciling sexuality with spirituality”. I’m not sure how long its been posted, but its good to know not everyone is going the mushy-affirming route.

Yes, Jimmy Swaggart has done and said some incredibly foolish (and sinful) things in the past and we’re aware of that. So, I ask that you refrain from any sidebar tangents on that.

On her website/blog Frances and Friends, Mrs. Swaggart has posted a three part series on homosexuality, with the last dealing with the gay christian claims. She says religious homosexuals are very confused about their history:

 …it is actually quite ironic that many homosexuals accuse religious communities of being their greatest enemies because the true origins of homosexuality are very closely tied to religion. At one time, “religion” was their greatest friend. The earliest accounts of homosexual behavior are, in fact, found within the confines of the ancient pagan religions.  And, if you look closely, you can see that this association has subtlety carried on to this very day. “

Ive said the same thing many times. This contemporary gay christian movement has deep roots in cultic idolatry and still carries that spirit to this day.

I really liked Mrs. Swaggart’s point where she argues that true Christains dont need to “christianize” their lives. Christians are just Christians. That’s why we intentionally refer to the gcm as “gay christian” uncapitalized. Anytime you mix our faith with heresy it automatically becomes false. This is our way of noting that.

Frances and Friends on the web

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10 Responses to “Frances Swaggart refutes gcm doctrine”

  1. Tony December 17, 2008 at 9:00 pm #

    She is as credible as a cocaine-dealer turned propsperity pastor. As usual, she’s way off basis. Homosexuality is not an act or pretend orientation. Contrary to Swaggart, it isdeeply integrated into the complete personhood. Not a choice.

  2. Polycarp December 18, 2008 at 1:33 am #

    Tony’s argument is as credible as a murder’s pro-life argument. I do not approve of Swaggart, but it seems his wife has at least one good thing to say.

  3. Tony December 18, 2008 at 5:05 am #

    Polycarp, I’d like to see you wiggle your way out of your elementary parallel. Explain your comment its nonsensical.

  4. yashoresh December 18, 2008 at 12:59 pm #

    Tony & Polycarp, let remain peaceful – y’all really look like you’re about to strive.

    The article is pointng out that though she might not always be right, she does make a good point that homosexuality does have historical ties to religion – pagan religion, not Christianity. It seems like you just might have slightly mis-understood the article Tony. Polycarp, you tried to point this out, but your choice words were borderline offensive.

    God Bless

  5. Tony December 18, 2008 at 8:52 pm #

    Yashoresh,

    Thanks for your commnts. However, as a homosexual who believes he was born gay, telling me of the alledged historic roots of homosexuality in pagan idoltry means nothing. I acknowledge Jesus Christ, he is Lord, even if you disagree with me, he died for me too. I find this post to be highly offensive …In a very sneaky backdoor infiltration, Swagart intimates that gays are idoloters or have some thinking based in paganism. In all fairness, this alleged history is brand new to me. Paganism and certainly idolatry are the very last ( and I mean last) things on my mind. I dont know where she was going with this. But her point is moot because the intimation is not only beyond offensive it bares no solitary grain of significance towards the gay debate. Many of us are struggling to be Christian to find our way in God… acknowledging somethings amiss as it relates to sexuality… but simultaneously proclaiming we didn’t chooose it. So ignoring false prophets like the SWAGGARTS and getting to the core…. How could God allow us to be so made … only to damm us. This is my issue. Assume, I didn’t choose to be gay and assist me from that perspective.

    Thanks,
    Tony

  6. Growing in Grace December 18, 2008 at 10:27 pm #

    Tony said:

    Thanks for your commnts. However, as a homosexual who believes he was born gay, telling me of the alledged historic roots of homosexuality in pagan idoltry means nothing.

    Then why post on this topic? You’ve already decided it means nothing to you. Seems you want to be combative for the sake of being combative.

    Tony said:

    In all fairness, this alleged history is brand new to me.

    Then how can you conclude it’s worthless? Wouldn’t hurt to do a little research to make an informed decision.

    Tony said:

    This is my issue. Assume, I didn’t choose to be gay and assist me from that perspective.

    The assumption you are asking about is in direct contract with scripture. You are right to ask for assistance but you seem to only want it on your terms; assuming you are born gay. Any way you could just open your mind without any preconceived notions? Could you even believe you aren’t born gay?

  7. Tony December 18, 2008 at 11:06 pm #

    Growing in Grace,

    I am very open to truth. I also disagree that stating the truth of my existence doesnt necessarily contradict scripture. I have tried to be straight because agaiin, I am rational and can see my sexuallity to my dismay is seemingly disordered. But that doesn’t take away from the reality that I exist. I am not trying to dellute myself about it, however, I am just endeavoring to understand God’s plan for this in light of my truth. The bible does say all things work together for the good of them who love the Lord. I just wonder how God is going to get glory out of making me gay only that I have to undue it. What is interesting about sexuality is that one need not guess where they are; You know immediately if you are attracted to members of the opposite sex. I am expressedly clear that im gay with zero attraction to women. I grieve in this because I have many sibblings who have wives and kids and I can’t have that because Im not straight. I here straight christians say all day long you an abomination, your repulsive in the sight of God, yet none offer any real solution to the gay debacle. Because they refuse to be open to the fact we were born disordered, they cant legitimately help us. Pastor DL posted something rather remarkable on genetic abnormalities. People are born intersexed, people are born with a predisposition for alchoholism, people are born with all manner of genetic error. People are also born with down syndrome. I dont understand why the church cant see people are born gay. I think this will help the whole issue of how to deal with sexuality. I am very liberal as you no doubt know. However, contrary to many of my liberal GCM theologians, I think gay people are born gay, if you will disordered. I’ve see errant ministries like EXGAY which provide no legitimate exit strategy out of homosexuality because their premise is partially flawed. If homosexuality is to be healed, it must be approached with honesty not the dillusion that gay people are ‘pretending to be gay’ or gay because they decided to be sexually deviant or immoral.

    Thanks,
    Tony

  8. Growing in Grace December 19, 2008 at 9:08 pm #

    Tony:

    Brother, we are all born into iniquity. I do not question when you believe your attrations for the same sex began. I truly don’t believe that’s the point. Everyone born into the flesh desires sin but we as Christians experience a rebirth..

    KJV
    3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    Just like a baby, when you are reborn in Christ, you have to be retrained to think and act according to His will. Everything you thought you knew is now gone and you only rely on his teachings and the conviction of the Holy Spirit for your life. It seem that you have decided that, for your sexuality, you will hold on to what your first life has dictated; a life born into iniquity.

    The argument I was born this way is irrelevant no matter what the sin is. I believe the minute we decide which of our desires of flesh belongs to our “personhood” we deny our salvation. You’re obviously a very intelligent person; but your intelligence measures nothing against God. It seems that you’ve decided that this part of His law is wrong because of the way you feel. I’m sure you think murder, theft, and lieing are all wrong and those are His laws as well. Picking and choosing seems to imply I know what’s best for me and therefore can determine what I should or shouldn’t be doing. Please don’t let your intelligence and what you think you know get in between your relationship with Christ.

    In this world today, it’s very difficult. Temptation is the norm and everyday we hear people telling us to do what we like; do what makes you feel good. It’s hard but it’s a process. You don’t have to abandon who you are. Your sexuality is not who you are. It’s an action that you do.

    So start with the fact as you said Jesus is your Lord. Your Lord says that sex is between one man and one woman in marriage. Neither you nor I fit into that scenario, so we shouldn’t be having sex…period. When your flesh desires it, pray and I will be praying for you. It’s an easy step to take. In the meantime, use all of the energy to read and study your Word and pray and see how God starts changing you.

    God Bless You

  9. Tony December 20, 2008 at 5:43 am #

    Can someone tell me the significance of Frances Swaggart associating homosexual theological identity or even sexual identity with paganism? What significance does that bring? Is she suggesting that homosexuality “emerged” out of paganism? I’m not trying to be funny. I just don’t understand where she was going at all.

    Thanks,
    Tony

  10. Teresa January 23, 2009 at 5:43 am #

    Dear Tony,

    I hope you listened to Mrs. Swaggart’s program today. Her son (and a Pastor also) Donnie Swaggart had a beautiful solution for your problem.

    If you haven’t listened to it, try downloading it. Today’s date is Jan. 22,2009.

    I am praying for you and all other’s seeking for the truth.
    Teresa

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