AIB “discussion” with gcm pastors

As I prepare them, I will be posting several videos of the discussion I had with Rev. Dennis Meredith and Rev. Kathi Martin about homosexuality and the black church. We did this in June on Atlanta Interfaith Broadcasters “In Focus” program. I say discussion because the hour long talk was heavily edited by AIB so you won’t see the snippets of friction that did occur. Also, the format didn’t allow for a true debate. Perhaps that may explain my bored look at times. Be aware that I also had to edit down for YouTube. But what you can glean you will see that they are almost cookie cutter gcm adherents. The quality of the video is not optimum. Feel free to comment.

Related post: AIB show set to air during “gay pride”

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8 thoughts on “AIB “discussion” with gcm pastors

  1. Pastor Foster:

    Something has been really bothering me. I don’t know if you caught Oprah last Friday. Her show had two young transexual persons, one F2M and one M2F. Also there was the M2F transexual doctor who is still married (to a woman) and has children. The 21 year old M2F says “she” once believed in God and prayed as a little boy to Him to make him a girl. Since God did not respond, he took matters in his own hands or to put it correctly put in the hands of psychologist and surgeons. This phenomena is really disheartening.

    How do we as evangelical Christians deal with this. The Transgendered community is trying to sway the APA to take gender dsyphoria off the DSM list. Dr. Gagnon’s essay on Transexuality and Ordination is helpful, but this is deeply confusing. It is rapidly that evangelicals and other orthodox Christians are the enemies of America in these matters. I’m sure there are many people in the evangelical/Pentecostal churches dealing with gender identity disorders. Psychologists are claiming the only way to relieve these persons of their suffering is hormone therapy and surgery. Many are committing suicide.

    God truly made man as male and female. Body soul and spirit is our whole being. We are not spirits floating in the our bodies. We are bodily beings. That what makes us human. This is truly spiritual warfare against people’s minds. Any advice on the matter? Thanks.

  2. Edit for Youtube? Why? Length? If so, use Google video. They do not have a length limitation. If the content (censorship) is the issue, then I guess you would have to use GodTube. Unfortunately, GodTube does not allow you to do embeds as of yet!

  3. I just watched this young man’s comments on Leviticus 18:22,

    Thous shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” KJV

    He gave a interesting response. In its historical context the Israelites were trying the populate the nation. Here’s a problem with his argument from the literary and the historical context.

    a) Literary context: The first two verses of Leviticus begins, “And the LORD spake unto Moses, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God.”

    So the text indicates the following laws are given to Moses by the LORD

    b) The ending passages say the following:

    24″Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

    25And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

    26Ye shall the therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

    27For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)

    28That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

    29For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that committ them shall be cut off from among their people.

    30Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of the abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.”

    All the practices including uncovering a kin’s nakedness, adultery, sacrificing the children to Molech, male homosexual practice, and bestiality; the LORD God concludes that these practices defile the land. The Canaanites before them did these practices and defiled the land. There is not reference to God denouncing male homosexual practice because of population. He just says: “It is abomination”.

    Historical context: The Israelites were very populous during the time of the Exodus and in the wilderness. The Canaanites and their follow pagans didn’t have problems populating even when men were sleeping with men. Many of these men were married to women with children as was their custom. However, the LORD didn’t not give a reason that would agree with this young man’s rationale. At the beginning of the text the LORD told Moses to speak to Israel and told them to keep his ordinances and don’t defile themselves with these practices, because he is the LORD their God. It’s the practices which are defiling. All of them!

    Logic: If the young man is saying that population was an issue, that would mean all the practices the LORD condemned would be permissible for Christians to practice. Would this young man sleep with his brother, his uncle, his father, his half-brother? Would he sleep with a male deer, or a bull, or a male dog? Would he sacrifice his child to another god? Because if sleeping with men is permissible to him in a loving committed relationship, then all of these practices are permissible.

    I’m sure the young man wouldn’t agree with this logic. So it begs the question, why does he think excusing one practice out the many practices which are defile in the eyes of the LORD okay? Because he’s in a deeply committed relationship with another man?

    I’m sure many adulterers are deeply committed relationships. I’m sure that a man who sleeps with his cow loves his cow. I’m sure that a woman who considers her brother as a fine compatible companion sees no harm in pursuing him if he is willing. But those who commit such acts have defiled themselves before the eyes of the LORD. Sin is transgression of the law, the whole law! James makes it clear:

    “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” 2:10 KJV

    Thank God for Jesus because he paid the debt of sin and freed us those who believe on his name from perishing. His father should have told him the Gospel truth. That young man can come out of sin. His father added to his confusion and unfortunately if he and his dad does not repent of this error, this young man and many others in that church will perish, but the blood is on his father’s hands.

  4. I didnt see Oprah…thankfully.

    Jason, I agree it is deeply troubling as you stated, on several fronts. And it appears that all of them will have direct impact on the church.

    Gender confusion —in context– is just another sinful condition gone wild. Im sure in Gods eyes it is not alarming.

    But from our perspective it is alarming. First, what do we do? Do we get into a political fight with the APA? Current culture norms will probably hand the transgenders a victory. But this with the APA is not the root of the problem, its a symptom. I dont want to sound overly religious but the answer to the aberrant situations people are in is the hope of the gospel of Christ. My feeling is that the evangelical too often want to fight a political battle, but will not soil themselves in ministry for the same issue. That’s backward.

    You and I both know that the church is basically in an infantile stage of understanding and dealing with homosexualtiy. Some of that is self-inflicted. (Hosea 4:6) They refuse to see it as a normal sin, thus it can not have a “normal” resolution. This creates more confusion both for those sincerely seeking help. Eventually because of ignorance, they accept that help is not meant to be. So how do you educate a church that doesnt want to be educated? On one side we face ignorance and apathy, on the other hostility and anger.

    Now, if there this much fumbling and stumbling over homosexuality, dealing with gender confusion is out of the question.

    Jason when it comes down to it, we have to own the solution, dig our heels in deep and dedicate our lives to it. We can sit around and hope that others wake up and do something, but maybe God is saying “You do something.” Jesus pointed out the BIG problem in John 4:35 The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Pray that the Lord of the harvest send laborers into the field.

    Ok, so lets talk about this….

  5. htl,
    yeah youtube is 10 minute limit. But I dont have the pc capacity to do that much at one setting. Its not a content thing, I will post the rest in two separate vids. I will check out the Google vids. I think they pull up in YT anyway, right?

    Plus, YT is more visible/popular. I know about Godtube but if theyre gonna get in the game, they need to step up.

  6. The population argument is completely ignorant of the text. There was no such command not to commit homosexuality for population purposes. Where would he get an idea like that?

    Although there was no specific count, they left Egypt over 1 million strong, not including children. A military census taken not long after listed the number of men 20 years of age and older who could serve in the army as 603,550 (Exodus 38:26). From that number, the total Israelite population of that time has been estimated at approximately 2 to 3 million.

    “But the descendants of Israel were fruitful and increased greatly; they multiplied and grew exceedingly strong; so that the land was filled with them.” (Exodus 1:7 RSV).

    Jason you made very some keen observations. The younger Meredith was hit and miss guessing at best.

    I always say that the gcm have some of the most transparently false logic I have ever heard in my life. But they use it against people who dont study their Word.

    More on this later

  7. gcmwatch: Yeah, they pull up in the same. Google bought YouTube, remember? Google is actually the better product simply to upload and store your videos. But if you want to be in a “video sharing/social networking community” sort of thing, then Google is behind not only YouTube but also AOL and Myspace. My only use for Google right now is to store the videos that I embed in WordPress. If anyone else finds them any other way, then that is fine too.

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