Kirbyjon Caldwell, Obama's six degrees of homosexuality

cadlwell.jpgRev. Kirbyjon Caldwell(pictured left with Bush), the black pastor of Houston’s Windsor Village UMC (ironically called “Kingdom Builders”) decided to flex his political kingmaker muscles and endorsed Obama for President. Homosexual activists supporting Obama were delighted. Wow, they cooed, another black preacher onboard the Obamatrain. But when they started checking Caldwell’s church website, they found something so horrible, it sparked outrage.

Windsor Village had a ministry (google cache thanks to Warren Throckmorton) that helped people struggling with homosexuality to overcome it. You’d think that  that would be normal in the church. After all, the church has other minstries claiming to help people get delivered from acoholism, cocaine addiction, lupus, sexual assault, adultery and even arthritis.

The website said the ministry was “A program created to provide Christ Centered instruction for those seeking freedom from homosexuality, lesbianism, prostitution, sex addiction and other habitual sins.”

I’d known this for quite sometime. As a matter of fact when it was started a longtime friend of mine who was a member of the church called me excited about it. It became part of our black church resource listing.

But when the activists found out, they immediately launched operation internet outrage about Caldwell’s evil “exgay” group. In their eyes, it was like running a mobile concentration camp.

They contacted Caldwell and demanded to know why he would allow such a ministry in his church. So, did the pastor defend the ministry on the grounds that homosexuality was sinful and people needed the church’s help to be free from it?

Not on your life.

Instead, Caldwell had the offensive ministry deleted from the site and denied ever knowing  it was there. According to interview Caldwell took the road of least resistance. After all what black preacher wants gay activists angry at him for preaching that homosexuals can change?

“I got to tell you, this is going to sound real stupid, but I didn’t know it was on our website,” Caldwell said. “I was surprised and embarrassed by it. I’m embarrassed from the standpoint that I should have known. We have 120 ministries at the church. You can’t be on top of everything.”

When asked if he opposed such programs, Caldwell said: “It’s not a ministry of the church. It is not supported financially by the church. It is not located at the church. That is pretty much where I am with it.”

Notice, he skirted the question. But, let’s say he didn’t know the ministry was listed on his church’s website. As pastor of the nation’s largest UMC one would think that Caldwell was capable of thinking on his own. His bio emphatically states that one of the driving principles behind Windsor Village’s growth from 25-14,000 is  contributed to “Pastor Caldwell’s belief that the church must embrace theology, identify societal problems, and deliver solutions holistically. In other words, the church must take the “sanctuary” to the streets.”

Oh. Really? (That’s rank sarcasm in case you missed it.)

When Politico asked Caldwell if he supported gay marriage or civil unions, the highly successful pastor replied: “I would need to check with the church.”

As we warned, any black pastor who wants to partner with Obama publicly means you will have to squirm, cower and recant all of your previous biblical beliefs about homosexuality.

Just ask Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell. We did, but there was no response to our email and phone call.

Update: Be sure to check out Independent Conservative’s post on Kirbyjon Caldwell. Our condolences to Barbara Hicks, the woman on the Windsor Village staff whom Caldwell publicly sold out to the gay activists.


44 thoughts on “Kirbyjon Caldwell, Obama's six degrees of homosexuality

  1. Wow, I am so very, very disappointed. I always liked him. When our girls went through confirmation class they went to a service there (they are on the opposite end of Houston from us). I got to attend one and thought it was good.

    He had a huge chance and blew it. Shame on him.

  2. Neil, I was very dissapointed to read this story.

    I just cant understand why with all the power, influence education, etc men like Caldwell have why they are so intimidated by stuff like this.

    It must be a spiritual thing.

    Its not like he would have lost his church or had his pay sliced in half to say the ministry isnt a church sanctioned one, but I do support it.


  3. “I would need to check with the church.”

    Really? If he doesn’t know 1. where the UMC stands on same sex marriage he should be out. I gotta wonder what his bishop thinks of his lazy knowledge. 2. He is lying and in my opinion a coward. Leading the church is the last place a liar should be employed.

    He dodged the question about the existence of the ministry because he, like many others, believe folks are born “gay” and is afraid to stand on the solid rock of scripture in fear he may have to pick up his own cross. Or perhaps Obama’s election has become more important than, oh I dunno, God’s word? Shame on him!

    I am glad Obama is running for President, he sure is making it easy to spot a “tare”.

  4. Joe, Im sure the good reverend’s speaking calendar won’t suffer any behind his rather cowardly actions. When youve got 14000 members, thats good enough for some of the “leaders” in todays church.

    Integrity and holding fast to the gospel purpose has taken a back seat to motivation inspiration and feel good, pop culture christianity.

    Such is NOT the kingdom of God.

  5. You know Pastor Foster,
    Many blacks are throwing out the God’s word for the sake of political gain and filthy lucre–my definition for compromise. I know in my heart that these pastors, especially Kirbyjon Caldwell, as my mama used to say, “You know better!”

    I see four types of shepherds/churches/ministries today in the black church/black american life.
    1. John the Baptist(completely separate from the pharisee and saducee Christians) Pastor Fastor and other saints (myself included) fit this category–we’re otrasized and vilified for standing for the Lord Jesus Christ and His Word!
    2. Fearful Peter before conversion(not the Peter after Pentecost). When their but is on the hot seat, Fearful
    Peters will deny the Lord and His Word–from your account, Caldwell denied Christ 3 times. 1. Said he did not know about it on the church website….
    2. When asked–He said it is not a ministry of the church.
    3.He had it deleted from the church ministries website…….
    But great news, fearful Peters can repent and become the Peter of Acts and 1st, 2nd, 3rd Peter. I hope someone that knows Caldwell sends him an email of this report from Pastor Foster.

    These last 2–look good outward, sound good outward, and have money and power but are deadly and treacherous! They are wolves in sheeps clothing!
    3. Judas Iscariot–This spirit is alive and well in the black church–selling out for silver and advantages and taking bribes/gifts from the government and looking for for a political/economic kingdom. I want name any names today….But any ministry that takes their finances from the Kings of Sodom (remember Abraham refused tribute from the King of Sodom) an from anybody denying the Word of God is a Judas Iscariot!
    4. Herod the Great/Herod Antipas–not chosen by God, but chosen by Rome…I’m sorry the political power brokers/power structure/policital action committees and politically correct.

    Pastor Foster, tell me what you’re discerning about Obama–I see the spirit of Judas Iscariot and I see Herod(appointed by men and not by God).

    God Bless!

  6. I just cant understand why with all the power, influence education, etc men like Caldwell have why they are so intimidated by stuff like this.

    Because he’s a pulpit pimp is why. Using the same emotion based and ear tickling tactics used by other pimps to “grow his church” as they say.

    He’s a pimp I’ve had on the radar for a good while, but never posted about.

    He went from the business world into ministry and is still doing things like a businessman. But everyone loves these “empowerment” types. So long as they’ve got a plan for everybody to make money legally, it’s OK. Check contentment at the door!

    So I’m not surprised he’s decided to check standing against abomination at the door also.

    Check all that does not promote “growth” at the door. Ensuring the doctrine inside is as empty as possibly.

    But what else would you expect from the man who wrote the book titled: The Gospel of Good Success: A Road Map to Spiritual, Emotional and Financial Wholeness?

  7. I am disappointed as well by this from Kirbyjon. I live right down the street from his new church. I only visited one time. I could tell how the service went that it was a seeker sensitive type church. He is another pastor among others that have sold out to the political system i.e. john hagee, rick warren and others.

    Too many church folk are getting caught up in the hype of Obama just because he could be the first black president, all the while compromising their christian beliefs.

  8. Power. The ultimate temptation. Didn’t Satan often all the kingdoms of the world to Him if he would just bow down and serve him. Some people really desire to be in or keep the spotlight. If I was a member of his church, I’d be asking a lot of questions or looking for another church.
    What of the people who have been helped by the ministry that he didn’t even know about? I feel sorry for them.

  9. Dear EW,

    I meant to reply to your post earlier and it slipped my mind. Sorry, chalk it up to forgetfulness 🙂

    Thanks very much for your kind words.

    On a personal note, I am serving the Lord with gladness and whether or not the religious powers that wanna be ever accept it/me is not a major issue. We are told to do all as unto the Lord. He sees, He knows and he will reward.

    I can agree with you on many points. I think we are on the precipice of the “great falling away” if not already it it. That means that many people will abandon the faith, but not the church. I hope that makes sense. Check that against II Cor 13:5 and you’ll see what I mean.

    Your personality types among black pastors is very interesting. Interesting. Perhaps someone else would like to add their comments on it.

    Re KC “knowing better.” He definitely does but I still dont see what was so threatning to him that he had to be that extreme.

  10. I’m sorry, I meant; “Didn’t Satan offer HIM (Jesus) all the Kindoms”….. Hope y’all understood.

    BTW As far as being ostracized and villified ala “John the Baptist” type pastors. We ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Wait until you are really a voice in the wilderness where people have to actually search out the real church in some obsure place. You know that “next level” the false prophets are always talking about? Perhaps for the real church’s next level may be relative obcsurity; like Moses on the backside of the desert. Keep Keepn’ On.

  11. Elder Jimmy, I agree with you. It has been witnessed to me from obscure/unknown pastors with true prophetic gifts that the True Church will eventually have to go underground because of the apostasy happening in the visible ecclesia. It will be house to house meetings like Acts. Not men building their own kingdoms. Blogs like Pastor Foster’s are voices crying out in the wilderness! Name one big time mega ministry preaching holiness and repentence!
    They’re preaching blessings(milk) and not meat (holiness and repentence and taking up your cross daily)!

    God’s prosperity is conditional–Deut. 28:1. Now many of you say, that’s OT. Want NT. Matthew 6:33. Well let’s go to James 1:22-25(especially v25, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

    Pastor Foster, I receive what you mentioned about 2 Cor. 13:5. If we don’t do this self-check individually, the enemy and the world will test or sift you–to see if you are for real or are you false.

    I look forward to hearing what others think as well.

  12. I also agree. Real success is measured by one’s obedience to the Word. Joshua 1:8 “This book of the law shall not depart from out of thy mouth. You shall be careful to do all it says..Then shall your way be prosperous and you shall have good success.” I use this old testament reference because so many of the false ministers come from the OT. They don’t often make reference to this verse as a “secret” to godly success. Obedience to GOD’s word. You cannot separate success from it.

  13. Brethren, on an aside, but why on earth would any Bible Believing Christian even support a man like Obama? I mean I understand why Black Americans are proud someone like Obama is running for President but as Christians, we are to be wise and judge righteously …With that being said, How could any Christian…Black or White, support a man like Obama who openly supports the Gay Agenda and not only that, but incredibly partial birth abortion??

    Help this Western Canadian understand? I am aware the alternatives are not exactly outstanding but isn’t it clear to the Brethren down in the States that Obama is off the map…as in a radical liberal/leftist/ etc etc!???

    If Christians can be so decieved by someone like Obama, what is going to happen when the Anti Christ appears who will be far far more devious and dangerous?

    Please keep up the great work here….


  14. Devon, I pondered over your response in prayer. The liberal elite(the real power brokers and $$ influencers) have chosen Barak Obama. What started out as an experiment and with the recent primary victories, now with momentum(key), Barak may be unbeatable. Why? No republican or right-wing candidate(white anglo saxon male) has attacked him–they do not want to be accused of being racist! McCain will not win(He is just as left as Obama/Clinton) The Clintons are coming off as bullies and the establishment (They are still the wrong choice for Christians!)

    Now, the black church and its leadership–many black christians are looking at the opportunity to make history (1st Black President) versus standing on what the word of God says about abominations. Saul was Israel’s 1st king and you know how that turned out! As this website has pointed out, the black church as a whole since the Civil Rights movement has compromised for so many years that you can’t tell the difference between the world and the church.
    Black christians who point out the obvious wrongs with Obama are being accused of being playerhaters and envious. Just google Tavis Smiley & Obama.

    White christendom is saying what you’re saying Devon on blogs/websites but not out in the open. They don’t want to be accused of being racist.

    The liberal elite are appealing to the issues of the flesh–healthcare, abortion, racial/gender equality, gay rights, and the war in Iraq, change…. All of these issues are result of our nations sins and abominations and outright rejection of God’s word. And now they have the perfect “man” to get even more of their filth approved. People do not want to accept what I’m about to say, the powers of darkness are winning in the USA! Lord Jesus save us and come quickly!

    Now, the remant of God–white, black, Jew/Gentile see the real deal about Obama. The problem with the remnant is that we are scattered and as a whole are unorganized. We just need 120 believers to go to an upper room, get on ONE accord and not come out until the power of God comes down(LOL) and turn the Church around and this nation before its too late.

    This is my humble take concerning the election and the events of our time.

  15. Thank you Enoch for that heartfelt reply…..

    I guess as a Christian up here in Canada, I had assumed the Black Church was strong and discerning…

    From what I am learning in the last few years….this perhaps is not the case at all….in that regard, it joins the white church…

    My Lord…the North American church…heartbreaking…

    Surely though..with the poverty of the 3 candidates, at least McCain stands against Abortion and I think Gay Marriage?

    Obama and Hillary are so radical left….and McCain is basically a Centrist…at best……

    I can understand the Christians not voting at all…but if they are going to vote…at least take the least of the 3 evils…

    I am deeply concerned that discernment is appalling amongst Christians in America….

    And surely McCain will start exposing Obama’s radical liberal agenda…surely he won’t be scared of doing that…

    I do think one thing in our corner is that their is lotsa time to expose Obama and his one world aspirations and cozying upto islamic dictators???

    Surely Christians at the very least can see the danger of this man…

    Just based on Obama’s approval from the Gay community and Pro Abortion crowd, I would think Black Christians would be fleeing from this man???

    This is so confusing….

    Take care

  16. This pastor should be ashamed of himself he would prefer to cower to the gay lobby than to uphold biblical truth and defend ex gays. He is nothing more than an opportunist and fraud. It was Christ who said “If you deny me before man, I will deny you before my Father in Heaven!

  17. This here is very upsetting. This ecunimeical approach to christianity is DANGEROUS and must be REPROVED. He is misleading a lot of people, if he can’t stand for GOD on this issue–he’s surely not standing up for HIM on the other sound doctrines of the bible. I strongly believe this form of ecunemism, along with ithe infiltration of idolatrous black greek organizations, ungodly gospel artist/pastors, and masons/OES (among other things) is destroying many church across the country (black and white). It is almost as if you have go on a scavager hunt just to find a holy/wholesome church nowadays. The end times are surely near. GOD BLESS and keep up the good work.

    check out

  18. EF, Im in 100% agreement. The temptation is very strong to incorporate all this ungodliness and call it “God is doing a new thang”. Many are selling out to it and justifying it (some with scripture). KJC is just another example of some church leaders who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. We are told to “turn away from them”.

    My strong advice to anyone concerned is to find a church —even if you have to scavenge— that refuses to compromise to gain status and money. It doesnt matter about the size. There are large churches holding true and there are small ones holding true. There are also large ones gone astray as well as small ones. Our main concern should be that God’s Word must never be compromised. Never.

  19. I have been a member of the church for eight years and I have never heard of this program. We usually have a spotlight on a different ministry every month and I have never heard of this. I honestly have never heard him mention homosexuality in a sermon. Though this is unusual for pastor it is the truth.

    GMCW: Jill, granted KjC was not aware of the ministry in a church as large as his (thats another problem…too large churches) but why did he so quickly dissasociate himself from the ministry? Is it a bad ministry? Does he think that homosexuals cant change or dont need to be saved? No disrespect to your pastor, but he sounded like a man scared for his position/image more than a man of God standing for God’s Word.

  20. It still saddens me when people lump homosexuality with sexual addiction, prostitution, alcoholism, and cocaine addiction. I am a gay man who comes from a conservative christian family, my Dad is a pastor, and not from a liberal church by any means. He believed homosexuality was a sin, until he had to deal with it on a personal level when I told him that I was gay. It is my life, my spirit, and the way I continued to live a moral life that was the light in his life which caused him to realize that his previous belief was wrong. My family loves me and treats me no different than any other child in the family. I feel totally accepted for who I am, and I believe this is the reason why I have never dealt with issues of sexual promiscuity, drugs, or any other spirit breaking vice that this world has to offer as a way to deal with shame, invalidation, and feelings of self worthlessness. It may seem a farce to some of you, but the truth that I know and have seen working in my life is that truly loving another person, no matter what their gender, is a beautiful gift from god, a blessing. A ministry for homosexuals would be a welcome one in my book. I believe there are a lot of gay men and women who have grown up hating the people they are, feeling ashamed of their most basic feelings of self, many even cast away from their families and friends for feelings that strike to the core of who they know they are. Any ministry which would try to change their sexuality is focused on the completely wrong issue. It would be the same as telling a person with brown eyes that they need to have blue eyes. The real ministry should be accepting gays and lesbians for who they are. They are sons and daughters, sisters and brothers, they are children of God. We all have faults, but it is about time we come to realize that lying, cheating, stealing, abusing, killing are choices that we have power and control over. Sexuality, is a God given trait. Just wanted to add my perspective. God Bless.

  21. On May 10th 2008, Kirbyjohn Caldwell presided over the wedding of Bush’s daughter, Jenna.

  22. Homosexuality is a sin, period…..

    And for those who are struggling with the demon of this sickness, you should be crying out to Jesus for deliverance instead of trying to justify this immoral behavior……

    And if anyone removed this valuable service off a church website, I suggest it was done for political expediency.

  23. Michael, perhaps you could elaborate on why your dad changed his mind. I assume you and he would agree that having a loved one involved in a particular sin is no reason to say it isn’t a sin. The Bible hasn’t changed.

  24. First and foremost, it is easy to arrive to a false conclusion who this man is and what he stands for. It is our duty as believers to be careful of the messenger. Unless you heard with your own ears this message in Pastors voice, saw his lips moving in concert with this message, I suggest you view it as a rumor and touch not thy anointed. Asses him from your personal unbiased observations and encounters. The media is constantly manipulated to start rumors ultimately to tear down. I would take the risk to say most people would say any negativity they have heard about this man is not something they have proof of or personally witness. Wake up people and stop letting the media form your opinions, shape your thinking, tell you about someone in a manner that is inconsistent with your experience with them. The members of Windsor know who he is, how he is and where he is and stand in this matter regardless to what the media reports. Be blessed and lets continue to pray for our AWESOME leaders as they continue focus ahead

  25. LM, there is no “false conclusion” about who Caldwell is. He said what he said and did what he did and the evidence is posted. Stop blaming bad behavior and poor pastoral execution on “the media”. There is no media conspiracy when it is clear what the man did.

    But LM just in case we all got it wrong and since “the members of Windsor know…”, please answer the following:

    1. Did or did not Kirbyjon Caldwell, your pastor remove or have removed the overcoming ministry to gays and lesbians from the church website?

    2. Is homosexuality a sin to Kirbyjon Caldwell or not. Have you ever at any time heard –from his lips at church— heard him say “homosexuality is a sin”?

    3. Does Kirbyjon Caldwell believe that a person can be delivered from homosexual sin by the power of Jesus Christ? And have you ever heard him articulate that in a public worship service?

    4. Are you saying that the article is a complete fabrication? That your pastor never said the words attributed to him in the article? If they are false what actions has he taken against

    So there you have it, LM please set the record and all of us straight on your pastor.

  26. I am a Black gay Christian minister who has been involved with ex-gay ministry for many years. What I have discovered (under the guise of holiness) is a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the scriptures. Sure, at face value, you can read the scripture and see it says homosexuality is wrong. However, reading scripture and studying scripture with proper exegesis and hermeneutics (sorry, preacher talk) are two different things. It is the responsibility of ministers to dig into the word for truth. That is what seminary is for. Although I have not attended seminary, I have studied on that level. Here are a few things: First and foremost, evangelical Christians must be deathly afraid of gay people because we/they go out of their way to be nasty, under the guise of holiness. Let’s agree momentarily that homosexuality is a sin. Jesus would never have acted the way most Christians act towards gays. It makes you wonder how we/they claim to be Christ like. Not even close. Jesus was always at some tax collectors house or hanging out with prostitutes. Do you think those prostitutes stopped selling themselves immediately after meeting Jesus? I doubt it. He was threatened and neither should you. Second, the Greek words in I Cor 6:9 (Arsenokoites and Malakos) have been translated and mistranslated so much over the years. (You do realize that the Bible was not written in English!) Words have been translated partly through the lens of the translator. So the “gays” in that verse have been called homosexual offenders, homosexual prostitutes, effeminate, sodomites, abusers of themselves with mankind, sexual perverts… These two words cannot have that many meanings. How about looking at the context in which Paul wrote I Corinthians. It is a letter answering a previous letter based on questions the Corinthian Christians had about their church in their community. Their community was full of idolatry (subject of most of Pauls writings). It was practiced through temple prostitution and pederasty (act of adult men sleeping with teenaged boys). Thirdly, these two words do not appear anywhere else in scripture to describe homosexuality. One word references fine clothing. The other just refers to itself. So how do we really know what they mean? If you are a scholar, you would look in other early Christian writings and historical documents, where you would find these words were not used in a context of homosexuality in any other literature. I haven’t even touched on the true story of Sodom and Gomorrah. And the parallel story of God’s Chosen People who committed the “same crime”. The things preachers don’t teach.

    Be a Berean. Seek the word for truth.
    Be a Christian. Live out love the way Jesus did, not how we do.

    Love you all.

    GCMW: Keiko, I have nothing personal against you and I am sure you are a good person.
    But you are in grave error. You have read into the scripture your own bias which understandably allows you to continue in your sin without conviction. But it is not so. Your study (as your comments prove) is not of the scripture but of history. The eternal word of God is much greater than history. History does not interpret the Word, but rather we should allow the Word to give us our proper perspective on history.
    I am very interested to know how you understand Jesus’ words where he says “the gospel is preached to the poor” (Luke 4:18). In light of that, if the ONLY way to fully understand what the Word says and means is to study historical documents, dead sea scrolls, take trips to the holy land and attend a “progressive” theological seminary, how are the poor to fare? How does the common man get truth, Keiko? How do they with such a dificient life have access to the truth of scripture? It seems your suggestions are not “berean” at all but rather religious elitism which was prevalent in dark age Catholocism.

  27. A few points that I hope all my Christian brothers ans sisters receive:
    1. DON’T MIX POLITICS WITH RELIGION. Politics is the world’s attempt at social order. Religion is man’s attempt at spiritual order – and it is anything, like politics, but orderly. A united spiritual order (Christian unity) is the greatest positive influence on the social order.
    2. Condemn the sin but not the sinner.
    3. NEVER think that you have the right to judge one’s faith. Yes, by their fruit ye shall know them but then that knowledge should lead you to PRAY FOR not ATTACK the person.
    4. This is NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. This is a nation created to uphold freedom for all religions (or lack of).
    5. This should be A NATION INFLUENCED BY CHRISTIANS – we should go tell it on the mountain, but dust our feet off and keep moving if the mountain village rejects it. We should be the GREATEST WARRIORS FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE (see the minor prophet books of the Bible).

    God bless you all.

    GCMW: Removed your links.
    MG, if you cant see how overtly hypocritical and contradicting your comment is, then I can only have sympathy for you.

  28. Rev. Caldwell,

    Remember the days of Noah and the flood?
    Remember what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah?
    Be careful lest you lead someone astray.
    Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
    Remember Jesus said, “Either you are for ME or against ME”.

    Please follow and teach the TRUE message of JESUS.

    Dave Aanerud

  29. GCMW: In all sincerity, and Godly love, and before respond in anger, please help me understand where I was hypocritical and contradicting. You MAY have misinterpreted my point…or you have be reproving me justly, but I need to know if so.

    I do not think my comments were overly negative and attacking – simply my opinions and thoughts. Yet your response is cynical and condescending. I sincerely hope that we can have a civil debate on our differing views. I applaud you for taking a stance on something you believe and your site is well structured and laid out (save the fact that your censored me by removing my link – having my link only HELPS more viewers to come to your site).

    GCMW: MG, there is no anger involved whatsoever. For you to state that no one should “mix politics and religion” and then your blog to do exactly that is extremely contradictory. It seems like it was set up specifically to do that.

  30. I was very offended by this article’s reference to pastors who are black. As a Christian who is a black American I can say that I do not believe that homosexuality should be condoned by Chrisitans, and I do not know any black pastors who believe that either (and I know a lot of them)! The author should be ashamed of the blatant racial prejudice which this article displays, especially if he/she considers himself/herself to be a Christian. I would never accuse white pastors of being secretly gay just because Ted Haggard was, and the author of this article shouldn’t assume that black pastors support homosexuality because this one does.

  31. Where in the article is the “accusation” that black pastors are secretly gay”? No one –black or white— was accused of being secretly gay. You may have read something wrong or missed the intent of the article.

    Shana, are any of the black pastors you know supporting Obama? If they are then they are also by extension supporting Obama’s beliefs. And Obama is 199% for homosexuality.

    You cant have it both ways. You dont believe that homosexuality should be condoned by Christians, but what about black pastor who are excusing that (and there are a lot of them) to get Barack Obama into office? Are you supporting them? Writing to them to voice your complaint?

    Its time to choose, Shana. God’s word or our own carnal desires.

  32. GCMW: My site is about doing the opposite of what you accuse it of – separating politics and religion. My point is that each of us carries out our faith differently. My concerns are that one cannot criticize Obama’s faith – his faith is his faith. And secondly, I worry that Evangelicals feel that governmental force should be used to establish their brand of moral order.

    Whether you believe him or not, Obama does not view a same-sex union as sacred or abortion as a good choice (nor do I); he just views government as a protector of all liberties and choices (as do I).

    I think your site is a good example of how as citizens we can influence moral order – it’s a bottom up process. It is you and the preaching of the gospel and showing of neighborly love and concern that will establish moral order, not the evengelical leadership suceeding in putting in judges that will an abortion and gay marriages.

  33. I know Kirbyjon Caldwell personally, and he is a great man. I see nothing wrong with his actions here, although I do think that it would have been wise for him to not be so public in his endorsement of Obama because there’s always someone looking to criticize people in the public eye. I’m not going to address the comments about him being a coward or the state of churches (mostly because I doubt I’ll be visiting the site again to continue the debate, and also because I’m not knowledgeable enough about the church), but I would like to point out the fact that a quote has been used out of context and twisted to fit the argument of the article, and also the complete lack of response to what I feel is an important quote.


    “When Politico asked Caldwell if he supported gay marriage or civil unions, the highly successful pastor replied: ‘I would need to check with the church.'”

    I read that article, and you have purposefully left out the context of that comment. Kirbyjon stated that he “is a ‘believer in everybody having access to all rights and privileges'”, and that he would have to check with the church to see if that means he supports gay marriage of civil unions. You, however, have attempted to make him look like an idiot and question-dodger with your wording, and that is wrong no matter your bias and motivations.

    Secondly, you quoted his comment about not being able to know about everything on his church’s site… and then completely ignored it in your biting reply. You agreed that he should not know about all the ministries in his church, and then went on to rag him about “not thinking on his own”. The question for you, then, is how much of what most Christians think and believe is really their own ideas, and then how much of what Christians do and say is simply a repeat of common ideas. So how in God’s name is what he said a BAD thing? Most likely you’re thinking that he considers gay marriage a societal problem and what I’ve said above is then moot, but I won’t address that point of view because assumptions are bad bad. I would think that most gays would agree.

    Anyway, my two cents. I know that I shouldn’t expect completely unbiased reporting on this kind of site – and also that I myself am biased – but arguments are better when they address all the facts rather than just those that suit their ideas.

  34. While I am saddened now to hear the news, I do support Pastor Caldwell. He is a good man but people don’t understand that Obama is a good man as well. Trinity UCC is a great church that he was a part of which helped him shape his Christian beliefs. Pastor didn’t give in to the gay activists.

  35. jysuper how can you be a good man –or a great church— when you deny people access to a needed ministry and refuse to even give biblical support to it and (2) consistently vote for the murder of unborn children? (3) advocate for homosexuality as a “natural orientation” (4) preach that all white people are evil (5) ordain open homosexuals into Christian ministry?

    I dont understand your statement. Are these the actions of “good men” and by whose standards?

  36. The problem with the entire premise is that it is based on “man’s” definition of good. However, according to God’s Word mankind is inherently evil and NONE is good. Also, to claim the idea that civil rights for African Americans is equal to that of Homosexuals is a form of racism. Whenever you equivocate, you are claiming equality in status. Thus from my perspective and what the Bible says about Homosexuality YOU are implying that African Americans are deviant, abhorrent, and abominable. Think about what I just said before you answer. The Bible is clear as to what Homosexuality is seen as in the eyes of God. Once you claim that African American civil rights equal to Homosexual civil rights you by proxy are putting African Americans in the category as Homosexuals. This is a degrading form of self hatred whether you are cognizant of it or not. If anything the beliefs of these men is actually reinstitution of slavery. However, not the slavery of 400 years of oppression but rather the false enslavement of the Homosexual who will never know the truth because of your approval of this behavior. Like the slave who was not allowed to read lest he could gain understanding and be free, you too do not allow the Homosexual to be liberated by the “true” gospel. In essence you are slave holders holding the homosexual in bondage of the truth.


  37. While I agree with most of your statements, it white people are evil statement is out of line. At the time of Jeremiah Wright’s pastorate at Trinity UCC, black people were an oppressed people. The media has lied about him on this. Trinity doesn’ t hate white people. They are affirming who they are as black people in terms of culture,character,and history. I know that Donald Young was their choir director for 20 years. We don’t know whether he was an active homosexual but he had a good heart for God and for his people. I do admire the UCC but as they state you don’t have to agree or believe on all of their beliefs. Don’t get me wrong I’m Baptist and don’t support active homosexuality but an compassionate towards those who are bound. I don’t support abortion and homosexual rights but I would rather be in a church like Trinity UCC which does not to my knowledge perform gay marriages than a black church which condemns homosexuality openly but lets them serve quietly which is non love at all. Just where I’m at now.

  38. No Kyle, I’m afraid YOU are implying that gay people are deviant, abohorrent, and abominable, and attributing that to the Bible without any serious study, though perhaps with the assistance of a handy-dandy KJV. In doing so, you are helping to incite the most violent of hate crimes criminals (yes, the most violent hate crimes by far – the most murders and the most serious assaults – according to official statistics are motivated by antihomosexual hatred).

    Equality under the law has no theological implications. None. When I assert that divorced people should have equality under the law, I am not making any kind of statement approving divorce. You can be for a group having equality under the law without approving of the behavior that defines that group. After all, most of you conservatives think all Jews are going to hell unless they abandon Judaism and become Christian, but we have finally come to the point where you’re willing to support them having equal rights under the law. It is no different with gays.

  39. No Alan, dont get it twisted. Homosexuality is deviant, abominable and abhorrent. As a matter of theological fact all sin is. Its hypocritical gay moralists like you who attempt to paint your sin as far superior than anyone else’s.

    As we have asked before where is your irrefutable evidence that preaching against homosexuality as sin has caused someone to go out and kill or commit an act of violence against a gay person?

    Please cite the specific information so all can see it. We are getting a bit bored with these unfounded accusations.

  40. Wow Alan, you sure did make a lot of assumptions now didn’t you. First, you have all the equal rights as anyone else. But as for marriage that is between a man and a woman. I’m not a gay basher nor would I inflict harm upon anyone including you. Second, I don’t need the KJV bible to prove Homosexuality is wrong. Give me an NIV for all I care. Third, you are correct regarding my take on Judaism. However, the same goes for Muslims, fake Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Atheists, Agnostics, Tribal Religions, and anyone else not saved by the Blood of the Lamb which is Jesus Christ and Christ alone.


  41. People are equal in worth and dignity, but sexual choices and lifestyles are not.  That is why the law’s refusal to license polygamous, polyamorous , and homosexual unions is entirely right and proper.  In recognizing, favoring, and promoting true marriage, the law does not violate the “rights” of people whose “lifestyle preferences” are denied the stamp of legal approval.

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