The heathen mouthpeices rage…again

So, the minions under the influence of the antichrist spirit are fed up. In Psalms 2, King David noted with awe the fomented hate speech of the heathen directed at Christ, the Lord.  What’s behind the irrational nihilism of the heathen?  Primarily,  they hate God and his unchanging law. Its the BIG barricade their wicked intentions cannot overcome with force. So what they do is fly into a rage. One of the minions, [Bishop] John Shelby Spong [previous coverage here] probably didn’t get prior approval from his boss for this, but too late, its out now.

Exhibit #1

Spong calls his rage against the Creator “A Manifesto! The Time Has Come!” and spewed it October 15, 2009.

“I have made a decision. I will no longer debate the issue of homosexuality in the church with anyone. I will no longer engage the biblical ignorance that emanates from so many right-wing Christians about how the Bible condemns homosexuality, as if that point of view still has any credibility. I will no longer discuss with them or listen to them tell me how homosexuality is “an abomination to God,” about how homosexuality is a “chosen lifestyle,” or about how through prayer and “spiritual counseling” homosexual persons can be “cured.” Those arguments are no longer worthy of my time or energy. I will no longer dignify by listening to the thoughts of those who advocate “reparative therapy,” as if homosexual persons are somehow broken and need to be repaired. I will no longer talk to those who believe that the unity of the church can or should be achieved by rejecting the presence of, or at least at the expense of, gay and lesbian people. I will no longer take the time to refute the unlearned and undocumentable claims of certain world religious leaders who call homosexuality “deviant.” I will no longer listen to that pious sentimentality that certain Christian leaders continue to employ, which suggests some version of that strange and overtly dishonest phrase that “we love the sinner but hate the sin.” That statement is, I have concluded, nothing more than a self-serving lie designed to cover the fact that these people hate homosexual persons and fear homosexuality itself, but somehow know that hatred is incompatible with the Christ they claim to profess, so they adopt this face-saving and absolutely false statement. I will no longer temper my understanding of truth in order to pretend that I have even a tiny smidgen of respect for the appalling negativity that continues to emanate from religious circles where the church has for centuries conveniently perfumed its ongoing prejudices against blacks, Jews, women and homosexual persons with what it assumes is “high-sounding, pious rhetoric.” The day for that mentality has quite simply come to an end for me. I will personally neither tolerate it nor listen to it any longer. The world has moved on, leaving these elements of the Christian Church that cannot adjust to new knowledge or a new consciousness lost in a sea of their own irrelevance.

This is my manifesto and my creed. I proclaim it today. I invite others to join me in this public declaration. I believe that such a public outpouring will help cleanse both the church and this nation of its own distorting past. It will restore integrity and honor to both church and state. It will signal that a new day has dawned and we are ready not just to embrace it, but also to rejoice in it and to celebrate it.” [source]

There’s much more unhinged frothing at the mouth, but its too torturous to read. Spong isn’t necessarily lying.   The breakdown of humanity and its descent into unbridled wickedness is something few of us may be able to imagine right now. In fact, Christ forewarned us the times before us would rival the wickedness of pre-flood earth and Sodom.  For those who trust in Christ, don’t be fooled by warm platitudes of “making the world a better place”. It wont happen.  The love of many will wax cold (Mt 24:12), perilous times will come (2 Tim 3:1) and the earth itself (despite the efforts of the rabid environmentalists and climate change prophets) will melt with a fervent heat (2 Pet 3:12).


20 thoughts on “The heathen mouthpeices rage…again

  1. If he would just take off the collar and stop parading as a Bishop and a Christian I’d just write him off as another uninformed non-believer. As it is, he is a hypocrite and a fake. And not much of a clear thinker, either. Gee, a public declaration not to debate the issue you brought up. How brave. Just claim victory, demonize your opponents with the silly homophobe label and move on. Pathetic.

    Spong is what happens when denominations don’t exercise church discipline. He should have been booted out years ago, or perhaps never ordained.

  2. Thought Spong was retired? In any event, the “I refuse to debate this any more” is the time-honored tactic of people who do not have facts on their side and have to resort to hyperbole. Look, had the Bible texts which forbid homosexuality had only been so starting in the 1800s, 1400s or even 800s, then these people might have a point. As it was, these scriptures have ALWAYS been understood and interpreted as forbidding homosexuality. Further, the Roman Empire was fully accepting and embracing of homosexuality. It was commonly practiced by all levels of society. Why? Because the Roman Empire was PAGAN. That is PRECISELY the reason why neo-paganism is so popular in the west today, because paganism exalts homosexuality where Christianity rejects it. These lesbian-feminist “goddess” cults? They are just modern reinventions of what used to go on in the temples to Diana, Aphrodite, etc. in the Roman Empire, where a bunch of women (plus a few men) would go get drunk and high and then defile and abuse each other. That was the reference to “the desire of women” in Daniel’s passages thought to refer to the anti-Christ was about, these lesbian pagan cults, and yes men had their own thing going on as well.

    So if these scriptures were interpreted by EVERYONE in the early church as opposing homosexuality in a culture that fully embraced and exalted homosexuality – meaning that there was no “homophobic” cultural biases at work in the larger culture that shaped the scriptures’ writing and interpretations – then what basis is there for saying that we are wrong for interpreting them the same way? It is similar to how these people INSIST that the authors of the gospels AND the early church didn’t take the virgin birth, the deity and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the miracles literally. Like all these people would have been tortured and killed over a bunch of allegories that teach ethics. And the idea that Jesus Christ was a political revolutionary … as if all these people would have followed a FAILED REVOLUTIONARY who was captured, humiliated and killed by the Romans before He ever did a thing! The people who claim that Jesus Christ was a political revolutionary or reformer cannot point to a single military, political or even religious success or reform that Jesus Christ was responsible for either among the Jews or in the larger Roman society. So, all of these people are not only following a failure, but an obscure one, not even a significant one like Simeon bar Kochba?

    Again, this is why people like Spong declare the debate to to be over. They don’t have the facts on their side, and they are frustrated by our refusal to just accept their version of events because they say so. Spong is just a politician, plain and simple and he has his theology only because of his political views. So, when he acts like this, he is upset that we reject his politics. The thing is that Spong has convinced himself the same about us. He has convinced himself that we REALLY don’t believe that the Bible is true, but instead that we only claim to because of our desire to use the Bible to advance a particular political system. Again, Spong and people like him forget that while this view works pretty well in the mostly Chrisian west, it is thoroughly outlandish to believe that tiny extremely persecuted and marginalized Christian minority populations would do so. Why on earth would someone staring down a gun, machete, or a flaming container of gasoline profess Jesus Christ if his only goal is to oppress women and homosexuals, especially in Muslim countries that treat women and homosexuals worse than Christian ones do?

    It is like the common liberal claim that Paul corrupted the original (political!) and radical teachings of Jesus Christ because he wanted to curry favor with the privileged power elites. Sure, ignore the fact that as an educated Roman citizen AND a member of the Sanhedrin, Paul would have had far more power and privilege by remaining a Jew – which unlike Christianity was a legal, protected religion – or by renouncing his Judaism. During the first 300 years of Christianity, pick out a single person who improved his status by becoming a Christian. However, PLENTY of Jews improved their status renouncing their faith and culture and becoming Hellenists, with examples being the Sadducees (who were Jews in name only and truthfully Roman collaborators) and Josephus, who was rewarded by the Romans for being a traitor by living out the rest of his years in a life of luxury.

    Again, Spong doesn’t want to deal with historical facts like those, so they simply declare the debate to be over. The amazing thing is that many intellectually honest theological liberals acknowledge that evangelicals and fundamentalists generally adhere to the historical version of Christianity, and then go on to attack us for refusing to abandon it. By taking this position, Spong is actually even rejecting many of his own liberal fellow travelers by insisting that Christian orthodoxy was invented after the Scopes trials.

  3. Job, Im with you. Spong is just a big false teaching crybaby with little to no merit in defending his rank smelling ideology. You said it with much more detail but that about sums it up. Personally, Im glad he is retreating. He’d better, cause we do not bear the sword in vain.

    @ Neil..this guy used all of his worldly wisdom and status but to no avail. As the old song says, “I shall not be moved”. Hypocrite and fake only begins to describe this hireling. He is pulling a Mel White. He did this a couple of years back, too. “Manifesto”. Whatever.

  4. Leave this so called bishop to his reprobate mind and move on.
    Spong is profoundly lost and has no desire to even acknowledge
    sin in his life and Jesus Christ as his only means of delivery and salvation.
    Spong is delusional and has rejected the faith and has made a shipwreck of his faith and regrettably others who follow his
    man made baloney.
    When you see the Spongs’ of the world throw their fist in God’s
    face and dare a response, it is time to move out of the way and let God be God.
    Spong has been spewing anti God and anti Bible rhetoric for years and now he is mad because people are not embracing his foolishness
    as he thinks they should.
    What arrogance for a person to tell you to make a decision between man and God and when you say God…the man goes nuts because he wants to substitute his views on homosexuality in place of God’s decree. Now, that is a prime example of an anti-christ persona.

  5. Geez, his mummy wont give him what he wants so he throws his toys on the floor.

    The guy looks like he is about to kick the bucket at any moment and he still lacks wisdom! ever learning and not being able to come into the knowledge of God, A form of Godliness while denying the power thereof?

    Then he throws race and sex in the mix, its the teachings of Christ that offers liberty even if you are enslaved, doesnt he get that? Christ liberated women and He came to the Jews who rejected Him, so how is to blame for that? this is the heights of stupidity.

    Just read this on Dakota Voice Blog.

    Miles McPherson, recently debunked the fallacious racial assertion often employed by homosexual activists to excuse their behavior: “I know a lot of people who used to be gay; I don’t know anybody who used to be black.”

  6. This is what we get when seminaries stop teaching the absolute truths of the Holy Bible and incline to the moral relativism of the secular humanists. Spong and his kind are the primary educators of a new generation of nominally Christian theologians who have strayed from biblical principles and practise to secular humanism with a thin Christian veneer. Such an obvious departure from biblical standards should prompt the sincere gospel preacher to reconsider the nature of his ministry and commission. Shall we engage in the teaching and admonition of the faithful by the Word of God for their empowerment or shall we attempt to invoke the Lord to “bless our mess” for transient rewards? If one is to condemn the words and actions of John Spong (and rightly so, for he seems to be of an unrepentent reprobate mind), one must also inspect oneself through the lens of Scripture to do and be that which is pleasing to our Lord.
    There shall undoubtedly be a struggle within the Anglican Communion over the attitude of Spong and the Episcopal Church. What we should realise is that, despite the media portrayal of homosexuality and homophobia as the main reason for the realignment of the Church, the real reason for the division is the age old struggle between the eternal absolute truth of the Word of God and the old luciferian trick of moral relavatism. When put in that context we must all choose who we will serve.


  7. “the real reason for the division is the age old struggle between the eternal absolute truth of the Word of God and the old luciferian trick of moral relavatism. When put in that context we must all choose who we will serve.”

    Rev, Velley. I agree with you 100%! The issue of homosexuality is but a tool (albeit potent) in the more intense attempt to deactivate God’s word by satan’s minister’s of light.

    Romans 1 tells us it is the “power of God unto salvation”. The haters of God know they cannot change his word so they work overtime to create controversy, chaos and confusion and more so that people turn away from it.

    That’s why the gay christian doctrine is one of the most evil religious teachings to rise up. Let the saints beware.

  8. Well, I am not a huge fan of Bishop Spong I do understand where he is coming from on this particular issue, in 2010 I pray that as a society we move beyond the “homosexual issue” and debating it seems rather fruitless as beliefs on the subject of same sex attractions are strong on both sides….

    At the end of the day we don’t need to debate we need “love”; we can state our beliefs and we can continue in the ministry that the Lord has given us but to “debate” is useless, its “unnessary drama”….

    As a openly gay black minister/Christian I decided a long time ago that I wouldn’t debate my faith or my walk with God with other believers….but at the same time I do believe in sharing our testimony and sharing our views and thoughts even if they are different.

    Be blessed!

  9. There goes “minister” Williams parading under the cover that somehow he is part of the Body of Christ with his openly sinful
    nature and resulting sinful conduct.
    I hope no one who reads his gibberish is remotely convinced or believe that he is part of the Kingdom of God.
    “Minister” Williams espouses a foreign gospel and deliberately
    chooses to flaunt his sinful behavior as if it is OK with the Word of God.
    What a deluded man. God is not mocked and we should not accept
    what this “minister” says about the Word of God since as an un
    repentant he is not able to discern that which is spiritual since he is still under the domain of his father…Satan.
    Williams…repent and believe the gospel and quit parading yourself around as if somehow God has accepted you into his
    kingdom…until you repent you will bust hell wide open.
    When you speak, you speak from your un regenerate nature which is still sin controlled and you speak of and from your father
    the Devil who is the father of lies and which lie about homosexual
    behavior being condoned by God is one that you continue to spout.
    Maybe you have the mindset that if you continue to harp on your
    sinful lifestyle that with such repetitions, you might convince
    someone that such an aberrant lifestyle is OK with God.
    Or maybe you just like the attention that you can attract with your gibberish and like to bait people with your anti-God agenda.
    Either way, your destiny is in the Lake of Fire unless you cry out
    for mercy and repent and believe the gospel….but you know that.

  10. Williams, like all the other gay christian adherents who join us from time to time to argue their case here, prove that God’s word is true and every man a liar.

    I read what he has to say and much of it is just like the above, sadly ironic and tragic considering that he believes he can live in a sinful state and its okay with God.

    Many have held this erroneous belief and went into judgment only to find out that the other side held no joy for them.

    I guess what makes it such a tragic thing is the difference between a sinner and his sin and a person who claims to be a follower of Christ defending his sin as normal.

    Didnt Christ address this is in Luke 18?

    9And He spoke this parable unto certain ones who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
    10″Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a publican.

    11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, `God, I thank Thee that I am not as other men are: extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

    12I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’

    13And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, `God, be merciful to me a sinner!’

    4I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other; for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased, and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”

    How can any person who claims to be righteous justify —as a norm— what is clearly unrighteous, except he is reprobate?

    Same goes for Spong.

  11. What do you mean: “We do not bear the sword in vain?” Are you suggesting someone should murder Spong? Are you that vile?

    GCMW: Arnold, do you even read the bible? If so, you wouldnt ask such a shallow minded question. I tell you what, take some time and read and then you tell me what that means.

  12. “……ongoing prejudices against blacks, Jews, women and homosexual persons….”

    What does the Bible say?

    Galatians 3:26-29
    26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

    27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

    You belong to Christ only if you follow His Commandments. ;^)

  13. “……ongoing prejudices against blacks, Jews, women and homosexual persons….”

    Oh I forgot to add that I can’t stand how homosexuals always group themselves with other ethnic groups like they are somehow genetically predisposition to that lifestyle choice.

    *end rant*

  14. GCMW — Yes, I do read the Bible and I know the passage to which you allude. It was St. Paul exhorting Christians to obey civil authority because “they do not bear the sword in vain,” a quite literal description of what the state may do to lawbreakers. So again I ask, what did YOU mean?

    GCMW: The Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, is our offensive weapon. It is incredibly powerful and effective at driving away the enemy and tearing down his work. I do not bear the sword in vain. Eph 6:17. Now, can we move on?

  15. Pastor Foster stated:
    Many have held this erroneous belief and went into judgment only to find out that the other side held no joy for them.

    My response:

    GCMW: Yes, really.
    Can you provide us with the names of the many individuals who held my beliefs that went into judgment only to find no joy?
    GCMW: No, and that wouldnt change the fact that hell hath enlarged itself to accommodate the “many”. Read Is chapter 5

    Can you name the place you spoke to these people who went to judgment?
    GCMW: No, (1) there’s no requirement to “speak” to them and (2) the rich man in Luke 16 was unnamed also, so what point does knowing a name serve?
    Can you name the date and time and location you talked to these people who you stated went into judgment?
    GCMW: After death comes judgment per Heb 9:27. So the time is after death. Dates are as varied as the people.
    When you say “went into judgment”, what do you mean?
    GCMW: See the parable of the rich man in Luke 16
    Did these people die and went before God and was sent to hell and are you saying you know this to be a fact?
    GCMW: see above per Jesus
    If so, how do you know?
    GCMW: see above, again per Jesus’ teaching
    Were you there?
    GCMW: The bible gives adequate, trustworthy witness, so I dont need to “be there”. I have never been to the moon, but I know its there.
    Did you witness this with your own eyes or is this simply your assumption that many with my beliefs went into judgment only to find no joy?
    GCMW: See, parable of rich man as told by Christ.

    This is really not about what you blogged, the question at hand of this thread is “should homosexuality be debated” or “is the debate over”. According to what you believe and what some (not all) verisons of the Bible state; “homosexuality” is a sin; if so what is there to debate about? In other words there is no debate and as such you are in agreement with myself and Bishop Spong…there is no debate or need to debate–so how about we end the debate–agreed?

    GCMW: No, not agreed. There was no question posed as to what should or should not be debated. If you dont want to participate, its as simple as not posting. But before you depart should you is the same as what Jesus told the rich man. If they wont believe the living, they wont believe the dead. Before you end up in a place of eternal torment as taught by perfectly loving Jesus, you should take heed and repent of your sins. After death, no such opportunity exists.

  16. Lafe said:

    There goes “minister” Williams parading under the cover that somehow he is part of the Body of Christ with his openly sinful
    nature and resulting sinful conduct.
    I hope no one who reads his gibberish is remotely convinced or believe that he is part of the Kingdom of God.

    My response:
    Its not my desire to “parade” or “convince” anyone of anything..that is foolish and unnessary. I’ve stated why I come to this blog and I will repeat myself, I come here because I find Pastor Foster’s blogs interesting and informative and from time to time I respond and my responses are just that my beliefs/opinons and mine own view and/or interpretation of scriptures. I am not out to sway anyone or convince anyone of anything…now regarding the rest of your post of which I will not repost again, its rather clear you are trying to convince me of who is my father and where I will spend eternity and that’s fine but your little scare tactics about my father being Satan and Hell being my dwelling place and all of that craziness means absolutely nothing to me. If you want to label me as a reprobate then by all means do so. Thank the Lord that my relationship with him has nothing to do with you or your beliefs.

    I won’t go back and forward on this because like I said initially its “unnessary drama” so respectfully lets not make this about “me”…stick to the issue of the blog. Do you feel as if the church needs to continue “debating” the issue of homosexuality? If not, then whether you like or not you are in agreement with myself and Bishop Spong. If you feel as if the debate should continue, then express your reasons why and lets have a meaningful discussion on the issue at hand…


  17. My word, how much plainer does the Word of God have to be? people who PRACTICE such sins and the like will not go to heaven, its plain

    Gal 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    I dont get this relationship with Jesus thing, which Jesus are you talking about? I cannot see how you can love sin and then talk about having a strong vibrant relationship with Christ. I am sorry but thats just not true, you are in a relationship but not with Christ because the bible tells me that the Holy Spirit convicts of sin.

    This is terrible.

    M.A.W please repent of your sins, I doubt there is anyone that is beyond having a fight with any sin in their life but fight we must.

  18. Paul, exactly. Maybe they’re not aware there really is another jesus, another gospel and another spirit. And all of them are false.

    2 Cor 11: 3But I fear lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
    4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit which ye have not received, or another gospel which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

    another Jesus – (allos) is a primary word; “else,” different (in many applications) The name is the same, its the name Jesus from the Bible but it is not the Jesus of the Bible. He is different one, with some similarities on the surface level.

    A different Spirit -(heteros)-to number as opposed to some former person or thing the other of two; referring to quality: that is, one that is not of the same nature, form, class, or kind, to be different.

    Another Gospel (heteros) of uncertain affinity; different: altered, strange. It is not the same one Paul preached, it has a qualitative difference.

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