Open Forum IX: To post or not to post

That is the question. Ive been tagged for jury duty this week so I may or may not be posting. But that shouldn’t stop you from speaking your mind.

Feel free to use this post as an open forum to discuss whatever you’d like to. General commenting rules apply and I will be monitoring for compliance. Thank you and I pray that you are blessed and secure in the grace of God.

I will leave for your consideration a message by Pastor Terrence Johnson of Houston entitled The answer to fake church people. Remember him?

Part 2:

Don’t miss his defense of Juanita Bynum and Paula White at about 5:00 in part 2.

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42 thoughts on “Open Forum IX: To post or not to post

  1. I have a question. Do you think that a person is delivered from Same sex attractions (SSA) and are automatically heterosexual? What is freedom from SSA? Does it mean celibacy or heterosexuality? HOw does/has the struggle played out for folk?

  2. Johnson don’t realized that he IS defending these fakes like Juanita Bynum and Paula White! They are pulpit-pimping, adulterous, false prophets, Jezebels that sending so many people stright to hell. I am shocked but no supprise at all. Misusing Matthew ch 7. If I was at this (harlot)Chruch I want to aske him what about the scriptiures of Ephiesans 5:11-12, 1 Timothy 5:19-21, 1 Timothy 2:9-15, 2 Timothy 4:2, 2 Peter 2:1-3, Matthew 7:13-23, Revelation 2:20-23, etc. thats fits Bynum and White and why he is not brother to deal with it?

  3. Oh yea, I wonder that is this guy are suppressing the poor? He did tell that he but his buy his wife wife Versace Purse that most of us cannot buy and he is bragging about it! What about helping the poor? Is He Malachi ch.3 that discribe them of how are they are doing to the windows & the poor? I know that Juanita Bynum, and Paula White, can fit Malachi ch.3 that describes them of how are they are doing to the windows & the poor. This guy I belive that is the fake one here. A Wolf-In-Sheep’s-Clothing.

  4. To GCMWatch,
    I’m sorry that you been tagged for jury duty this week. I hope you come back soon. Have a nice day 🙂 .

  5. Thanks Meg, the first day was torture! But this is my second time in two years so I knew what to expect.

    Elder Jimmy, I would answer your question as no. I say that because this is a question about sin with homosexuality being just one manifestation of man’s depravity. Freedom any sinful bondage isnt defined biblically as the absence or complete eradication of such sin (ref Romans 7), but rather power over it (ref Lk 10:19). To wit, sin no longer controls or dominates our behavior or thoughts. Rather the spirit of God becomes our guide.

    Can we be perfectly sinless? No. 1 John1:8 Can we have perfect power over sin? Yes. Romans 6:12-13 How that is lived out on a daily basis is where I believe the conversation has not grown to. That has a lot to do with discipleship.

    Celibacy or heterosexuality should be taken out of the equation of what deliverance means for homosexuals who choose to follow Christ. What I mean is that we are not delivered from sin to be “heterosexuals” and we are not delivered to be celibate as neither is a goal. Neither heterosexuality or celibacy is a true indicator of true salvation. One can be celibate and still in sin, one can be heterosexual and still living in sin. The goal of deliverance is to grow in grace, maturity and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Pet 3:18). Making either of these a goal is to create a special definition for those who come out of this sin. If sin is sin, then deliverance is deliverance for all. Both should mean the same for all Christians.

    I hope that at least gets this moving.

    Interested in hearing other’s comments on your questions. Thanks.

  6. To elder Jimmy, i think it would mean both heterosexuality AND celibacy. There is no separation. Celibacy is expected of all who are not married. And because God designed us to be attracted to the opposite sex, then He would bring about the restoration of that attraction. Of course, if one decides to get married (to a woman of course), then celibacy is no longer required (unless this has been discussed between the deliveree and his wife and they have agreed to such a thing). But yes, while one is no longer homosexual (making him automatically the opposite since you only have two choices, really), he is till required to live pure, holy, and perfect, as our father in heaven is perfect. So it goes far beyond his sexual preference. Because God is the God of our entire lives, it goes from their sexual preference, to the music they listen to, whether or not they are studying their bible, whether or not they are fornicating, basically everything that is already expected of a heterosexual in a Holy lifestyle. Gay or straight, we are to live for God with everything, not just by abstaining.

  7. I don’t think that its the eradication of the good that a person has done after they have made a mistake its the continuation of that/those mistakes and an unrepentance of them and the glossing over them as if you have not done anything wrong.

  8. As I listen to him, he sounds like the southern version of Jamal Bryant (the use of big words to sound thelogically sound). Yeah, this brother is like the Jakes of this world. He does a lot of personal opinion giving vs teaching scripture, since there’s some truth to his opinion, people fail to see/hear the lack of sound doctrine.

    Amazing, a lot of words, but very little SOUND doctrine. WOW, but that doesn’t stop the people from standing up, saying amen, etc.

    INCREDIBLE!

  9. Yeah Shantay, being from Texas he definitely has that drawl. But Im a little shocked that he would only offer that since he’s seen PW and JB “praise the Lord” then they arent fake people. So all you have to do is praise the Lord and youre not a false teacher?

  10. I say this with love-I am not sure about this brother. He looks on the funny side and appears very passionate about defending falls and mistakes. Yes I agree that we all make mistakes, but identifying Judas Iscariot as a fake and not false heretics like those he seemed to be defending is awkward. I pray and hope that he is not preparing the hearts of his congregation fall a confession that may lead many astray.

  11. Terrence Johnson is a pretender. He offers no solid scripture
    back up for his nonsense. Just a lot of puffery and gibberish and which regrettably, a lot of people fall for since they do not
    examine what is said with the Word of God.
    When you examine the teaching and preaching of a P.White or a J.
    Bynum against the Word of God…both of those Jezebels fail and
    fall.
    But, for some people, all you have to do is utter some phrase with Jesus in it or yell Praise the Lord real loud and say a
    Thank You Jesus! and you are in….no further questions.
    That is how shallow Christian discernment has fallen. We are
    ensnared by such outward trappings that we miss the wolf coming in with the sheep.
    No one wants to be corrected as to wrong dogma or doctrine, so we cover it up with a lot of hoopla and verbal jujitsu hoping that
    we will throw off the bible bloodhounds…and many times, it works
    since no one wants to be seen as being critical of another even when that person is spewing pure flim flam.
    People of God…contend (struggle) for the faith! (Jude).

  12. I don’t know much about Pastor Terrence Johnson, but what I do know is there is not enough evidence in this clip to come to the conclusion that he is a pretender. His basic premise in the clip is accurate. There is an assumption by many within the body of Christ that when prominent ministers fall into sin, that it automatically means that they were never sincere in their service to the Lord. The bible says that God will judge the secrets of mens heart through Jesus Christ. I try to be very careful when it comes to commenting on things only known by God. How many of us pray for the souls of those we consider to be charlatans.(James 5:19-20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one do convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way saveth a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins). This is not a defense of anyone, I just want to make sure that we are speaking God’s truth in love, and that our ultimate goal is to see people repent and turn back to the Lord.

  13. Pastor Foster,

    I couldn’t get out all of my thoughts on last night concerning these videos, but based on the “commerical appeal” of his subject, he stated that he will address and give an answer…. blah, blah, blah. In reality, he didn’t do what he promised to do at all, at least in my humble opinion.

    Yeah, it would be hard to condemn JB and PW because he like so many others, use their name and fame to get their money from people. I guess, he can’t cut off the hand that feeds him. Look at it, his ministry is so much like so many of these false teachers that’s why he was able to build up so fast. Notice I said “he” and not GOD. He bought into the whole marketing scheme that is nothing more than a pyramid scheme at best.

    Keep your eyes and ears open, as you will see the cover being blown off of his ministry and his life. The Spirit of the Lord, is NOT pleased at all.

  14. They were frauds though and thats the truth for the main reason that they were telling people how to be married and all that while their marriage was jacked up. How can you be a Pastor of a Church and then just up and tell the congregation that you are getting a divorce? Where does that leave the congregation and why did you get divorced, was it based on any biblical reasoning. When you are a leader you cant just get up and do what you want and have no regard for the flock. How does the Pastor teach the flock when they cannot live according to the word?

    How do preach hard at people while your life is jacked up? How does a minister tell people to stop using bic pens because they are for common people and how you have a $5,000.00 pen that you use to sign special things like your million dollar book deals? how do you take money from a gay affirming church and tell people to not hold up their blessing and hurry up and send a check to TBN? As if God is selling healing’s etc.

    Sin is one thing but we have to look into twisted mindsets.

    Also he is saying not to call people frauds while he is there telling everyone they are frauds!?

  15. You know what, if these ministers didnt talk about carnal things all the time I believe they would be standing today. If we are always talkning about what God has for us and how we are going to blessed with carnal things what do we expect? that preaching doesnt sancity but builds greed and in some the desire for worldly fame and all that rubbish.

    Jesus never told anyone to claim any riches or even pray for them. Christ said dont worry, your Heavenly Father will take care of you. He said that sinners pray and ask for material things all the time. What a contrast to what we are being taught now.

  16. I saw the news earlier, GCM. This is the second WOF practitioner to have died within the last month (first one being Billy Joe Dougherty, a mentor and staunch supporter of Roberts). I can only hope people continue to wake up from the madness of the prosperity gospel and do what’s necessary to get away from them and these half-baked “ministers” such as Terrence Johnson (all image & noise; no substance).

  17. I wondered about Billy Joe Dougherty and what he taught. I’m sorry these gentlemen have passed-but how come the WOF was not operating for them when they needed healing? For the past few years I have questioned everything that I’ve heard from the WOFers. I thank God for setting me free. I’ve had to relearn how to pray without telling God what to do-name it claim it-and sowing a seed to meet a need. I have been unemployed for almost 4 months and applied for a job that I would love to have. Well, I simply have been praying for God’s will to be done-because He knows where to put me. The Lord is good~

  18. I did not agree with the teachings of these men either, but at least have some respect for their families in their loss.

    Lady D, to say something like, “how come the WOF was not operating for them when they needed healing”, is immature and very disrespectful. No matter how inaccurate they were in their teachings were loved by somebody…

  19. I meant to say, No matter how inaccurate they were in their teachings, they were loved by somebody….and that somebody was more than likely family and loved ones, regardless of what they believed or taught. Let’s have a little mercy, compassion and most importantly love towards this..geesh.

  20. People…we can judge the fruit and the testimony and the lifestyles of those who profess Christ. As for their actual standing with God…that is solely up to God.
    However, if the fruit is bad and the testimony is rotten and the
    experiences they profess do not match up with the Word of God…
    there is a good causal connection that what they are professing on the outside matches up what is on the inside and that is either being a reprobate or an apostate with their gifts not being recalled by God.
    If the Word of God does not give witness to their testimony or
    fruit or lifestyle and their prophetic utterances are false…flee such people because if you stay around, I contend that you have a similar spirit or have similar itching ears and you have found a “running buddy” that does not submit to the revealed word of God.
    By ye fruits, ye shall know them. A testimony that does not extol Jesus as Lord and twists scripture to fit his or her own means
    and a testimony that vaults self and shuns the full counsel of God…beware and do an Acts 17:11 on the person and their testimony and become a Galatians fruit inspector.
    God did not leave us without the defenses to know right from wrong and good from evil and the ability to discern (including commmon sense!).
    People who continually protect flim flam artists and false teachers and preachers even when their conduct and teaching is
    in violation of scriputure, they are either carnal or immature and are still on milk and not on meat.
    In these last days, contend for the faith, test everything and hold on to the good and rebuke and reprove and correct when and where needed with all gentleness and patience but do not wink at
    error or give excuses for sin.
    Do not be in awe of people who have a name. God is not so why are you? If you examine many of Oral Roberts testimonies and statements…they do not line up with scripture. So, let’s do not try to cover it up simply because he is dead and has family members who are alive.
    A person can be saved and in heaven but they were incorrect on
    certain doctrines that were not vital to one’s salvation.
    e.g.: what day should we worship on?
    However, if one preaches and teaches doctrine that denies the non-negotiables of the Christian faith and that person refuses to be properly instructed on correct bible exegesis, then I have a problem with that person’s testimony that you are born of the Spirit of God since God’s Spirit will not war against itself and promulgate false doctrine that denies the Lordship of Jesus and that Jesus is God in the flesh.
    One can say Lord..Lord until you are blue in the face but remember, Jesus said to those same persons at the judgement, “depart from me, I never knew you.” God knows his own.
    Unless one has a seared conscience, I believe that the indwelling Holy Spirit will lead and guide you into all truth and if you
    continually reject that truth, you deny the Lordship of Jesus and he will deny you.
    Did Oral Roberts actually see a 900 foot Jesus? I doubt it but
    that would not keep him out of God’s heaven!
    Did Oral Roberts lie about God wanting to kill him if he did not raise 8 million dollars for the City of Faith/Healing center?
    Probably did so in order to get the money. Would that keep him out of God’s heaven? I doubt it. Moses wrongfully struck the rock twice and disobeyed God but yet God took him on home.
    God has mercy but that mercy ends when we deny the non negotiables of the Christian faith. God is not mocked.

  21. Also though everyone is not healed God sure is able to do it and has many times.

    The point is that the gospel has become all about what God can do for us and not what we can do for Him and negates that fact that Children of God will go through hard times but are still victorious regardless.

    Our victory is in the cross!!!

  22. behold, Hitler was loved by people too. Why is it that in death we think people should become instant, unreproachable saints?

  23. Response to Behold: Sorry for the misunderstanding, my intent was not disrespect in anyway-these men are gone and their loved ones are grieving.
    I’m searching for some clear answers while finding my way out of some serious deception. Those that base ministry on teaching confession, and other WOF antics that doesn’t work when needed or at all,continue to teach it.

  24. @gcmwatch

    I said nothing about them being unapproachable or anything of the sort. You are being extreme with the Hitler comparison. The families of the deceased deserve respect. Period. And i know its may be a hard concept for you to grasp because you need love in your heart in order to understand that..but its okay

  25. Reading is fundamental, neither did I, “tanay”, Based on your responses, I struggle to see you as a bit more than a nameless, faceless serial troll. Nevertheless…

    People have a right to speak their mind. Death doesnt change that. No one “disrepected” Oral Roberts family by telling the truth about his false teachings publicly. People did the same while he was alive too. I guess you got bent out of shape about that too. If a person does wickedness and leads others astray from God, why is death all of a sudden the ideal time to “respect” them? What’s respectable about leading people astray? Does God respect them now because they are dead? Answer those questions. I suspect that its not that you are trying to give any so-called respect, just that you are shallow of mind.

    And youre talking about love?…. (snicker).

  26. GCMWATCH author To say that Oral Roberts ministry is defined by false teaching is inaccurate and a caricature of everything he did for the kingdom of God. What I am detecting from those who have nothing good to say about Oral Roberts is a cessationist theological background that disdains the entire charismatic movement. 1 Corithians 3:13-15 tells us that God will try each mans work by fire, not by mans presumption of another mans motives. Oral Roberts has said and done things that I disagree with just as your beloved John Mcarthur,but who are you to denigrate his life and service and portray him as a complete charlatan. I’m so glad that God is God and not those who want to mount his throne and cast imperfect judgement upon the rest of us.

  27. WH, I have no “beloved” John MacArthur. Or anyone for that matter. The only thing I advocate cessation from is: SIN.

    Its fairly immature to think that everyone will have something “good” to say about you when you die. Even I dont have that expectation.

    Take criticism and commendation in stride. Correct me if Im wrong but are you saying that Oral Roberts did/said more good than evil, thus he is ok with God? Are we to remain silent and dumb about the things people say and do while using 1 Cor 3:13-15 as a basis? It says God will judge in the fire and he will, but therein holds no prohibition on us judging the tree by the fruit it bears prior to God’s FINAL judgment.

    I have nothing good to say about the Word of Faith movement. Its heretical at best. I think enough proof of that has been given. Oral Roberts is widely understood to be its spiritual progenitor. Am I wrong on that?

    Lafe said it best: “Do not be in awe of people who have a name. God is not so why are you? If you examine many of Oral Roberts testimonies and statements…they do not line up with scripture. So, let’s do not try to cover it up simply because he is dead and has family members who are alive.”

  28. Paul,that’s stunning. I think that is what we have been trying to say all along here. There is way too much tolerance of sin and outright heresy in the Body. And there is way too much silence and complicity.

    In response, I see God raising up a few nobodies to deliver some strong words of warning.

    As it is, the option to hear and heed remains a choice. And from the looks of things, far too many are choosing to ignore God’s word and his warnings.

    And his mercy.

  29. GCMWATCH author First of all E.W. Kenyon is the one who recaptured the revelational truth of Mark 11:23. Oral Roberts and many others recognized it for what it was the words of Christ. Jesus spoke to the fig tree and it dried up. The disciples marvelled when they saw the withered fig tree. Jesus said whosoever shall speak in faith to the mountains shall have whatsoever he saith. Sounds to me like Christ was the founder of the word of faith movement. Just because some people are guilty of extremism does not mean that an entire movement is heretical. That is when you shift from legitimate reproof to modern day Pharisaism. Speaking God’s word in faith is an accurate biblical teaching, but I know that there are many who do not take the word for what it says in this regard. Jesus was condemned by the religous leaders of his day as being heretical, but he knew the truth,they only thought they knew the truth. A face value hermeneutic of God’s word would keep you from falsely condemning those who refuse to be limited by dead religion and the traditions of men. The word says what it says and im not going to allow those who have been corrupted by greek thinking to define heresy. Heresy is preaching doctrine contrary to scripture, not preaching doctrine that you think is contrary to scripture.

  30. Thanks Paul for sharing the article, the church needs a wake up call. I pray that defenders of these false prophets and liars will wake up and see the widespread damage that these people have caused. I was raised in a cult, and then fell head first into the WOF movement. My marriage was destroyed and I could have lost my child. Yes, it was that serious-I was totally blind. I have seen families, relationships, and businesses destroyed because of people like Oral Roberts and Billy Joe. Intimidation and guilt are used to keep people in line. A person is made to think that they are failing God it one doesn’t pay up and cooperate with the self appointed leadership. Its witchcraft and mind control in operation. It’s a miracle that God has not sent fire from heaven, or opened up the ground to consume these people. (His mercy is amazing)
    A few years ago, God began to open my eyes through His Word and websites like this. I have ministered in jails and prisons for 9 years, where myself and other prison ministers have to constantly unravel twisted scriptures that people believe because of the false pastors, prophets, apostles, teachers and evangelists.
    And too the defenders of these people answer my question: how come WOF confessions did not operate for these 2 gentlemen and countless others when they needed healing?
    The answer requires no less than 3 scriptures that have not been taken out of context. And those brave enough to take this on, remember Pastor Foster and other saints that love God’s Word will be reading your responses~

  31. WH, of course Im not referring to legitimate and properly applied biblical teaching. I would say to you that a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Your logic may not play to your advantage as many so-called Christian groups link themselves to Christ. Look no further than the gay christian movement.

  32. (Lady D) He was 91 at some point our course in this earth realm is complete. Im sorry you were under bad leadership, I have had the same experience, but bad leadership comes in all theological persuasions. For all of your accounts of negative experiences in the movement there are plenty of people who will testify of being under loving and unselfish leadership so that is neither here nor there. James 5:15 says and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up. And there are a plethora of similiar passages of scripture. I don’t profess to know and understand everything ,but I do know that lifes devastations does not have the last say. My bible is full of people who believed in what God said and saw the miraculous. If you dont believe then thats your perogative, but I do believe and because of that I have seen many manisfestations of the power of God. And its all biblically based,and in the right context,because a text taken out of context is nothing but a pretext.

  33. Stunning is the word Pastor. Not sure if you read the comments but Paul Crouch Jr. responded however he did not refute the article with any biblical stance but emotionalism from what I read, which is what drives the WOF movement.

    Ok, lets talk about the WOF movement. Jesus did not start this movement at all, this is heresy. Christ obviously taught about miracles and performed many (I believe that God still performs miracles, healings)but he never once SOLD a miracle, they were not attached to giving money even to His ministry. Christ came to give to the poor not take from the poor.

    What the WOF movement does is make a doctrine out of biblical accounts, thats very dangerous. You know the woman who gave the last cake to Elijah and she never ran out of food. That scripture becomes a doctrine that in order to be blessed by God make sure you give your last to the Church? Funny you never hear about the woman who gave the 2 mites becoming a millionaire. Christ simply was making a point that giving is not about the amount or blessings attached but how He sees giving.

    We see in acts where widows where taken care of by the church (Acts 6:1) but today we want the widow to pay for their miracle and other many blessings. The bible teaches that the church should distribute to the needs of the less fortunate amongst us(Romans 12:13) but the WOF says claim your riches “money is comin to me”. NO THIS IS NOT FROM GOD!!!!

    Another thing is the gospel seems to be minimized under such teaching and what is used to bring people to Christ is what He can offer as far as things but no focus on the sinfulness of man and the need for a Saviour!The Cross come across as being all about what I can get from God now!!!!

    This is what Jesus said:

    Luke 10:19-20 (New King James Version)
    19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather[a] rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

    You see this has been twisted to rejoice in the power Christ gave you.

    Blessings!!

  34. What the WOF movement does is make a doctrine out of biblical accounts Very profound statement! Thank you for articulating this point, Paul N! This is the very premise that WOFs use when mangling scripture to justfiy their “theology.”

  35. For some reason everyone is dancing around the premise that I set forth, and to sound intelligent and accurate you continue to use extremist to prove your point. I have already defined the word of faith movement based on its history ,and not some modern day televangelist who is obviously teaching an unbalanced and in some cases an inaccurate message. Mark 11:23 in its proper context is a revelational truth that cannot be contradicted. Whenever the text is taken out of context their must be reproof. It seems to me that many in this discussion are infactuated with labeling people heretics. The Roman Catholic church could have really used you during the inquisistion, or better yet the people of Salem during the witch hunt. I have studied church history and understand all the revelation that was withheld from the Church during the dark ages of christianity, but their are those who dont understand the true significance of each restorational movement beginning with Martin Luthers 95 thesis at Wittenberg. Call me a heretic if you will, but my Lord and saviour was called worse. I speak God’s word in faith,not for cadialacs or mansions ,nor millionaire status,but that his will be done in my life and in the earth. That whether by life or death Christ Jesus might be magnified in my body. If that makes me a heretic sign me up immediately.

  36. Wisdom Hunter, dont be defensive. First thing I dont see your stance as heretical but are you saying that this teaching isnt heretical?

    What you are doing is redifining the premise of the WOF movement, why are you doing that? its not based on sound biblical teaching so trying to redifine it is madness to me.

    WOF faith people believe that we should all be rich, healthy and have no troubles and if we are not living this “abundant” life its because we are not claiming and speaking it into being.

    Where in the bible did Jesus promise that life will be perfect if we speak it into being?

    So no one is negating Christ talking to diseases, storms and the fig trees.

    Honestly, I am not getting your angle or defence at all.

    In conclusion, the WOF movement as we know it is not sound scripturally, if you want to say they have it wrong, then ok but it would not be defined the way it is.

    Blessings!

  37. A little off topic:

    I just read where Highlands Church (evangelical)just opened its doors to gays. It is gay affirming stating that gay believers can have a relationship with Christ and that their sexual orientation is god-given.
    Thank you for this site Pastor Foster. Reading this site, I know that this is blasphemy.
    About Romans 1:28 and its statement of reprobate mind: I am read about HIV dementia and I am really starting to see it (workplace, etc.). A LOT.

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