A little bit of hard preachin’

Bishop Liston Page, Jr. does the run down on the lack of discipline in today’s church. What do you think? Is he right, wrong or plain crazy? 


26 thoughts on “A little bit of hard preachin’

  1. Well,…….The church certainly needs to return to discipline but I don’t think Bishop Liston Page is helping the issue.

    I held a forum on the lack of male attendance to church once of men that ran from the approximate ages of 17-66 years. What came out of it was this type pf preaching often keeps men from reurning after a visit to church or from becoming more involved.

    Men do NOT like to be talked down to or yelled at especially in front of their wives, daughters, mothers and sisters. When preachers do this they harm their own effort in incorporating men.
    I do not mean to say that you don’t address serious sin issues or other hard things but what most men need isexplanation, logical and reasonable presentations of the bible.
    The muslim mosques offer that to the men who attend (I am speaking of black muslims). There also needs to be time for questions to be answered and ways to process what has been heard. We can learn much from the way we see Jesus interacting with his disciples.. I tink the average preacher spends very little time with the men of his congregation. Effective discipline flows best in relationship. You can’t discipline people from the pulpit via sermons.I certainly love to hear aspeaker who is impassioned by his subject matter but there is entirely too much screaming and appeal to emotion for most men. Church men have becme conditioned to this type of misapplied discipline. Question: How doyou advocate for a return to discipline when YOU have used language that is best left OUT of the pupit, where is the discipline in THAT?
    Conclusion: He’s a little right, a little crazy and a little wrong; like all of us somtimes.

  2. That was pretty good. He wasn’t holding anything back. I certainly agree with some things he was saying like the discipline of Muslims.

  3. Okay Elder Jimmy, that was a good one. Should a preacher who is PREACHING on discipline be disciplined enough not to use certain language in the pulpit?

    You have some interesting views re HOW men should be talked to in church. I noticed it was the women screaming and whooping. The men were a little reserved. But in black churches especially, this is almost normative.

    Are you saying that the men should be segregated and talked to [read:yelled at] or should one simply never speak hard when men and women are present?

    I agree: a little right, a little wrong and a little crazy! 🙂

  4. i cant see the video right now but I hope this isnt one of those “men cant submit to authority” type of messages….

  5. Yes, I agree the men that we saw were a little reserved. Bishop Liston was making the point that our churches are inordinately attended by men as compared to the mosques. This may well be because of the approaches we take in addressing men re: issues of leadership, accountability, spiritual maturity, etc., with them. I sure don’t mean to make the sisters mad at me but pastors must be careful to present info to the “bretheren” in the presence of women that doesn’t diminish or berate them. Which is often done. Women then have a habit of reminding the men what the pastor said. NOT a wise move, ladies.

    I think in a lot of cases it is entirely appropriate to teach men separately from women. It may even be necessary when dealing with certain issues.
    You can certainly deal with men in a firm manner but when you start screaming and yelling at men you’ve ceased to treat them like men but instead like boys. Titus 2:1-8 seems to imply that there should be different focus points for the men and women . perhpas those things are adressed in submeetings in a local church. We should teach discipline by modeling it modeling it as well as presenting the precepts. We have to learn how to rationally present reasons for the faith we hold. The Christian Cultural Center’s pastor (his name escapes me) has a church full of men. I think in large part due to his approach. He is a former black muslim.

  6. Folks, keep in mind that Islam as a whole is much much more dictorial and indeed can be quite dangerous to leave the local masjid!!

    Also, some of its more bizare teachings are strongly in favor of men…..it is a very macho faith…islam that is.

    I am a white Christian in Canada and quite usually you will see the Women folk outnumber the men folk in our Churches too….so I don’t think you are dealing with a unique phenomna….

    I am not sure exactly what the root problem is but it does have to be addressed to be sure!!

  7. my two cents: I didn’t really disagree with anything Bishop Page said, but I tend to think it is important for our leaders to raise God up, not the man in the pulpit. Sometimes this style sides steps God and makes the proclaimer the center of attention. I also think there is a time a place for ‘men’ talk and ‘women’ talk. Squeezing into a size 6 when one is a size 20 may make a point about ‘free willy’, :0 but I would have chosen a verse of scripture about such issues of proper dress etc.. Don’t get me wrong Dr Caner at LU has a style of ‘hard preaching’ & a in your face kind of way about him, but raising up and giving glory to God and not the messenger must be the message folks walk away with.

  8. Bishop Liston Page is a poor authority on anything. His does not preach from the Word of God, but from his own feelings and opinions which are most often homophobic, bigoted and inappropriate. Every summer my church in Baltimore hosts a church convocation. Liston Page has preached at this convocation for the past two years or so. Every year that he has preached he has said something that has no foundation in the Word of God and is totally wrong. Here are several of his hits:
    1. All women with tattoos are whores
    2. Kill all homosexuals
    3. Ask your Pastor for permission before you make a big purchase.

    Usually after he goes on screaming for a hour or more he would raise a special offering. He would call up a female out of the audience and tell her that God wants to sow a seed in her life. He would then tell everyone to come up and place a seed in the young lady’s hand. After collecting the money in her hand, you woould expect her to go off with the special offerring right? NOOOOOOOO!!!!! He would then instruct that young lady to take that money and place it at the feet of her Pastor because in order to get her blessing she has to sow this seed into her Pastor.

    PURE MESS!!!!!!!!!

  9. Okay Nat, I have never been in a service with him but did see him on TBN once. He seemed to be sane but I guess that was just a TV performance.

    I smell some pimpology going on if what youre saying is true.

  10. Page’s direct quote on homesexuals:

    “Just don’t kill the one faggot you hate, kill them all”

    For the past several years that he has come to my church my two children ask can they be allowed not to attend the evening that Page preaches because the says negative things from the pulpit.

    From the mouth of babes…………………………

    GCMW note: Sufficient evidence was provided to let this quote stand.

  11. GCMW: Stunned.

    Can you provide any more evidence: Date, time, location, event, context? You will need to do so via email so we can preview. gcmwatch@yahoo.com
    Nat, if youre unwilling I will have to remove that comment.

    We do not endorse homosexuality in any way, and believe it is an irrevocable sin, but advocating killing somebody is near criminal, if not criminal.

    We may need to ask Bishop to respond to that if he said it. That is true hate speech.

  12. I could hear men and women bearing witness to what he was saying also. Men do have a problem with accountability and women are dressing too provocatively in the church now the too tight pants low cut tops and dresses that are too street looking. You go to some churches now and it looks like you are at the movies, the club, a sports game or something else other than the Lords sanctuary. People are wearing whatever and saying, I just want to be comfortable. It’s starting to look like a hot mess up in what is supposed to be a house of instruction and praise for God

  13. Not that everything he said was bad, but it was a sermon from emotion and not scripture.

    He’s upset WE can’t draw people, but if we look at scripture:
    John 6:44 (New American Standard Bible)

    44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

    We tell the message of truth and leave it at that. We don’t play numbers games. I was once a member of assembly of 30,000+ with a building that held 10,500 per service. We were on spiritual life support and didn’t even know it! Those who are still there, still are. But they’ve got numbers. We saints should not seek to make a set of numbers. We study, pray, tell the truth and leave it there.

    The “dummy up the street” comment. It just rubbed of Matthew 5:22.

    And as someone already mentioned, there was no real “self control” on his part, Galatians 5:22-23. He started to speak foul, stopped himself and did it minutes later.

    Honestly, I have never heard of him before, but I wonder if he ever preaches the message of Jesus and Him crucified?

    I have no clue what scripture he was expounding on.

    He spoke of “milk the whole…” And came with the bravado of “yea I said it” afterwards. No self control. How come Jesus and the apostles never had to speak like that?

    And when it comes to groups that look moral, legalism always wins. Sure Muslim nations have their form of “order”, but they don’t have the Savior (except those few who have accepted Christ and live in fear and hiding). Not an excuse to sin, but in comparison, the Pharisee looked better rules wise than the average Corinthian church member. And when the Corinthian church got out of line, God had Paul offer plenty of words to help them get in line. Words Liston Page would have done well to speak from, instead of from the top of his head.

    Did Liston Page say anything that someone like Bill Cosby would not say to an audience in a slightly cooler tone? And when Bill goes out to speak, he’s not talking about Christ, just some secular words of some good from what God has given him via common grace, but a pastor is to take the message to the saving grace of the cross.

    Time to dig up the oldie but goodie for folks to reference:
    What is Christ centered preaching?

  14. As usual, IC, good points.
    As it relates to “the numbers game” as you described it I agree we MUST leave the results of the preaching of Christ (if that’s what one is preaching) but I doubt that the Holy Spirit is calling women at such a higher rate than men in the black church. Of course Iam speaking in general terms. The issue of the lack of conversions of men in the black church may very well have to do with how we preach Christor our failure to present the gospel apart from our cultural biases, misunderstandings, and a presentation that is often geared to appealing to female emotions. Hyperemotionalism and using terms of endearment like :honey, baby, sweetheart, darling, etc., may be reasons why some churches have very low male attendance. Thqt was/is the point I was trying to make.

  15. I would like to say that Christians often disregard the message and kill the messenger, just like those that crucified Christ for his radical “Kingdom Agenda.” Can we for once listen to the message, take the things out that can help us to grow, leave whatever does not help us to grow and go on ??? We are our brother’s keeper, but more importantly let’s love our brothers (and sisters) not throw them in the pit all the time because of their dreams. We have been running out of “brothers” lately.
    Dave in Dallas

  16. No one is killing the messenger. Those who proclaim the message must be careful to represent Christ appropriately. Moses misrepresented the LORD in smiting the rock the second time when he was told to speak to the rock. He was severely chastened by the LORD for that. I know that philosophy of eat the meat and spit out the bones but sometimes bones choke you; especially immature believers. The bar MUST be raised for those of us in ministry. Time out for provocative speech for the purpose of provocation. Provoaction to what end? TEACH THE WORD. Exegete a scripture or two, please. Stop trying to entertain the people. reprove, rebuke with all longsuffering and doctrine; for the time HAS COME that the people have heaped unto themselves teachers because they have ears that itch for something other than the Word of GOD. The epistle of James said that we who teach will be much more harshly judged so we should be careful about our words and the way we handle the LORD’s people.
    We must learn to preach and teach for long term benefits of the people being conformed to Christ not merely for effect (yelling standing up to signify agreement, waving hands, shouting, jumping, etc.) Makle sure the people UNDERSTAND. I don’t meanto sound harsh but I fell we have to make some real changes. Blessings to you too. Merry Christmas. Noel.

  17. Bishop Page is an ********. He may preach strong, but his heart is FAR from God.

    GCMW: Ms Robinson, you have to provide evidence of this accusation.

  18. Not a problem. What evidence would suffice? I have text messages from him where he tells me if I don’t sleep with him (a married man) then he doesn’t want to talk to me. Mind you, I called him for pastorial counseling after I went through a similar situation with my former pastor Bishop Noel Jones. I have evidence that both are living foul.

    GCMW: Thanks, just make sure you keep those text messages for yourself! PS thats a serious charge. What year was that?

  19. I agree with some of the things I have read on this page alot of what elder jimmy says. We do need to teach the man in diffrent forum there should be a time where the precher get together with the men and hear their heart and let them know his(things he has told me) I also believe (being a black man) this kind of message has to be preach in the black chruch, because today’s generation is more hardcord,the men do lack what they need to be real men and so we sometime need that in you face preching. Yes, at times women use it for there gain but remember for years we’ve preach on what they should be doing and how the man are the heads why wouldn’t they want see it and not just hear it. Paul said that (paraphase) he went to some and appear like them to win some, that leads me to believe that sometimes you come were people live

  20. I think we sometimes forget that preachers are men themselves ,Gods man ,but still men now I don’t know what e-mails Ms. Robinson has gotten from the Bishop but it appear to me the comment he made to her was not an Invitation for sex but one of,your not my wife so why answer to you right or wrong thats what it looks like to me. You know we talk about keep it real but thats meant for everyone but the man of God.The bible says that God never changes, I believe that but I also believe that evangelism styles must change with the changing times.

  21. Bro. Derrick….

    Not to belabor the point and take away from the topic at hand, but the messages I received were “invitations for sex”. Since I didn’t want to acquiesce he didn’t want to further the communication. I did not misunderstand. He was very clear.

  22. I did not get a response yet could you please see that she has my right e-mail Thankyou

    GCMW: Bro Adams, It might just be that she does not want to respond. If you want to discuss this further, please send an email. This is inappropriate for the comments section.

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