The homosexual demon question

31 May


10 minute version of the service  located here.

After viewing this video, I’d like to ask you two questions (1) do you think there is a “homosexual demon” and (2) from what you see, is this young man demon possessed?  I get asked this question frequently and just wanted to gauge what you know/believe.

Update: Just to clarify my own position, I do not believe there is a homosexual demon per se. I do believe demons exist as per the scriptures, and I do believe that some homosexuals have demon (s), just like some heterosexuals have the same. What I’m not quite convinced of is a singular  “homosexual demon”. Of course if you disagree, feel free to state your beliefs.

I think that what is going on in the video is unsettling and unbiblical in many ways.

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105 Responses to “The homosexual demon question”

  1. toe May 31, 2009 at 8:42 pm #

    Absolutely, there is a spirit. I have been delivered from homosexuality. The enemy started planting the seeds when I was younger. This lesbian coach had me be her assistant for years when I was in grade school.

    When I had moved into middle school, after dealing with male boys bullying me physically, verbally, and sexually…I met this spirit. I thought it was my imaginary friend. She made me feel strong when I always felt little, hurt, demeaned and overlooked. I could always bring her up. Music always made her appear. I knew her name, face, and appearance. She was half man/half woman. And for some reason, I was too young to think anything was wrong with that…With years passing–(i’m trying to shorten this story), I finally started seeking out this lifestyle in high school. This spirit now had manifested; and was trying to push me to come out and confess until the praying intervention of pastors, mother, friends (they didn’t even know my condition)–I finally surrendered to God and gave up lifestyle…Two years later, an evangelist came to my church; even though I was living a saved life, she touched me in a prayer line for people with lust. She didn’t lay hands on me; she just barely touched me, because God’s power was so great that revival.

    That night, I dreamed what I thought was an imaginary friend, had angrily stormed out of the airport mad at me. I hadn’t seen her, my imaginary friend, in years and wondered what had happened to her. But in that dream, the Lord showed me, that it was a demonic spirit adn apparently was hanging around even when I thought I had overcome, to get back in.

  2. Brett May 31, 2009 at 8:53 pm #

    Your not serious are ? that is the stupidest most most disgusting pile of ignorance I have ever seen. Gay Demons? Possessed ? the only ting possessing that kid is some fat ignorant people with the desire to bring people down to their level of stupidity, jesus christ what is wrong with people?

    GCMW: Brett, yes it is a serious question. You may be right on the ignorance, but let the discussion bear it out whether it is or not.

  3. Vaughn May 31, 2009 at 8:56 pm #

    I couldn’t/wouldn’t stay up under this nonsense for nothing in the world.

    The power that these are coveting comes by prayer and fasting;

    Mar 9:28
    And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
    Mar 9:29
    And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
    Act 16:18
    And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

    My problem with the modern day exorcists is that they don’t know the meaning of immediately or straightway they were healed. They like to conduct/perform ceremonial type exorcisms, which I think are wrong!

    If that’s your business, why can’t you do this in a private setting, if you are not of the Lord, and you come up against those (demons) that are more powerful than you, you might have an Acts 19 type of a moments, seven sons of [one] Sceva, who were overcome (so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.).

    If someone is truly sick then let him call for the elders;
    Jam 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

    Sounds to me like someone is being summoned.

  4. Rob May 31, 2009 at 9:17 pm #

    1) No, and I don’t think there is even biblical evidence in support of the idea.

    2) No. All I see is a young man being exploited by a cult of superstitious lunatics.

  5. Gwen Richardson May 31, 2009 at 9:20 pm #

    I know that the word of God says that, as believers, we can cast out demons in the name of Jesus. I have not personally witnessed this being done, but I do believe it is possible and I know of people who say they have an anointing for this.

    I do not believe that homosexuals have any more demons than the rest of us. We are all sinners and all of us have issues we are dealing with. Some of us cannot control ourselves with adultery, alcoholism, gambling, lying, stealing, gluttony and all manners of sins. The main difference is that, other than homosexuals, those of us that are dealing with other sins have not organized and petitioned the government to make our sins legal or sanctioned by law.

    Although gay individuals claim Christians are singling them out for ridicule, they are really singling out themselves, and Christians are compelled to respond. If people who were committing adultery were petitioning the government to make the relationship with their mistress (in the case of a male spouse) to be equivalent to their husband-wife relationship and that the mistress had the same standing and rights and the wife, then I would be against that too.

    Thus, my answer is that yes, there can be a homosexual demon, just as there can be demons for other sins. Do I believe all practicing homosexuals are possessed by a demon? The answer is no.

    I also believe that, even if a demon is cast out, it is up to the individual to exercise his/her faith to repent and stay away from the sin that has taken control. No one else can do this for them, not even a person who is anointed to cast out demons. As in the case of an alcoholic, for example, unless the alcoholic wants to change, all of the love, faith and confessions by their loved ones will not fully work until the individual uses his/her faith to change.

  6. gcmwatch May 31, 2009 at 9:50 pm #

    Toe, thanks for your testimony. We celebrate your freedom with you!
    Question: could that have been a “familiar spirit” and not a “homosexual demon”?

  7. Solphivyae Rose Thunderword-Cohen June 1, 2009 at 1:41 am #

    I don’t believe in such a thing as a ‘homosexual demon’ because if there is one then there’s one for all of the other sins, be it pornagraphy, fornication, stealing, lying, excessive shopping/hoarding, greed, etc…

    Violent scenes such as the above is what nightmares are made of and was used to terrify me as a child. This so-called casting out of demons is straight-up mental terrorism for all involved, it’s a dangerous game which can destroy minds, and taint the image of God in the minds of many.

    Now, do I believe in demons, you bet I do. Negative influences abound whether via the media and through human actions.

    I feel that with bible study, prayer, and professional pastoral support one can deal effectively with any sin, regardless of what it may be… God’s grace is sufficient for all.

    Thank you in advance for reading.

    Rose

  8. rogers June 1, 2009 at 2:07 am #

    I would like to agree with Gwen and the others. They are likely to have no more demons than christians who are heterosexual. But yes, there is a homosexual demon. Since I was five years old, I’ve had interactions with the spirit world even though I am saved and baptized with the holy ghost…several people have told me that I have the gift of spiritual discernment. And from my experience of walking with God these fifteen years, for every sin (whether of the body, mind, emotions) there is a demonic spirit attached to. As soon as you commit that sin, they show up.

    I have had situations recently, when I was at work and decided to steal or look at the mail of my coworker during non-work hours, a spirit of darkness immediately walked up to me…I tried to rebuke it. But it didn’t leave. When I put the letter back and repented for the sin of theft, I told the demon to leave and it did…they are attraced to deeds of darkness, whatever they may be…

    But yet, even though a homosexual demon is cast out, there is still a need to have teaching like this ministry does. You know they need a certain type of discipleship in order to have full deliverance and maintain freedom.

    And actually, personally, I have been delivered of demons and not have had to even have people apply the techniques in the video or any type of force. But sometimes intercession is required. One time the holy spirit led me to cast out a spirit (the spirit of fear) inside of me and it took thirty minutes, after growling, choking me, sissing like a snake, before it actually left…so I am not against these attempts..it’s just a matter of being led by God.

  9. toe June 1, 2009 at 2:12 am #

    My understanding is that a familiar spirit, is one that tries to mimic either the holy spirit or someone that you know (like your mother or friend) in order to deceive or gain your trust to eventually injure you.

    This spirit–which I didn’t know was homosexual at the time–was not like anything I had ever seen as a person. I couldn’t even describe it…extremely beautiful, but was a woman masquerading as a man and as a child–it was every enticing and made me feel powerful…until I realized that it would no longer come at my beck and call but showed up when it wanted to and answered to its name when it wanted to… but then again I don’t know…

  10. rhonda June 1, 2009 at 2:57 am #

    There is no biblical reference of a homosexual demon.
    The bible says sexual immorality is a “ working of the flesh ”

  11. Mark June 1, 2009 at 3:44 am #

    I don’t need or really want to watch the vid – and I haven’t. I think that what is going on in the video is unsettling unbiblical in many ways. and I trust your judgement Pastor DL – I need no more evidence.

    That said – there is no “homosexual demon” – those who think there is – have bought into an utter lie.

    No man battleing sin need anything but the word of God. If a Christian singles out “gay” folks as being any different than any other sinner, it is that “christian” that is in error and in need of repentance.

    The sole purpose of Miracles and Signs were to establish apostolic credentials – 2 Cor. 12:12 – The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.

    If all believers were able to preform miracles Paul would have had no reason to say that it was a True sign of apostleship. The apostles had a unique authority and ministry. The apostles had personally seen the Lord and had been taught by Him. Does anyone today have these credentials today? Answer – NO.

    Paul nor any other ever “rebuked” Satan, they pursued holiness and obedience until death – living faith. We are to present ourselves as living sacrifices to God, set apart to God, and totally “transformed” wearing the armor of God everyday and under all circumstances – Ephesians 6:11 and 13.

    We have never had authority over Satan or demonic forces – only God does!

  12. Gwen Richardson June 1, 2009 at 3:58 am #

    Mark:
    There is scripture in the gospel of Luke that states that the “spirits are subject to” the saints and also that “I give you power to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall by any means hurt you.”

    Most interpretations have applied these to all Christian believers, and I agree with this interpretation. You seem to be saying that only the disciples had this authority. I agree that all were not called to be apostles, but the Bible does not say that this was limited to the disciples only.

    One thing about the Bible is that there are many interpretations of scripture. I don’t believe that God would want the body of Christ to be powerless to deal with Satan, nor would he want us to have to go to an apostle for authority that we have ourselves. Suppose the person cannot get to an apostle? Do they just wait or allow the demonic forces to overtake them? Just something to think about.

  13. GNP22 June 1, 2009 at 5:54 am #

    I knew someone years ago who claimed he had the “gay demon” cast out of him at church, the choking, coughing, spitting, and all that. He was seemingly zealous after the things of God and we became friends. Later in the friendship (strictly platonic), he told me he shared his past with his “saved” wife, and it was all down hill from there. He thought he was being led by God to share his struggle and that it would somehow stregthen his marriage, but he was never more wrong. His wife was suspicious of him ever since. When we were christian friends, she suspected me of being after her husband and would quote scriptures like “being delivered over to satan for the destruction of the flesh.” I think that was just another way of saying “stay away from my husband!” Truthfully, it would have been great christian fellowship if not for her paranoia (I was NOT after her husband in that manner)…well, I digress; but this person eventually left the church, left his wife, after all that writhing and spitting and rolling on the floor. Oh, and he went back (unfortunately) into the same-sex lifestyle. I haven’t seen him in over 15 years. I hope he’s still alive and is rededicated to God. After saying all of that, I don’t know if it’s a demon or if it’s the confusion of God-given passions of our sexuality and walking after the flesh and not after the spirit. I personally am saved and spirit-filled and often still fight the proclivity towards same sex, but I do not act on it, and haven’t done so for many years. I know the Lord is in my life and feel that it’s because of him I stand at all. I can’t explain a lot of things. I don’t know why I would even want to commit such things anyway; but one thing I am sure of is God’s love and forgiveness in Christ, and I never have to question that.

  14. Michael June 1, 2009 at 1:22 pm #

    In this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ikpgBw-XM&feature=channel_page Derick Price says that the greatest entrance for demons is involvement in the occult. Can a human be possessed by a demon/s? We all know the answer to that question but what are demons and why do they seek embodiment. Homosexuals say they were born homosexual and that it is genetic but we as Christians rule out the supernatural and its effect even on the unborn.
    Being a Christian means we are at war and I think Christians take this fact all too lightly. We can disagree on many areas but not about the war for souls and the many devices the devil uses.

  15. Mark June 1, 2009 at 1:48 pm #

    Gwen – think about what you just said for a minute:
    ” I don’t believe that God would want the body of Christ to be powerless to deal with Satan, nor would he want us to have to go to an apostle for authority that we have ourselves. Suppose the person cannot get to an apostle? Do they just wait or allow the demonic forces to overtake them?

    Man is not powerless to deal with Satan – God has always had Satan under His control, and futhermore, God has taken care of our sin problem on the Cross.

    Man does not need to get to anyone to be restored. If any one is “demonized” – the word of God is all they need to hear “repent and believe!” If it be God’s will they will be healed. Man has never had power over the forces of darkness – only God does. Nor should we attribute our very sin nature (sexual sins included) to the work of demons. We are sinners in need of God’s grace. His word is sufficient – not some demon exocists exercise performed by a “special” person.

    Demons know who God’s children are and they have no power over us – none! If God allows some one (always an unbeliever) to be tortured by demons, it is His will and only He may restore that person and the only weapon we (saints) have is His word.

  16. KEITH June 1, 2009 at 1:57 pm #

    I agree. I feel there isn’t a homosexual demon per se but it is a familiar spirit that seems to go after certain sin. One being greed. Most men of power get so high up that greed takes over them and they must please the flesh. All sin opens up doors for demon possesion. When a person is molested or sexually abused that opens up a person for demonic possession. Its almost like a cycle. Only the spirit of God can break these curses and demonic strongholds. We must not tolerate any type of sin and we must meet it at the door. I noticed that the devil cn’t create anything so he trys to take what the Creator has already made and defile it. We were made in the image of God so everything that the devil does is anti creation. Being a part of sin is also being made into the image of Satan. I know we mess up sometimes but the key to that is to repent. The devil doesn’t want you to repent he wants you to accept his image. Homosexuality is in the image of Satan just like all sin and it must be stopped. Pray people of God Pray!

  17. ReRe June 1, 2009 at 2:21 pm #

    GCMW,

    I am with you. I don’t believe there is a “homosexual demon”, either. I don’t think that demons are of one particular sin, like “murdering demons”, “pimp demons”, “prostitute demons”, “thieving demons”, “cussing demons” (doesn’t make sense). Satan and his demons hate all that is righteous, and whatever they can tempt or influence us to do that ‘s unrighteous then that is what they’ll do. They keep “pushing buttons” until they find the right one. People are finding it easier to say “the devil made me do it” and not “forgive me, Father, for I-I-I have sinned”. More often than not, we are not confessing that whatever sin we are committing is by choice, but would rather place blame on the devil! Sounds like he’s being lifted up more that Jesus but not being crushed under our feet as he should be! I am not saying I don’t believe that a person can be demonically possessed, but every sin a person commits is not demonic possession.

  18. gcmwatch June 1, 2009 at 3:05 pm #

    GNP22, Ive heard simular stories. After all the “deliverance” and “purging”, these people return to the lifestyle. Not that I dont think a demon may have been cast out, but the more critical point is that if there is no discipleship after deliverance, the person is pretty much doomed.

    That’s where the major disconnect is happening with all this. Its a catch 22. The church pushes people to “get delivered” and then refuses to disciple them appropriately. Its like having a baby and then telling the baby to feed himself.

    Im like you there are some things about this issue that I cant quite explain even with scripture, but I do know its sin, I do know he loves me and I do know that he whom the Son sets free (that would be me) is free indeed.

    thanks!

  19. elder jimmy June 1, 2009 at 3:12 pm #

    What if one is so demonized they cannot hear or percieve? Could the biblical father with the demoniac son just explain the gospel to him as he was throwing himself into the fire? It is not as simple as you state.
    Paul cast out a demon of the maiden who followed him around as he was trying to minister..she was clearly able to hear the gospel yet she continued in her demon inspired ranting. I personally was tormented by an literal evil spirit (demon) and I went to my pastor on a Friday night and in front of a small group of believers at an all night prayer meeting. He laid his hand on me and without great fanfare and hoopla said: “Come out of him” I fell to the floor and began to cr and praise the LORD. I haven’t been tormented since. That demon used to tell me repeatedly “Your’e cannot be saved you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit; laugh and utter the most vile blasphemies you can imagine. I have been set free since that day..That man was 87 years old at the time. The power of GOD need not be accompanied by the madness and superstition seen above.
    As far as homosexual spirits the term unclean spirit would encompass any form of evil that is in opposition to the nature of GOD.
    I beleive we are tempted and led astray according to our OWN LUSTS just as James’s epistle states.
    An evil spirit having an area of “specialty” may just be one of his “devices” to quote the apostle.

  20. rogers June 1, 2009 at 3:17 pm #

    nope, every sin a person commits is not because of demonic possession. The word says we commit sin because of our carnal sin nature–because of the influence of the flesh and the world.

    But because sin is one way that we stay in a disconnected, fragmented relationship with God. Sin always draws darkness. Spirits of darkness. You don’t have to become possessed by evil spirits…you can commit sin and it can sometimes just draws demonic oppression; where they just like to hang around a person.

    There are spirits attached to each type of sin because their whole job is to keep you committing that sin and in the congregation of the dead…They want you to take up that particular sin as a practice, so that you never get back in right relationship with God.

    Angels–before the fall or after the fall–are helpers…whether good or evil, they help either God or Satan accomplish their plans on the earth…And helping you stay attached to a sin is what the side of darkness is responsible for.

    And besides, there must be spirits for every sin or the results of sin (sickness) because even jesus used names for spirits as when he said” you deaf and dumb spirit, leave at once!” The spirit was named after whatever fruit or action it produced in a person.

  21. Jon Daniels June 1, 2009 at 3:21 pm #

    I would moreso say that there is a homosexual “stronghold” than a homosexual demon. What I mean is that I believe that several spirits work together to bind one into homosexuality….

  22. elder jimmy June 1, 2009 at 3:38 pm #

    I agree with you that the apostles had a unique authority and ministry as the apostles. If they found the demonized in their day and dealt directly with them why should not we? I absolutely believe that Ephesians 6 is the pattern for biblical spiritual warfare. Not the unbalanced and often heretical deliverance ministries so popular today; yet there are times when the devil must be directly addressed. We most certainly do have authority over the enemy that was given to us by Christ’s vicarious death and ressurrection. I worked with a man who had given his soul over to an evil spirit so he could have control of a woman. He used her and had taken her possessions and body as his own. He did this by going to what he called an Obia(sp?) woman who told him what spells to cast and what incantations to use, etc. One night he saw an evil spirit that frightened him so bad he could hardly speak. He came running to me for help. He knew I was a minister. I was speaking with him and praying for and with him and another Christian brother came int he break room. He did not know the entire story he walked over to the man and commanded the demon to leave the man. What followed was something too long and detailed to get into here. It was ugly and real; complete with another voice coming out of the demonized man. I was there; I saw it and I participated. After that young man got free he came to me for discipleship and biblical training. He is free today and a member of a local church in Boston.
    Lastly, John MacArthur who is NOT a charismatic in any sense tells a story of casting out an evil spirit of a girl in his church. The spirit began to cry out “Oh NO! not him, not him!” We have the same power and authority through Christ as we are seated in the Heavenlies with Christ.

  23. KEITH June 1, 2009 at 3:44 pm #

    Sin is sin. I think demon possession takes sin to the next level. Murder is sin. Cuttting the body up is demonic! Homosexuality is a sin. Looking,walking and talking like a woman if your a man is just demonic!

  24. AgnosticRob June 1, 2009 at 3:49 pm #

    I’m not sure I understand all this talk about demons and spirits. It seems like just another way of saying “the devil made me do it,” thereby diminishing the role of personal responsibility. If I were a Christian, I would disregard both the “gay gene” theory and the “homosexual demon” theory, because each one draws focus away from the fact that the individual is ultimately responsible for his or her actions.

  25. gcmwatch June 1, 2009 at 3:53 pm #

    It looks like Jesus addressed the causation of the spirit, but not necessarily its name. As you pointed out, he spoke to what the spirit was causing. Only once that I’m aware did Jesus question a demon as to the name and that was Legion. And does it really matter/make a difference if one does not know the spirit? Seems to me the command to “come out” would suffice no matter what demonic spirit it was.
    I do think there is an automatic assumption on the part of most people (mainly pentecostals) that every person dealing with homosexuality has a demon and proceed based on that assumption.
    When a person has emotional, relational and sexual brokenness in their lives it is generally because of unhealthy people issues that can only be healed through healthy people relationships. That’s not demonic and can cause serious spiritual damage to treat people in such a way.

  26. rogers June 1, 2009 at 3:54 pm #

    I would agree Jon Daniels. The word says that when theives come to spoil a house; they must first bind the strong man. The fact Jesus pluralized the word “theives” coincides nicely with his discussion of how when a clean house is emptied of one spirit, seven more spirits come back to take over the house…so that person, for sure, is never free ever ever again…

    From my experience, one of those spirits that make up this stronghold, is some spirit of rejection. Most people who deal with homosexuality have had to struggle with this spirit of rejection; that’s why homosexuals strive so hard in this society to be accepted; they feel they are not validated until they are accepted by the schools, accepted by the government, accepted the church;

    but the irony is…even after they get the so-called “acceptance” they want–they still will never be satisfied because this spirit is driving them to see everything in terms of whether I am loved or hated/ wanted or not wanted…they will always want more, more more

    another spirit is that of unforgiveness…

  27. AgnosticRob June 1, 2009 at 3:56 pm #

    Keith,

    How exactly do you plan to stop homosexuality?

  28. gcmwatch June 1, 2009 at 4:01 pm #

    AR, I agree with you 100%. If fact, this is what James tells us:

    James 1: Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

    There is no such concept in scripture as “the devil made me do it”.

    The APA just recently revised its gay gene position, so I would disregard that and the homosexual demon theory doesnt seem to be biblical so I would disregard that too. Personal responsibility for one’s sins is a spiritually healthy way to grow and mature otherwise repentance becomes obsolete if the devil can be blamed all things.

  29. tony June 1, 2009 at 4:16 pm #

    Keith,

    You seem to imply that homosexualtity implies feminine mannerism, let me be the first tell you are stereotype is way off the mark. Not all gay people are soft or have broken wrist. Interesting enough, you didn’t even mention gay women. obviously, you are speaking “carnally”, in other words, your flesh is repulsed by male homosexuality, and it is through that carnal lens that you express non biblical positions.

  30. Dee June 1, 2009 at 4:18 pm #

    Mark, how do you reconcile this statement( “We have never had authority over Satan or demonic forces – only God does!”) with Luke 10:19. In this context the word power refers to both power and authority.

    “Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall by any means hurt you.”

    And just for the record. I don’t believe there is a “homosexual demon”.

    As born again believers endowed with the power of the Holy Ghost God does give us power and authority over unclean spirits.

  31. tony June 1, 2009 at 4:20 pm #

    It seems as though, this young gay dude, has bought the lie that his socalled sin is greater than any other. The socalled pastor is literally inflicting psychological harm on this young man. It’s not ironic that the young man is “acting out”. His indoctrination complete, he accepts that their is a demon in him … afterall there must be right? The pastor spoke it… so it must be right? WRONG.

    The elevation of “homosexuality” as the preeimenent sin is not new. Yet the bible clearly articulates sin is sin. Carnal (flesh based / intellectual thought) is arguably at the root of scriptural twisting employed to make homosexuality stand out as the BIGGEST ONE.

  32. Mark June 1, 2009 at 4:37 pm #

    elder Jimmy – I agree, and yes I have also heard MacArthur’s story, and what he did was invoke the word of God, he told her to repent and God was in abslolute control. I don’t deny demons, but God, not men free them from the bondage. I could be wrong, but that’s how I understand it. Blessings!

  33. Vaughn June 1, 2009 at 4:52 pm #

    I had to cut this guy off when he started speaking of the pre-Adamites

  34. AgnosticRob June 1, 2009 at 5:04 pm #

    Tony,

    I was going to ask about Keith’s “looking like a woman” remark, but I wasn’t sure if he was referring to gay men or transvestites/transgender people. But yes, I agree that he’s looking at it egocentrically.

  35. gcmwatch June 1, 2009 at 5:12 pm #

    Mark, the scripture Dee cited is on point. I understand what you are saying and hear you to say that we have no power over demons. That is a true statement, but an incomplete one. Our power and authority (dunamis and exousia) is not ours, but because we are representatives of Christ in the earth. As he did, we are to do the same. Casting out devils and binding wickedness (not just by what we say but how we live) is part of this spiritual war that we’re in. God is the source of the power, whereas we are conduits based on our relationship with him.

  36. Mark June 1, 2009 at 5:19 pm #

    Hi Dee,
    In context, I would not pick up a deadly snake (Mark 16:18) nor would I step on a lion or a cobra (Psalm 91:13). While I agree, God’s word does indeed have power, man does not, nor has man authority over evil forces – all authority and power is derived from God, man is the agent. That said, the apostles are not us, and I would say we are in error to think we can do signs and miracles simply because we have the spirit of God living in us. I think it is an utter sin to even seek signs and miracles; God’s word and promises are suffcient. However Praying for a miracle is not wrong, simpy because we are seeking God’s will and to Him, not us, His glory may be seen and witnessed by the unbelieving world.

    You state As born again believers endowed with the power of the Holy Ghost God does give us power and authority over unclean spirits.

    This is where I think folks get off track. No one with the spirit of God can have a demon. I think we are in error when we attribute our temptations to “unclean spirits”. Indeed, we have a sin nature, we are tempted daily, not becuase we have some unclean or evil spirit, but simply because it is part of life aftre the fall. Remember, God will use our tempations and even our sin for His Sov purposes. You see, there is no room for any other spirit in us, the Holy Spirit nevers for a second shares God’s own with any other spirit – ever.

    When the demon said to John MacArthur – “oh no not him!” or somthing like that – the demon knew John belonged to God. MacArthur’s only weapon was the word of God, MacArthur is not in control nor was it his authority in which the demon was cast out – it is always God’s. This young lady had to repent, she had to submit to God’s authority and by God’s word (the weapon) she could be freed – and btw she was never was touched again by demonic forces. This all brought God glory, it was not men’s.

    Luke 10:20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.” In essence, by the grace of God we are His, don’t go thinking you did anything without “me” etc… The apostles had a unique ministry and power – we do not have the same, what we do have is the God breathed words they recorded for us – in that and that alone we are fully armed for war.

    Blessings sister!

  37. Henry Porter June 1, 2009 at 5:57 pm #

    GCMWatch,

    That’s a great example to parallel the lack of discipleship to having a baby but making it feed itself. I agree with you.

    One thing that people don’t understand about homosexuals is that often times prior to their deliverance, they were a part of a strong community of GLBT identified people in which they connected with and probably looked at as family. But after they come out and get delivered, there’s often not that same level of Godly community to take them in…which often times may leave them hopeless and cause them to backslide. I believe that when they get delivered they need the same level of support that was received from the gay community that they came out of.

    As for the topic….People often name demons to certain sins, etc….like a drinking demon, a smoking demon, I’ve personally been accused to having a sleeping spirit on me..lol! But my question is…where was the smoking/drinking spirit before cigarettes or alcohol was made?

  38. gcmwatch June 1, 2009 at 6:19 pm #

    Good point. Maybe this is because the church really doesnt understand the stronger than normal “community” support (even if its wrong) that the gay community offers. Having been there, I know from personal experience. It took all I had in me to break with what I had become acclimatized to during the 11 years I was in the lifestyle. Coming out of that to a skeptical, ten foot pole mentality church community is devastating and is a cause of spiritual recidivism. THANK GOD HE KEPT ME!

    I think this is what Jesus was addressing in the Lazarus narrative. People miss this threaded truth while focusing more on the miracle.

    Church: not only must the person be loosed and let go, but he/she needs to be loved and discipled after the miracle. That’s YOUR responsiblity, not Christ’s.

    That’s what Id like to know about the young man in the video. What happened after all the falling, rolling, “purging”?

  39. AgnosticRob June 1, 2009 at 6:23 pm #

    GCMW,

    Like many Christians who cite that article, you make the unfortunate error of misinterpreting the APA’s statement. Contrary to OneNewsNow, the APA has not admitted that there is no “gay gene.” The APA has simply said that there is no consensus among the scientific community or data in favor of a “gay gene.” Claiming that you cannot find evidence for something is VERY different from denying its existence altogether.

    I also find it amusing that OneNewsNow ignores another statement made by the APA:

    “For over three decades the consensus of the mental health community has been that homosexuality is not an illness and therefore not in need of a cure. The APA’s concern about the position’s espoused by NARTH and so-called conversion therapy is that they are not supported by the science. There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed. Our further concern is that the positions espoused by NARTH and Focus on the Family create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.” (http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/0806exgay.pdf)

    As usual, the Christian anti-gay movement takes advantage of any statement that makes its position look good, while ignoring all the rest. That is a fundamentally dishonest and unfair approach.

    GCMW: Onenewsnow and consensus aside, there is no gay gene. Its simply a theory. I knew that before they ever revised their statement.

  40. AgnosticRob June 1, 2009 at 6:36 pm #

    You’re obviously entitled to your opinion about whether there is a gay gene, but that doesn’t change the fact that this Christian news outlet misrepresented the APA’s statement.

  41. ReRe June 1, 2009 at 6:40 pm #

    Dee,

    When I read Mark’s statement above and then GCMW’s reply according to the scripture you gave, I was trying to find your comment. While looking for it, Luke 10:19 was in my spirit but I wasn’t sure of the reference, I just knew the verse. After finding and reading the entire 10th chapter, I just happened to scroll down a bit more to find your comment and lo and behold you stated Luke 10:19! Isn’t God awesome!!?

  42. walter June 1, 2009 at 7:06 pm #

    Sin is sin, whether it be homosexuality, adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, covetousness, murder,pride, envy, etc, etc, all sinners needed a Savior that is why Jesus died.We cannot single out homosexuality as greater than other sins because the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God regardless of what your unrighteousness is,and such were all of us.There are fallen angels that will influence, obsess and possess you to make you a servant of sin.At this present time many are possessed, I was, but the Son has set me free.

  43. lyn June 1, 2009 at 7:18 pm #

    The Lord Jesus Christ makes it very clear where homosexuality, and ALL SIN comes from, ‘For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies’ Matthew 15:19
    In this particular case, ‘fornication’ comes from the Greek word ‘porneia’, meaning -’adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc., illicit sexual intercourse’. This is from http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4202&t=KJV
    We sin because it is in our hearts, our nature to do so. We always navigate towards sin, like a magnet. It is only the power of Christ that can free a sinner from this bondage. Sin is more powerful than human will, when we give in to it rather than run to our Lord, we will be ensnared by it.
    There is no gay gene, just as there is no murderer gene, or adulterer gene, or embezzler gene, or thief gene, etc. This is man’s way of trying to look for a loophole, which does not exist. NO ONE gets by with trying to blame God for their own actions…it goes all the way back to the garden when Eve blames the serpent, and Adam blames Eve. Thousands of years later, nothing has changed! Sinful mankind refuses to ‘own up’ to what comes from within their own hearts.

  44. Rogers June 1, 2009 at 7:21 pm #

    Yes, sin is sin. But the consequences/punishments of some sins, at least the spiritual and earthly consequences tend to vary. Just like in the old Testament–adultery warranted the penalty of stoning but stealing your neighbors’ goods required the penalty of restoring those items four-fold the amount.

    Homosexuality like any other sin related to fornication is one of the few sins that had dealth penalties attached to it. There are no peace offerings or atonements that could be offered by priests in the temple like for other types…and I think Paul talks about fornication as not just sinning against the soul but against the body.

  45. blkrepublican June 1, 2009 at 7:25 pm #

    Wow,
    I have personally witnesses church services like the one above. The question is what does scripture teach us about such things. clearly, what some are calling demons are called ‘works of the flesh” by god. that means that it is not some posession by outside forces, but rather our own sinful nature that causes such sin. the greek word for works of the flesh is “sarx” i believe. which is our sinful nature inherited from adam. nothing supernatural or demonic, just plain old sin that our nature tends toward, until we are regenerated by the blood of christ and the process of sanctification that all christians must strive to undergo daily.
    the casting out or “deliverance” service reminds me of something straight out of a witchdoctor/ occultic ritual. i think it comes from african occultic rituals that we have merged into christianity. the only difference is that the preacher is yelling jesus over and over as if it is a magical mantra instead of foucsing on the finished work of christ on the cross.

  46. Rogers June 1, 2009 at 7:38 pm #

    I agree, I think you have to be careful about treating people in an unChristlike manner because of their particular condition. Certainly, saying that someone has demons does not help the person who is having a struggle with homosexuality who may feel a little different already. At a recent revival, my godmother prayed for a young boy dealing with homosexuality and molestation for thirty minutes during a church service. She did not reveal to the boy or the church his problem. It was not till I got home, did she tell me, that he had this problem. I think this is wisdom for people who may already feel ostracized.

    Yes, there is some brokenness in this condition due to emotional, relational, and sexual issues; and it is important to just address those when you are talking about ministry and discipleship.

    But from my experience, I just think the spiritual dimension to sin cannot be overlooked. And there are some special cases when you have to apply the techniques like in this video (i don’t know the circumstances surrounding this situation). Jesus did this often although he did not go out looking out for demons. He was no demon buster or ghost buster. But if, while he was teaching or preaching, one manifested and started showing out, he handled business.
    Otherwise…I think if you get good teaching and, like in my case, sometimes just repentance, was enough to cause demonic spirits to just leave (this actually happened) because they have no sin ground or sin roots to remain.

  47. djenk23 June 1, 2009 at 7:48 pm #

    i agree…i have seen stuff like this since i was a kid…i could never square it up with the Bible…when Jesus or Paul told the demons to come out, they came out…i dont see anything about them wrestling with said demons for hours and hours…

  48. Gwen Richardson June 1, 2009 at 8:27 pm #

    Rev. Foster:
    This is a good observation and one which I believe more churches should adopt. It may be difficult for both the gay person and the church in that the gay person may not want to admit his lifestyle to members of the Body of Christ, even after he/she believes he is delivered. But many churches have ministries for people who are combating addictions (e.g., smoking, drinking, drugs).

    From the anectodal information I’ve heard, the ministries that do help homosexuals overcome are attacked by the gay community for doing so. This is not true for those trying to overcome other sins. Alcoholics Anonymous is not attacked by existing alcoholics for trying to help people overcome. What is the solution?

  49. John Parker June 1, 2009 at 8:41 pm #

    gcmwatch I noticed that you just did a Podcast with Elder G Craige Lewis, may I humbly suggest you consult him on questions about demons he will definitely be able to tell you about the demon of affectation.

    I recommend you watch this Elder Lewis video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3SGsNaUNqs

    If you haven’t bought his truth behind hip hop videos get them today. ;^)

    As far as the enemy goes satan counterfeits everything God does, that is a basic Biblical principal. Just like God has His Angels assigned as ministering, praising and waring jobs ect, satan too has demons assigned to temp and entice man to sin.

  50. AgnosticRob June 1, 2009 at 8:57 pm #

    Gwen,

    I believe these so-called ex-gay ministries are often criticized by the gay community because they have yet to produce substantial evidence that “change is possible.” In fact, all they can give us are personal testimonies, which are hardly reliable. And of course, there are the many gay people who have killed themselves after going through ex-gay ministries.

  51. gcmwatch June 1, 2009 at 9:55 pm #

    Gwen, there are pros and cons with these ministries. I think the gay community extrapolates and blow up the cons because the message of change threatens their bottom line.

    However, change is a fundamental principle of the bible. Everything but God and his word changes. There is a very salient apprehension about sharing your real testimony in church. Not because its not right, but because most fear the reaction of people. I know they shouldnt be, but many times that fear is justified. I still experience it myself at times although it doesnt affect me the way it did when I was first delivered. But what about those who havent got to that point of maturity? They are targets for the enemy’s lies and the church hands off approach to discipleship.

    I guess that’s why the vid intrigued me. I felt sadness for the young man and I wonder what happened to him after all this and if he is truly a part of this church as a fellow believer, not as “the guy who had the homosexual demon.”

  52. gcmwatch June 1, 2009 at 9:59 pm #

    Rob, on another comment you seemed very concerned about misrepresentation. Even here, you claim that there is no substantial evidence of change. In a court of law, a personal testimony is the key to truthful discovery. Im not sure why personal testimonies are in this scenarios inadmissable.

    Be fair and dont be a hypocrite. There are not “many people” who have killed themselves after going through exgay ministries.

    For that to be a credible statement, you’d have to qualify “many” and then provide the evidence supporting your claim.

  53. proverbs28nine June 1, 2009 at 10:47 pm #

    This is an excellent post. I’ve enjoyed the feedback on here.

    My understanding is that there is a hierarchy of demons and they influence the world. The demons have assignments to carry out, and work to accomplish that end. So what we are influenced by directly effects our walk with Christ. Scripture says to walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. In other words, if you follow the Holy Ghost’s direction, you will not yield to the demonic influences/enticements that are trying to damn your soul to hell with them.

    1 Kings 22: 19-23 is a prime example of this process. We must keep in mind that God does not do this, but allows this to happen. And we have the remedy in Christ through his Word and the Holy Ghost.

    But specifically in the passage God asks “who shall persuade Ahab?” And a conversation took place between God and several spirit beings without distinction.

    Verse 21 says “and there came forth a spirit….” again no particular spirit…”and said I will persuade him” And in verse 22 God asked basically…How? “and he said I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.” and finally in that verse, the Lord says, “thou shalt persuade him” or tempt him to sin, “and prevail also” get him to actually sin. “go forth and do so.” Or in other words, I give you permission to tempt him.

    Job went throuhg the same thing. Only he won his battle and resisted the devil.

    So I cannot conclude that there is a gay or homosexual demon per se, but there is a manner in which it manifests itself just as the “lying” spirit did. It comes with permission from God to carry out a demonic agenda which is to turn you from God. God allows this to try your faith and for some as punishment for not yielding to him. When the homosexual sin manifests itself, that particular spirit had to get permission to promote homosexual behavior and came to acheive that end.

    What makes homosexuality a stronger sin is that the bible calls it abomination, which is stronger transgression against God. It’s a sin against the nature of God, which is pro-creation. But with that said, it will get you sent to hell no quicker than any other sin.

    Demonic possession is when you are fully under the control of the demon, not simply influenced by it. You yield to the spirit enough that it takes full control over you.

    So again what we allow ourselves to be influenced by, either God or the devil will ultimately manifest itself in full possession. Holy Ghost filled means what it says. God dwells in us and directs us. Demonic possession is the devil’s counterfeit; his spirit dwells in us and directs us.

    God Bless

  54. Gwen Richardson June 2, 2009 at 12:29 am #

    AgnosticRob:
    If the personal testimonies of people who HAVE NOT overcome homosexuality are considered valid, then why invalidate the testimonies of those who HAVE? You should at least be consistent. Also, there is no evidence of a cause-and-effect relationship between going through an ex-gay ministry program and committing suicide. From my understanding, many of those who commit suicide and are gay never went to any such program at all.

    If a person who was an alcoholic and joins AA goes off the wagon after 3 years and subsequently is killed while driving under the influence, is AA then responsible? At some point, the individual has to take some responsibility for his actions.

    But I have learned something from this blog and that is that those who do want to be delivered from this lifestyle do not have enough support from the church and other Christian-based groups. It would be nice if this could be done without being attacked by gay groups.

    Christians believe that, with Christ, all things are possible. That through Christ we can be delivered from any sin or condition, that we are new creatures in Him. If gay groups don’t believe this, then it is because they haven’t read the word of God or have no faith in the Word. But they shouldn’t criticize someone who does have the faith to overcome his/her situation, whatever it may be.

  55. blkrepublican June 2, 2009 at 12:34 am #

    I must say that some “deliverance ministries” spend a whole lot of time on casting out demons. How much time does the new testament church spend on them? not very much. Some of the ministers being mentioned in these postings are poor bible teachers and examples of why we need sound theological training.
    i was exposed to this foolishness as a young man and i read a book titled ” pigs in the parlor.” this book was supposed to be a primer on deliverance ministry and a key to understanding demons and how they posess christians. the premise of the book was that man was tri-fold. he was made up of body, soul and spirit. this was gathered from a salutory greeting by the apostle paul in one of his letters where he says that he wishes that we prosper in body soul and spirit. this author took this to mean that we were literally composed of these three things. he then went on to argue that once we become saved, god only controls our soul but that demons can posess and attack our body and spirits.
    a few years later i read another book called “he came to make the captives free.” this book was written under a pseudonym and it basically stated the same thing but argured that god only controlled a believers spirit, but that demons can attack and posess a believers soul and body. the conclusion is that deliverance ministries are needed to rid believers of demons that affect every area and emotion of a beliver.
    not being a mature beliver, or mature person at that point, i began to see demons behind every bush, every dark corner and in everyone i met. it was like watching a horror movie as a youngster and having nightmares because the movie was so graphic and suggestive.
    but i digress, the premises of these two books plainly contradict each other. christians are bought with a price and we belong to christ our king. demons cannot own us or posess us or sneak into us by watching tv or having a “bad” voodo mask in our house. we need to put our focus on where god wants it. him and his kingdom. when we focus on christ, everything else will be in its proper perspective. these foolish deliverance services are focused on the “apostle, prophet or bishop”. what do you think of the damage done to the young man in the video who may be struggling with homosexuality? do you think that this is emotionally healthy? deals with his issues? of course not. lastly, blaming our sinful desires and struggles on demons is a convienent excuse not to take responsibility for our own shortcomings. when we sin we can just do like flip wilson and say, “the devil made me do it!” and go throw up a demon and be on our way!

  56. gcmwatch June 2, 2009 at 1:29 am #

    I know you meant this in all seriousness, but I couldnt help but laugh at certain parts, especially “when we sin we can just do like flip wilson and say, “the devil made me do it!” and go throw up a demon and be on our way!” You told the T-R-U-T-H, blkrepublican.

  57. gcmwatch June 2, 2009 at 2:23 am #

    p289, you have a lot in this comment. I’ve read that passage before and it is a strange one. One that certainly challenges our perception of God and what other passages say about him. A paradox if Ive ever seen one. The question is: can we confirm that this is the norm or a special case scenario? Im not sure based on your exegesis/isegesis of it that it has an implication on demon possession. For instance the lying spirit did not take up habitation in Ahab, only tempted him. As stated before demons are not disembodied spirits so in order for this passage to apply to “possession” the spirit would have to be in him. Further, they were “in the mouths” of the false prophets. Again, this suggests temporary habitation at best to accomplish a specific task of God. Again, Im not so sure it can be assigned a broader application. Also, Job was not possessed by an evil spirit, he was severely buffeted by satan. An outside job so to speak. :) That’s a big difference. I will look at this more closely.

    Thanks

  58. proverbs28nine June 2, 2009 at 4:26 am #

    I’m not suggesting that demon possession of Ahab is what the passage is stating. Sorry for that not being clear. I’m only stating this is how Satan is allowed to operate, and that I think this is why there’s no specific homosexual demon.

    I think he only gets permission to influence or tempt in certain ways. The lying spirit was not a lying spirit before God allowed him to tempt Ahab that way from what I gather in the text. He was just a spirit. But after getting permission took on that character to tempt Ahab.

    But when we continue yielding to the spirit, then we open ourselves to possession. It is something that happens as a consequence to continued yielding.

  59. GNP22 June 2, 2009 at 6:16 am #

    If I have spring allergies, does that mean it’s caused by an “allergy demon?” If I have a weight problem, is there an “obesity demon?” Just a thought. Thanks for the great blogging!

  60. Keith June 2, 2009 at 6:37 am #

    Tony, Seeing a man act like something other than a man is sad. If that makes me carnal then Im sorry. True all men who are homosexual don’t act this way. I was an athelete in school and some of the biggest guys were homosexual.

    My heart simply goes out to those that are lost. I mean really can you watch Bobby Jones? Its sad to see this man and how many he is leading astray, yet no one speaks out against him.

    Ive seen demons cast out of people. Its real. These spirits are real. When I was younger I used to leave my tv on at night when I was sleep which is a crazy because all kinds of stuff come oon tv now. My mother used to tell me to cut that stuff off but I wouldn’t listen. One night I left it on BET and I fell asleep and the next thing I know I just felt like something dark was smothering me. I couldn’t scream or move. I tried to call my mothers name but I couldn;t. The onlything I remembered to do was call on the name of Jesus. I couldn’t even say it all the way through but I kept on trying because I knew he was the only one who could help me. As I kept trying His name got loonger and longer as I was saying it. then finally I felt this force just leave me. I never opened my eyes because I was afraid at what I might see but whatever it was I thank God I had enough sense to call on Jesus. I wasn’t saved at the time but I knew that God is real and so is the devil.

    I believe when you watch these movies and have these african symbols in your homes or games such as fortune boards, you give the devil and these demonic forces access to you. Its real. I thank God that I am saved and filled with his holy spirit today. I only wish everyone else knew the peace you have in you when you give your life to Christ.

  61. Rob June 2, 2009 at 12:00 pm #

    proverbs28nine,

    The Bible also uses the word “abomination” to describe the eating of shellfish. Do you think that is a transgression against God too? Is it a sin against nature?

  62. dawkinswatch June 2, 2009 at 12:25 pm #

    This material is multi faceted.

    But which ever way you look at it there seems to be a strong correlation between occult involvement and propensity for someone to be gay.

    Let us also not forget that orders like the OTO have sodomy rites where the initiates have to go through homosexual acts to rise in the order.

    It depends, are there masonic demons 9 devils really)

    Yes, but what do they do wants they have entered the body.

    If you look at groups like the Rosicrucians and other mystery religions you start to seee the hemaprodites claims of god?

    Well I believe that Lucifer has a hemaprodite nature, hence the appearances of the Queen of Heaven.

    If you look closely at the leading occultists you will find they have a homosexual tendencies wheter they be Manley P Hall.

    Let us not forget the Franklin scandals.

    Having said that I believe we have seem a lot of amateurism in deliverance monistry, people look at the problem then name the problem as a demon.

    Pray for Alcoholism- cast out a demon of alcohol but what if the devil is one of addiction?

    I am not the first person to note the link between homsexuality and involvement in the occult. Fritz Springmeir dealt with the problem.

    In a way you might say he went too far because he was naming different demons and casting them out. But he was dealing wiht ritualistic Satanic abuse.

    I am not sure that the naming of demons is useful, just because if you get an African Deliverance book, they will tell you different demons and their ranks but that can make people somewhat too spiritually intense.

    This issue is a bit complex and it opens downs which are best left closed in pollite society.

  63. blkrepublican June 2, 2009 at 12:27 pm #

    gnp22,
    I think you are on to something. If you read any of these demonology books… i mean deliverance books, you will see that they blame all of a believers troubles and shortcoming on demons! The bible clearly tells us that gluttony is a work of the flesh!!!! Sin! pure and simple. Funny how they never cast out the spirit of gluttony. Too many heavy sisters in church!!! it would be obvious pretty quickly how that could not work. right after service they’re all heading down stairs for some fried foods, mac and cheese and collard greens with a healthy dose of bacon grease!!!

  64. Mark June 2, 2009 at 12:52 pm #

    What if one is so demonized they cannot hear or percieve?

    God’s will, no one is beyond the hand of God or kept from deliverance by a demon.

    Could the biblical father with the demoniac son just explain the gospel to him as he was throwing himself into the fire?

    Yes the father could do that and pray for the son’s deliverance. Like I said, men (you and I) have no power over demons – only God does. We are armed with His word – God does the rest and is never subject, bound, or prevented from delivering any unbeliever from demonic torture. With our faith we may confront the situation with no fear – Luke 10:19 – but God is not dependent on anything, and like the situation your experinced – it was God’s glory and Sov hand that allowed it to play out the way it did.

    I don’t mean to over simplfy – but I think this is on solid ground.
    Blessings brother

  65. dawkinswatch June 2, 2009 at 1:02 pm #

    having seen the video, it looks like exorcism rather than deliverance what up with hioly water and cloths?

    Look Holy water is Catholic ( Church If England and Othordox tradition ) and Hinduism rather than Chritianity.

    Jesus ministry waas different there were no cloths just plain expelling of devils. why are they holding him when he is not struggling?

    GCMW: And not to mention the rubber gloves! I cant over how jumpy everyone is.

  66. Mark June 2, 2009 at 1:29 pm #

    here is one other thing about this video that makes me angry – these folks taped it! poor kid, he needs our prayers and these folks will have judgement hanging over their heads.

  67. Mark June 2, 2009 at 2:05 pm #

    Rob,
    it is an “abomination” to them (Israel) – not God. Why? As God’s slaves, the Israelites were not free to live where they wished, nor to live as they liked. Living the lifestyles of the nations around them was prohibted – and you should know what happened when they disobyed – idol worship was just around the corner, eh?

  68. djenk23 June 2, 2009 at 2:17 pm #

    the woman tells someone not to block the camera at the 3:26 mark..

    GCMW: …and she wouldnt put that mike down for nothing as if demons cant hear your non-amplified voice.

  69. AgnosticRob June 2, 2009 at 2:41 pm #

    Mark,

    Are you saying that the Israelites commanded Leviticus 11: 9-12, but God commanded Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13? How can you tell the difference?

    And if the Israelites wrote prohibitions against things which they, not God, found detestable, then is it possible the same thing happened with regards to homosexual behavior? Is it possible that homosexuality was an abomination merely in the eyes of Paul and the other New Testament authors, not God? How can you be sure?

  70. gcmwatch June 2, 2009 at 3:09 pm #

    Keith, they are real. That is for sure. Anybody who doesnt believe that has drunk the devil’s koolaid.

    I have encountered demons, cast them out and seen the cast out. And not this all night exor-fest type of stuff. As a matter of fact when I was a teen, Mother Elsie Mason (Bishop Mason’s 2nd wife) came to our church, she was the speaker for our anniversary. While she was sitting in her seat waiting to be introduced, a heavyset woman jumped out of her seat and literally charged her. It reminded me of the way a bull would charge. Mother Mason stood, simply put out her hand and said “stop”. The woman fell down flat and Mother Mason said “Come out of her!”. And the spirit came out immediately. The woman got up as if she wasnt aware of what she had done was helped back to her seat and there was no more trouble out of her. All of this occured within the space of 10 minutes.

  71. Mark June 2, 2009 at 3:26 pm #

    Rob,
    read the texts, there is that which is an abomination and perversion – period (to God’s image) and that which God says in uclean and prohibted to the Israelites while living in the land. They were not to be like others, they were to be set apart and they were God’s slaves now and they do not get to pick and choose their prefered lifstyle including foods.

    Lev 18:22 is an abonination – period. In fact Lev 18 is about moral and immoral laws – timeless.
    Lev 11:8 “it is unlcean to you” – not God.
    Lev 11:9-12 same thing – “detestable things to you”
    That’s one way to tell the difference, the texts themsleves.

    Are you saying that the Israelites commanded

    No, God commanded, not the Israelites; they recieved His commands.

  72. GNP22 June 2, 2009 at 3:33 pm #

    I’ve had that experience, too, in the past–not lately. You try to say “Jesus” and nothing comes out. You feel something holding you on your bed and you can move. Yes, the spirit realm is very real. As a teen, I used to see grotesque, animal-like apparitions when ever I was in a semi-concious state (half-sleep). When I awakened fully, the would disappear. My home in serious spiritual warfare back in those day (1970′s) by those who were involved in dark, occultic practices; but God has given us victory and delivered us from them (Psalm 34:19). When we moved away from the evil neighbors, those apparitions ceased. I don’t even remember when it stopped happening, but thank God, it did.

  73. AgnosticRob June 2, 2009 at 3:36 pm #

    Gwen, I wrote a response to your comment earlier this morning but I guess it didn’t post.

  74. blkrepublican June 2, 2009 at 3:42 pm #

    keith and gcmw, i don’t think anyone is saying that demons are not real, scripture makes it plain that they are and do infact posess people. the distinction that needs to be made is that they cannot posess a believer in christ. we belong to him when we get saved. satan no longer has a hold on us. the problem i see is that people are judging the video and with all due respect to gcmw, demonic activity not by scripture, but by our experience
    keith, where in the bible do you find reference to the idea that you can give a demon access to you? it is not in scripture but rather in the two books that i referenced earlier. and in the teaching of derek prince et al. keith by promoting your experience over the teaching of scripture, you are on shaky ground and going to lead others to error. you probably felt that way after leaving the tv on because you were/ are highly suggestable. if the idea was planted in your young mind, then you probably imagined it.
    did the poor kid in the video have a demon of homosesxuality? of course not, he was just doing what he thought he was supposed to do in front of the crowd with “the annointing” flowing and the profit.. i mean prophet of gawd ministering!

  75. AgnosticRob June 2, 2009 at 4:25 pm #

    Mark, you ignored my other question. How do you know it was God who commanded these things and not men who attributed their words to God?

  76. Mercedes June 2, 2009 at 4:44 pm #

    Wow. I too have experienced demons attacking me in semi-concious state. It seems soooooooooooo hard to say Jesus name, the name above all names. I thought I was the only one. Sometimes I would be too afraid to sleep in the dark. But our Lord God told us that he does not give us the spirit of fear and that He will never leave us nor forsake us. His mercy endureths forever! His words are sweeter than the honey and the honeycomb! I just thank God for His love and kindness.

  77. Mark June 2, 2009 at 5:50 pm #

    Rob,
    You accusing me of “ignoring” is kind of funny.
    How do I know – well let’s start with the tomb was indeed historically and factually empty. If you disagree, start a blog so you can explain away 2000 plus years of history that both Jesus’ followers and His enemies confirm to be true.

    In that you should have no problem confirming what Christ confirmed – the authority of HIS Bible; the Hebrew Bible, ya know the one He quoted from while rebuking satan in the desert; the book of Deut to be exact.

    Hope that helped.

  78. Mark June 2, 2009 at 5:53 pm #

    ROFLOL!

  79. Mark June 2, 2009 at 6:01 pm #

    Hey Rob – one more thing you might consider –
    F. F. Bruce writes,“Those who are interested in the Bible chiefly as historians of religious literature have naturally little use for the concept of a canon” i.e most non- believers.

    The canon of scripture is a historical fact. Bruce continues – “Individuals or communities may consider that it is too restricted or too comprehensive; but their opinion does not affect the identity of the canon. The canon is not going to be diminished or increased because of what they think or say: it is a literary, historical and theological datum” Indeed God’s very hand and breath are all over the scripture’s reliabilty.

  80. AgnosticRob June 2, 2009 at 6:11 pm #

    Mark,

    I was just asking a question. There’s no need to get defensive and snarky. Have a good day!

  81. Mark June 2, 2009 at 6:14 pm #

    I wasn’t – you go by “agnostic” and then said I am ignoring – that is funny to me. No hard feelings.

  82. KEITH June 2, 2009 at 6:22 pm #

    Why does it take believers so long to cast them out? Could it be like the story of the disciples? They could cast out this particular demon. When they asked Jesus why they could’nt He responded this time by fasting and prayer…… Could it be that we as saints are not fasting and praying enough?

    bikrepublcan, When I got saved I had to get rid everything that was in my life that wasn’t of God. Music,movies, clothes, occult symbols………. These things carry curses on them. If you research some of these symbols most of them come from ancient egypt. And If Im not mistaken God said don’t worship anything from egypt. My young mind as you said could not have imagined what happend to me. Im not saying throw away your tv or nothing but there are certain things that you don’t need to be watching. I didnt say the bed was shaking or my head was spinning either. LOL . At that time I was not saved. Im sorry but I never read those books you spoke of so I dont know what your reffering too. I am in no way promoting my experience over scripture. I simply was giving my testimony that this is real. And by calling on Jesus whatever was trying to get a hold of me had to leave. I don’t know if the video is real but Im saying that spiritual warfare is real. Brother please forgive me if it seems I was promoting myself. I only try to promote His Name.

  83. KEITH June 2, 2009 at 6:32 pm #

    I just witnessed her putting on gloves!!! Everytime I watch it I see something disturbing.

  84. AgnosticRob June 2, 2009 at 6:33 pm #

    I don’t really understand your sense of humor, but whatever. Identifying as agnostic doesn’t mean that I ignore certain parts of the Bible. I just reject them as nonsense ;-)

  85. Paul N June 2, 2009 at 7:24 pm #

    Jesus says “this kinds come out not but by fasting and prayer”, what is it that doesnt come out?

    I think Jesus is saying that this kind of disbelief can only bee driven out by fasting and prayer.It seems the disciples encountered something different and lost faith because of it.

    As far as demonic homosexual influences, I believe a demon can influence an individual in many ways, be it anger, lust, unforgiveness, hate, etc.

    I do agree that many times that our issues are of the flesh but lets be aware that devil/demons know exactly what our struggles are and will kindly assist us in our weaknesses and sinful tendencies, he is the tempter.

  86. Rogers June 2, 2009 at 11:29 pm #

    I’m sorry but your comments sound no different from many of the ideas of philosophy/psychology. “Oh, you think you’re sitting in a chair. No it’s all in your mind. Your expectations and your need for stability in face of uncertainty created that reality.”

    I think something is going on in the video, largely because the boy’s movements are unnatural and grotesque; and when I was delivered, and a spirit was trying to break my body in half from the inside out while making animal sounds–it was clear that this was not me; because it was not human or natural.

    there are plenty of scripture references with Jesus discussing demons and Satan that verifies their reality.

    And in regards to your issue of possession, I can have purchased a car, but only have the title. I may not have never taken the car to my house or driven it. But my title could indicate that I am the legitimate owner of it. Although Jesus did come to establish his kingdom on earth and to create a body of believers, all of his work will not be finalized until the end of times. This is when he will be physical and spiritual ruler over the earth and his people…until then, there is the possibility that his people will be afflicted and oppressed by demonic forces.

  87. Donna June 3, 2009 at 2:31 pm #

    Why wouldn’t homosexuality involve some kind of demon oppression? I believe that we are in spiritual warfare from our birth. We don’t just “come up” with things in our mind. The Bible continually warns us to be on guard against Satan’s attacks.

  88. 404momi June 5, 2009 at 3:23 am #

    If I was a man I am certain I would not be the one holding him – somehow that does not seem to be appropriate.

    GCMW: 4o4momi, you are the first person to bring that up. It was unseemly to me. Well, actually the WHOLE spectacle was unseemly to say the least.

  89. Mrs Williams June 5, 2009 at 9:45 am #

    Greetings dear brother D L Foster in Jesus precious and HOLY name!

    There is a dear lady by the name of Johanna Michaelson, who has written a book entitled “the beautiful side of evil”. Sermon audio have also posted two videos by her on youtube, where she is accompanied by Dave Hunt and John Ankerberg! A must see! Another must for book reading is “from witchcraft to Christ” by Doreen Irvine the powerful english black witch, who got mightily saved! She also has a video testimony posted on youtube.

    But to immediately comment upon this very subject regarding a “homosexual demon”, I strongly feel that the term is biblically ignorant , and one that should not be adhered to. However the term which I do find to be more biblically accurate (which i believe somebody has already mentioned), is the term “unclean spirit” used in scripture. There are approximately 11 scriptural references in the Gospels and one in the book of Revelation where this term is referred to.

    The word unclean (which is akatharos in the greek) means – impure, lewd (in a moral sense), demonically foul and unclean. This is an accurate rendering of the word unclean in the New Testament. So to answer your question there are morally impure, lewd and foul demonic spirits who take possession of the souls of men, which will of course result in lewd behaviour (what ever form that may take).

    Here is a list of all twelve scriptures mentioned in the New Testament with the words “unclean spirit”

    Matthew 12:43, Mark 1:23, Mark 1:26, Mark 3:30, Mark 5:2, Mark 5:8, Mark 7:25, Luke 4:33, Luke 8:29, Luke 9:42, Luke 11:24, Rev 18:2

    Yes I know that there is a lot of nonsense and demon-ranting foolishness going on in the name of Christ, but that does not mean that we are to throw out the baby with the bath water! It Is very interesting to note, that in witchcraft and satanism, sex is used as a very powerful ritual amongst initiates. Sex magick is practised by powerful priests and priestesses. Baphomet is a figure who is very popular in the occult and dark crafts. Baphomet (the image of satan, or the goats head) is to the witch or satanist, what the empty cross is to the Christian!

    This image has a goats head with female breasts, erect genitalia and a female organ! Witches call him the “horned one”. The depiction of these organs are said to emphasise his status as the god of carnal lust and pleasure! He is described as a figure who unites or transcends the two sexes. Lewd spirits are said to take possession of the initiates bodies as they participate in the most debauched behaviour. In witchcraft sexually deviant behaviour of ANY KIND is a very important practice and form of worship! So yes there is a definate spiritual connection.

    There is alot more that I could say regarding this subject but space does not permit me, thank you for your time and patience. And remember, JESUS IS VICTOR, HALELUJAH!!

    God Bless you!

  90. blkrepublican June 5, 2009 at 1:32 pm #

    Rogers,
    While your car purchasing analogy seems true, it has little bearing on the discussion. Where in scripture do you find any believer in christ possesed by a demon? Just give me one instance. it does not exist. these teachings are used to keep christians in bondage to legalism and keep then constantly in fear and in need of a “deliverer” or prophet with the gift on knowledge to help keep them free. Guess what, christ has made us free!
    And just to make the point again because it seems that you and others are ignoring it, demons do exist. they are mentioned in scripture. they are cast out in scripture. my contention has and continues to be that they CANNOT POSESS BELIEVERS IN CHRIST!!!!!!!! there i hope you get it now. there is nowhere in the bible ( the true judge, not our fallible experience) where christians have demons. period.

  91. gcmwatch June 5, 2009 at 1:58 pm #

    he did say “afflicted and oppressed”, not possessed. That’s a big difference. Youre right there’s no evidence in scripture which leads us to believe a true follower of Christ was possessed by a demon, but I do believe one can fall into a backslidden state and the possibility of being possessed does come into play.
    Consider if you will Luke 11:24-26:

    “When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ “And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. “Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.”

    Based on this the possiblity certainly does exist. Could this have been the state of the young man in the video? We dont know without further information. It could be that he was just reacting to all the abuse he was subjected to. I mean throwing him around, putting her feet on his neck, choking him, throwing water and oil in his face that would cause an abnormal reaction in anybody.

  92. blkrepublican June 5, 2009 at 3:26 pm #

    gcm watch,
    Yes it is true that he did say “opressed and afflicted” i think that we are making a distinction without a difference. His analogy about the having the title but not the car is illustrative of the point his is trying to make which is that god can have “title” to our souls but we still ” belong” in someway to the devil/ demons/ sin etc. Paul in his epistle to the romans makes it plain that “there is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in christ jesus”. that means none! people talk about inheriting demons and generational curses but i don’t find much scriptural support for those beliefs.
    I am very much enjoying this discussion and i think it is important. let me say that the verses in luke you quote clearly suggest that demons can come back with more, but left usaid is weather this can happen to believers. this continues to be my point. also, it is problematic to build an entire theological thesis on one admittedly obscure and somewhat vague scripture. i think it is instructive that none of the apostles writing instructions to the church mention this. none of them talk about the wonderful deliverence services going on in the churches. why not? were they not happening? or does god want us to focus on him and not so much on the devil. i think in a weird way we give the devil glory when we spend a majority of the service on “deliverance”. i’ve been to services where that is the focus. pass over the scripture and even the word of god. i’ve been in church when the “spirit” was so heavy that the preacher could not even “take his text” and went straight to these signs and wonders. although, the spirit is never so high that they have to skip the offering!!!!!!!!!
    i can remember my dear sweet grandmother who has gone on to be with the lord, “comming against the spirit of infirmity” i now wonder if sickeness is not a demon, but rather part of creation until christ does away with sin and death. why are we expecting, no decreeing and declaring it now??

  93. elder jimmy June 5, 2009 at 3:48 pm #

    This is a bit tangental and I certainly don’t require a reply; but why on EARTH did your godmother reveal to you what the young man’s struggle was? THis comment is part rhetorical and part disappointment.

  94. gcmwatch June 5, 2009 at 3:53 pm #

    Well, Im not sure I get the analogy, and wasnt commenting on that. But I will say I dont think its proper to pit Christ’s words against the apostles or the lack thereof. The word of God is one harmonious witness, not one which we should divide. Also Im not sure that citing anecdotal instances is a good way to discover biblical truth. And Im not sure if your argument is against some thing specific I wrote or you are just disagreeing with general position. Im unclear on that, so my response should be taken in that light.

    That being said, you seemed to sidebar Luke 11:24-26.
    Why?

    The passage I cited isnt “obscure” and certainly Im not building “entire theological thesis” on it. Its simply a notation that a possibility exists. Jesus could not have been talking about sinners in that discourse otherwise it would have contradicted the devil being cast out in the first place.

    Im sure there are those who place greater emphasis on demonology, but again Im not sure its fair to use the argument that something in the bible is not important juxtaposed against something else.

    Sorry, if thats not what you were implying.

    I try my best to stick to the issue at hand which was discussing the content of the video.

  95. elder jimmy June 5, 2009 at 3:55 pm #

    That’s what I’m talking ’bout! AMEN

  96. Lavrai June 5, 2009 at 4:26 pm #

    Interesting topic…

    While I do see evidence in the Holy Bible that there are influencing spirits (such as the girl with the spirit of divination that grieved Paul and the seducing spirits in the Book of Revelation that convince the nations to come against the LORD, for example), I have never read anything that even touches a so-called homosexual demon. Paul doesn’t mention this and neither does Moses when the law is issued against homosexuality, incest and bestiality.

    Can spirits influence homosexual behavior and thoughts — why not? If the Holy Spirit ministers to Christians the good things of GOD, why is it unheard of that unclean spirits can influence unholy thoughts and behaviors?

    Are all homosexuals ruled by some kind of unclean spirit? Good question. Are some homosexuals ruled by some kind of spirit, as in a lustful spirit for example? — It’s possible. Once we open ourselves up to sin, we invite all kinds of other things into our lives, including influencing spirits that convince us to stay in sin. I think this goes for all sins.

    But Jesus only cast out/ encountered deaf and dumb spirits as far as I can recall (without turning to my Bible since I’m at work ;), spirits that caused physical harm to people. And Paul cast out that spirit of divination.

    Basically, just like Satan can appear as an angel of light to the undiscerning, so, too can spirits/demons become whatever is necessary to influence a sinful lifestyle.

    If you’re struggling with pornography, a spirit may just come hang out with you to encourage you to stay in pornography. Is it then a pornography demon (that’s actually funny)?

    If we don’t walk in the Holy Spirit, then we’re susceptible to any spirit/demonic force.

  97. blkrepublican June 5, 2009 at 4:27 pm #

    i was refering to rogers analogy about ownership and his contention about a christian being “opressed and afflicted” be demons. he used and analogy about having title to a car ( a saved christian) and not having posession of it yet (a demon can still posess you). i was disagreeing with his analogy.
    you misunderstand my handling of the luke passage. i am not pitting one scripture against another. as i have said many times now, demons are real, do posess people and can be cast out. so, i hope i am clear on that. my contention has always been about christians.
    an issue i am raising is about how we take texts out of context and use them as a pretext to proove whatever point we want to make. it is important to look at scripture in its entirety and put our focus on where god puts his focus and tell us to put our focus. i don’t believe that demons should be christians focus. not because they are not real or mentioned in scripture, but rather that they are not central to nor the focus of gods plan for the new testament chruch. that’s just my opinion. if folks want to spend hours (literally) as in the video on demons, then they are welcome to. i just feel as a believer that we have so much more to focus on to become mature believers. we need to focus more on evangelism outside of the 4 walls. how can we exptect the chruch to be the light when we are always ” in service” 7 nights per week? where is the sound biblical teaching? where is the fellowship? where is the corporate reading of scripture?
    i think it is instructive that outside of the gospels we are not instructed on demons. they should not occupy an inordinate amount of our worship services which should be god and christ focus. if we call every problem and struggle a demon, we cannot see our own human frailty and realize the need to depend on christ the more.
    the apostle paul had a thorn in the flesh. he did not rebuke and bind the demon of fleshly thorns! he simply asked (not commanded) god to remove it. when god chose not to (remember god is soverign and some word of faith people are gonna be mad at me) he had to aknowldege gods soverignty and realize that in his weakness gods strength was mad perfect.
    i think that this is the biblical and more appropriate to handle the struggles that we all have with physical ailments and sin in our lives. god will give us the strength to overcome if we just trust him. but again it is easier to blame the devil.

  98. Lavrai June 5, 2009 at 5:13 pm #

    Luke 9:1 Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases…

    Luke 10: 17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”

    18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

    19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

    20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

    I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying, Mark. This passage to me shows that as GOD had given Jesus authority to do all things on earth (Matt 28:18 and John 17:1-2, for example), so too has Jesus given us the authority over spirits — because we are saved/belong to HIM (i.e., “our names are written in heaven”).

    When Jesus tells Peter in Matt 1619: .. “whatever you bind on earth will bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” — Is HE really only speaking to Peter?

    GOD’s power is not dependent on us, like HIS existence is not dependent on whether we acknowledge HIM or not. But these passages clearly show that HE has given us authority and power over demons/spirits.. in the name of Jesus (as the disciples re-affirmed when they returned to the Christ). The ultimate authority, the ultimate power is from GOD, of course, and we can do nothing without HIM.

    But we don’t have to wait around weeping for the LORD to move… we can get up and act under the authority HE has given us. As Paul did with the young girl with the spirit of divination. He didn’t stop and pray to GOD first, he acted — spoke with authority in the name of Jesus and the spirit had to flee.

    And who preached the Good News to cast out a demon? As far as Christ Jesus shows us in the Holy Bible, commanding/ordering the demon out under HIS authority is what works.

    Don’t you think Satan knows the Gospel, considering he quoted Scripture to Jesus Christ during the temptation and has many a false teachers twisting the Good News from the pulpit? Don’t you think seducing spirits that have folks believing all kinds of non-Biblical lies (like homosexuality is clean, for example) know the Bible and the Gospel?

  99. Delivered and Healed June 6, 2009 at 3:50 am #

    I am confused and for many years thought that I was demon (gay) possessed. But when I look at videos and think about it…it just seems all WRONG. When you read about Jesus and the Apostles, demons went out straightway or in that same hour (we have the same hour but nothing goes out straightway). Jesus also said we are to be doing greater works but it seems that the works we do is the same works Jesus did and that is somewhat iffy! Remember Peter’s shadow healed a man…but we get crazy deliverance like in the video (I do believe something happened cause he shook and was somewhat not HIMSELF) where you cough, throwup, and foam at the mouth. Then it takes forever for it to GO away…Either we have to evaluate the problem and GO back to GOD and stop relying on the GIFTINGS. I remember as a young one in the gospel, I was talking to a youth and as I talked with him, he was trying to talk like everything was fine but I noticed down in my spirit that something was wrong; what I noticed was the spirit of fear and depression. I rebuked it in the name of JESUS and immediately it was CAST out.

  100. Delivered and Healed June 6, 2009 at 3:53 am #

    This was straightway deliverance and he did not cough and I did not lay hands (cause we are not to do that suddenly! :) Is this how deliverance is suppose to be? And the bible does not talk about deliverance being a process ALL of the time…GMCW please bring clarity

    BTW–I am free and delivered moslestation and being sexually abused…

  101. Delivered and Healed June 6, 2009 at 4:12 am #

    Lavari that is a good point: “If you’re struggling with pornography, a spirit may just come hang out with you to encourage you to stay in pornography. Is it then a pornography demon (that’s actually funny)?”

    It is funny in that there is no such demon ever mentioned in the bible but it would fall under perversion! I think that we need to research that spirit cause it is deep from sex to lying…the spirit of perversion can cover homosexuality as well. I am somewhat confused because, murder is in the commandments and we should not do it but if I murder someone is that the spirit of murder? If I have sex out of wedlock (hurry lord and send my wife :) is that a perverted spirit? Also, we see in the gospels Jesus casting out spirits that governed sickness and diseace but in the letters no such a thing…Was the young man that took his fathers wife in 1 Corinth 5 demon possessed? Demons being cast out in the letters are rare in any at all…why is that?

  102. Jonathan June 9, 2009 at 4:32 pm #

    I have been apart of the pentecostal church all my life. I am african american having had attended both HBCU’s for undergrad and grad. After watchimg this video I can truly say that black people are so silly and do more damage than help. Why are they doing this child like this. Many leaders have no understanding of the bible and handle it wrong. NOw when that boy growns up filled with hurt and angry with the balcj church this video explains why. Reading some of these comments shows people don’t have any understanding of scripture.

    GCMW: Jonathan, feel free to correct what ever misunderstanding of the scriptures you see in the comments. I’m very interested in reading your perspective. Perhaps I’m missing something, but the young man looks “grown” to me. Also, are you saying that since you attended “both HBCU’s for undergrad and grad” that has qualified you biblically?

  103. journeytaker June 13, 2009 at 6:51 pm #

    Something is just wrong with the way this is done period. I mean from the way the “preacher is speaking” to how the man is “holding” this young man. These people seem so jumpy and “bug eyed” as if this is spooking them out. The gloves have me baffled too, I don’t remember ever seeing anyone use gloves when casting out a demon. I have seen demons cast out, but not like this before. NO one should have to go through all of this and throw up to prove that a demon is being cast out.

    There is no biblical model for what they are doing in this video. She is using the name of Jesus as a mantra rather than focusing on HIs finished work on the cross. HIs blood has delivered us all, and will continue that sanctification process. She has made a spectacle of what should be a wonderful and glorious experience of true deliverance. I know what the genuine is like, and this is NOT it.

    I have seen some deliverances that as the demon was leaving the person looked and sounded non human, but there was no “holy water” or throwing up involved. This is just wrong on soooooo many levels!

    I do not see a homosexual demon in scripture, but I do see unclean spirits mentioned. Unclean spirits will manifest themselves many ways, and to fool ourselves into thinking that they prefer one type of uncleanness over another is exactly what satan wants us to get bogged down in.

  104. Carlos June 20, 2009 at 11:33 pm #

    I have Craige Lewis’ DVD set, THE TRUTH BEHIND HIP HOP, and I know that he says homosexuality is a demon that needs to be cast out (I think he says this in part 3). But I’ve also seen online testimonies that had nothing to do with demons and it was just a matter of God changing their desires and having self-control:

    casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled. -2 Cor. 10.5-6

    But I also read this guy’s testimony from Australia (he thought he was born gay but got delivered) and he said that bisexuals, lesbians and gays all have the same demon but some have a harder grip on the person than others:

    christianityandhomosexuality.com

    So which one is it? All these people seem very sincere and look like God has really touched their lives and delivered them, but someone’s theology is inconsistent/wrong. Is there a homosexual demon? Or is it the spirit of Lust and/or the natural, perverted wickedness of all human beings?

    Psalm 58
    3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;
    These who speak lies go astray from birth.

    Genesis 8
    21 The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.

    Romans 3
    10 as it is written:
    “None is righteous, no, not one;
    11 no one understands;
    no one seeks for God.
    12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
    no one does good,
    not even one.”

  105. chandra June 26, 2009 at 2:11 am #

    We all have to read and learn the bible for ourselves, but it clearly states God doesnt like this type of behaviro. This is history repeating itself “Solomon and Gamora”. We as people have to learn not to do as the world but to do as GOD instructed us to do. that’s way the Bible is here as a tool for learning. Take the time to read Rev, Genesis, Matthew and ask for understanding. Rev clearly speaks of what will happen to those who lives in sin and those who dont, but we all have to face judgement and will be judge occuring to our works on this earth. Do you want to live a life with JESUS or with the devil.

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