An important question on homosexuality

Minister Laneen Haniah at Christian Sexuality blog is asking a question which deserves a lot of attention. Can a homosexual be a Christian? It may just be one of the most important questions of our time. Considering the massive influence homosexual culture —both secular and religious— have had upon the contemporary church, we need to be sure what we believe and we’d better have those beliefs firmly rooted in scripture. Not in a judgmental, legalistic way, but in a way which affirms our trust in God’s word and ultimately the God of the Word.

She has opened up the discussion on her blog with the following questions: Are the terms “homosexual” and “Christian” in direct contradiction and opposition to one another? Or, is it possible to be both?

Since we have hit at it back and forth in some form or another on this site, here’s a good opportunity to really discussed in a dedicated way.  I think Min Haniah is sincere and the question isnt loaded or baited. Just reading it once, I could think of so many things that deserve to be explored, explicity and implicitly.

Go over and weigh in.

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15 thoughts on “An important question on homosexuality

  1. This is a loaded question. First let me say that after I was saved I still had MANY sin issues to take care of. Through the grace of God, time, perseverence, prayer, and dying daily the Lord quickened me and is day by day making me more into the image of his son Jesus Christ. Amen! The real question is can someone be a homosexual and be saved. The answer is no. Can someone be born again and while being a babe in Christ backslide into their past sins regardless of what the sin was? Yes! Many newly “truly” born again people fail miserably and sometimes it takes YEARS to overcome certain sins regardless of what the sin is. However, “IF” you have been truly born again than through Christian maturity moving from a Babe to an Adult in Christ Jesus your former self dies. After more than a decade of being saved I am not the person I was 10 years ago let alone 5 years ago or even 1 year ago.

    Kyle

  2. Kyle so you are making the distinction between being “saved” and being a “Christian”. Just to clarify are you saying the two are different?

    And if you can, explain how the question is loaded.

  3. Q. Kyle so you are making the distinction between being “saved” and being a “Christian

    A. Yes. Anyone can say they are a Christian. Mormons, JW, Catholics, and liberal gay affirming Christians do all the time. Being saved however is not being part of a denomination or movement it means being born again of the Holy Ghost and being forgiven of your sins by the blessed shed blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen!

    Q. how the question is loaded.

    A. I was implying that one who is a babe in Christ can and often does fall back into thier sinful nature. For example, I was saved when I was 18 years old. However, after going to college I engaged in fornication. These acts however tormented me and I knew I was in sin. Did the fact that I backslid into fornication mean I was not a Christian? No! I was a babe in Christ who gave into the weakness of my flesh. With that said let us look at the situation regarding homosexuality. If someone is saved and they were previously in the homosexual lifestyle and by weakness gave into their former sins of homosexuality does that make that person not a Christian? No! But just like my experience I could NOT stay a fornicator because of the conviction of the Holy Ghost. And since then I did repent. However the real question is can someone be a practicing, affirming, and justifying “Homosexual” and a “Christian”. The answer is NO! Just as someone can’t justify any sin and be a Christian.

    Kyle

  4. Kyle: Yes. Anyone can say they are a Christian. Mormons, JW, Catholics, and liberal gay affirming Christians do all the time. Being saved however is not being part of a denomination or movement it means being born again of the Holy Ghost and being forgiven of your sins by the blessed shed blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen!

    GCMW: Although I agree that being saved is not synonymous to church membership, logically anyone could also “claim” to be saved also and not be. That is a mark of the gay christian movement. They claim to be saved, love Jesus and are operating in the gifts of the Spirit. On the other hand if one is truly a Christian, they would not engage in the sins of the world with no remorse or repentance. That seems to be proved by your second response.

    I guess what I am saying is that claiming exclusivity to terms is not what counts, its the evidence of what you claim. And that evidence has to be verified by scripture, not personal experience.

    Having said that, a person cannot be a practicing, unrepentant, habitiual sinner and simultaneously be a Christian (Romans 6:1). Im sure thats not going to stop them from claiming to be so.

  5. All who cries Lord, Lord will not enter into Heaven.

    The long and short of it – we cannot serve two masters nor can sin enter into heaven – whether it is homosexuality or a murder, liar, adulteress and so on…..

    The fact of the matter is you can call your self what ever you want but God will judge you in the end, and I believe that anyone saying they are saved or a Christian and their life does not show it. – This will all come out in the end.

    We need “To Be Christ Like” in our walk, talk we need to be concern how others see us and if we are hiding or being deceiving it must be wrong.

    I remember one thing my Mother would tell me as a young girl: “Things done in Secret will find its way Out”. Sin is sin no matter how we would like to label it, Lot and his family found that out. Satan is out to destroy and false teaching and preaching needs to be stop. Spread the word God is a loving God but he is just God.

    God help us not to be deceived by any means – Try God.
    We can convince our selves of anything we what but the truth of the matter is there is no Gray area when it comes to serving GOD.

  6. If you are born again, then you will AGREE with God that homosexuality is sin. (along with many other sins) But to be a PRACTICING homosexual and thinking it’s ok is to NOT agree with God – this is evidence that that person does not have a new heart given by God. They are still in rebellion because they love their sin.

    We can never be sinless, but when we do sin, if we abhor it and AGREE with God that it is sin and we repent, then we are His. Our new nature dictates that we hate all manner sin, that we sin the way God sees it, as a destroyer. And thusly we will want no parts of it and will repent. But our spirit must be in concert with the Holy Spirit in that we hate that sin. (and all others) You cannot pick and choose which sins are acceptable – ALL manner of sin is against God. To support one and not the other is to be a liar and we deceive ourselves.

  7. SANCTIFICATION – That’s what it all comes down to until you except Jesus Christ as your savior and acknowledge him as the son of God and from there you begin seeking him for a greater relationship. You can be saved (what you think) all day long but when you truly desire to be Christ like and change the way you do things – a song writer wrote ” The Lord has been so good to me he set my captive spirit free old things have past away all things are new today – I’m in a new world since the Lord saved me”. When you are saved begin seeking for SANCTIFICATION then start seeking for the Holy Ghost – we need to draw near to the lord.
    Again as I said you cannot serve two masters – there is no gray area when it comes to serving God.

  8. Cathy I could pay you for saying that. Too many Christians are avoiding basic, fundamentals truths of scripture such as santification, justification, holiness, etc. They are very important to our understanding and development in relationship with the Lord. A practicing homosexal sinner cannot be sanctified unless they have first been justified by faith (Romans 5:1-5) and washed of their sins. That causes us to conform our ways to the Word of God and the image of Christ portrayed in scripture. There is not one instance in scripture where Christ committed a sexual sin or encouraged another to do so. That is not just “the law” or “legalism” that is having the mind of Christ.

  9. I believe a person can be homosexual in orientation and still be a Christian. I think that there is a difference between orientation to same sex attraction and acting on that behavior. Sexual sin is the same as other sins as it relates to obedience to Christ. By that I mean sinners must “go and sin no more” . To have the expectation that one who has turned from sexual practices not permitted in scripture must all have sexual attracton to the opposite sex is unrealistc and harnmful to people who struggle to obey the Word of GOD.The homosexual state is a condition of sin; a part of the fallen nature of man. It is within the carnal nature of man. Just as other Christains struggle to aply the Truth in their thoughts, character, behaviors, etc., the believer who has same sex attractions must struggle to apply the truth to their sexual self. that does not mean that one is not a Christian ismeans that they have the common struggle of ALL believers in Christ have. To abstain from sexual sin, whether that sin is homo or hetero in nature. That is how holiess is pratical, sanctification is progressive WE are sanctified in Christ, we are being sanctified bythe Holy Spirit as we obey the scriptures and we will be ultimatley sanctified when we are in the presence of Christ with glorified bodies; freeof the sin nature and of sin’s influence.

  10. Elder Jimmy thanks for sharing that. You are probably the first one to really hit the holiness.santification angle in relation to “struggling” with homosexuality. But before we discuss that further, can you cite the origin and originators of the term “sexual orientation” and its applicability based on 2 Cor 5:17?

  11. The more pure and holy the heart is, it will have the more quick feeling as to the sin that remains in it. The believer sees more of the beauty of holiness and the excellence of the law. His earnest desires to obey, increase as he grows in grace.

    The LORD knows the thoughts of man,
    That they are futile.

  12. Sorry it took me so long to answer the question. I was recently in the hospital.

    I cannot account for the origins of the term sexual orientation but I do feel it is a more appropriate term than gay lifestyle. When people make reference to the term gay lifestyle thet are usually referring to the sexual practices (behavior) of homosexuals and not necessarily how they live in other aspects of their lives. Just as surely as the term black lifestyle would not be applicable for how all people of African decent live neither does the aformentioned term apply to all homosexuals. Sexual orientation speaks to the principle or sole attraction one has in relation to their sexuality. I think it is a fair term. I also believe when you are trying to reach a certain group of people one must use the terms that group has chosen to define themselves (with some limitations of course). For example; an evangelist trying to reach the disabled community would be fooloish to use the archaic term “invalid”.

    2 Corinthians 5:17 is not a declaration of a free pass for everything that was wrong with us before we became believers. I think in context Paul is writing regarding our spiritual standing in Christ and and in making an appeal for the church to raise their consciousness in relation to Christ’s sacrfice to have a spiritually renewed view of Christ. Verse 15 says those who live should no longer live for themselves but for HIM who died and was raised again. I believe Paul’s emphais is behavior and perspective If any man be in Christ he is a new creation… This must mean a spiritual creation since w know that the Christian life isone of progression in obedience to Christ. In Ephesians Paul reminds the saints of their new position in Christ and appeals to them to bring their behavior up to their spiritual standing. Also, Colossias 3: If ye then be risen with Christ seek those things which are above where Christ sits at the right hand of God (in God’s authority) and not on the earthly things (correlates with Paul’s use of the word “worldly” in 2 Cor.) For you died andyour life is hiden with Christ in God. Obviously he is not referring to a natural death but a spiritual one of the old life or “nature”. Paul then repeatedly encorages the believer to crucify the deeds of the flesh; the works of the flesh; the deeds of the body; the carnal nature, etc. Therein is the struggle to completely follow Christ inhow we live. I believe that would include the thoughts and deeds. It is in the presenting of the body (which is unredeemed in full yet) as a sacrifice that we experience the full expression of God’s will DESPITE having desires that do not represent who we have become in the Spirit. Whether those desires are to lie, cheat, covet, commit adultery, idolize or engage in sexual activity not sanctioned in scripture.

    Perhaps those who forgo engaging in homosexual acts are those who Jesus reffered to as “eunuchs for the kingdom’s sake” in the gospel.
    I hope this lends some light to my position. I also hope you are able to follow my trend of thought.

  13. Elder Jimmy sorry to hear you were in the hospital hope you are doing much better.

    At issue with your remarks, is the question can an adopted “orientation”, which is understandably humanistic in origin, be co-equal with a biblical spiritual orientation i.e. that of the new creation.
    The term was overwhelmingly adopted by political gays in concert with their chief ally the APA to change the public perception they had chosen to be gay. Previously, the term sexual preference was used by said group. The choice to change language was to lay the groundwork to achieve political victories which needed the “science” of being born gay behind it.

    But God only created one orientation. You know that. Man was sexually, emotionally and relationally oriented to woman. And that was pronounced “good”. And that was all that God created. Sin has created other orientations and now they are asking to be equal and valid alongside what God created.

    You may have a slightly naive perception of the use of the term “sexual orientation”. It is not simply just an identifier of sexual preference, but it is used to mean identity. That identity according to those proponents of it, is what they were born as. The language of the world has never meshed well with God’s design. Much of it is to avoid truth about one’s spiritual condition.

    Does this not clash with the Bible’s “be born again” command? Doesnt it clash with the Bible’s “new creation” (new identity) declaration? How then would one continue to identify with something which the scriptures say is rooted in one’s sinful past?

    I agree with you, the mentioned scripture is about our positional holiness, yet it is not alone. There is the practical holiness of cleansing ourselves from the filthiness of the flesh. There is the practical holiness of casting down vain imaginations which seek to exalt themselves above the knowledge of Christ.

    Thus it becomes problematic at the least for someone to claim to homosexual, but at the same time claim to be a true disciple of Jesus Christ.

  14. We are in agreement with the progressive wotk of the Holy Spirit in personal sanctification. I made that point in my post before the one in question.
    As a practical response to your position. If one is a glutton when he is saved does he automatically cease his gluttonous appetites? Would you take the same position with someone who was a serial adulterer whose lust was the meter for how they practiced their sexualtiy?

    Of course God created only one orientation but we are not living in the state of God’s untainted created worls. We live in a sin stained existecne. David prayed; “In sin did my mother conceive me…” The same sinful state that brings forth two headed babies also brings forth the sexual deviancy of humanity from God ‘s original intention or design. I fing your position a distinction without a difference, really. I don’t feel that people are born gay accross the board. I think some people are born with a predisposition towards homosexuality. Just as others are born with a predisposition to alcoholism. I see it as a sin issue. Just as surely as an alcoholic may not find immediate freedom from his desire to drink and homosexual person may not find immediate delieverance from his sexual attraction. I don’t see a difference. Unless that new Christian immediately begins to feel a singular sexual attraction to the opposite sex they are still homosexual whether they say they are or not. I do see your point about the identity piece, though. It may help one who is struggling to no longer use the language of the former life. I get that. That was not my point thopugh. I was speaking of the simple issue of sexual attraction. Homosexual is a clinical term it is not a religious one. Religious terms are in the bible, such; as dogs, sodomites, and the like. Homosexual describes the clinical term for a male or fermale who is singularly or primarily sexually attracted to the same sex. That may be true of converts to Christianity whether they call themselves that or not.

  15. Hey, sorry about the errors, I’m on the run and didn’t have a chance to check. Peace in the Most wonderful Name

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