Candace Chellew's bulletproof conspiracy theory

candaceOle bulletproof is at it again, this time via Religion Dispatches lambasting the founders of TripleXChurch for trying to help homosexuals and sex industry workers (prostitutes et al).

Although Candace Chellew claims to be a gay christian, a Rwandan elephant might be a better representation. We’ve talked about her sophistic butchery of scripture here and here before. Now she’s protesting gays at parades being treated with love. She’s found incontrovertible evidence  of a conservative Christian conspiracy to convert gays from their true orientation with a sinister bait and switch tactic using water bottles and bracelets. Wow, thankfully she’s now exposed it and gays the world over are safe.

A new book by two pastors with a ministry focus on traditional sexual “sinners” like those in the porn industry and those who “struggle” with pornography, is seeking to revive this sort of “friendship evangelism.” They’re traveling the country, attending gay pride parades, handing out “Jesus Loves You” water bottles and wrist bracelets apologizing for how the church has treated “sinners” like gays and lesbians.

On the serious side, Ms Chellew’s biggest problem (like most gay christian clerics) is that she has a substantial amount of misplaced (and unjustified) caan-like anger at God and his Word. Sorry, republicans, conservative Christians, James Dobson nor Exodus International created the Bible. In fact, no one Chellew continuously blames had anything whatsoever to do with what is contained in the scriptures. But because we simply believe what it says and proclaim its truth, its just as if you wrote those hateful words to her. That’s a reference to the homosexuality is an abomination part which she doesn’t like because she thinks her lesbianism is her identity.

Its strange that one sinner would say, I’m better than that sinner because I don’t do that! Isnt that breaking the dreaded thou shalt not be judgmental law? Believe it or not that’s exactly Chellew’s issue with sex industry workers. She’s better than those degenerates!

“The offensiveness of this “friendship evangelism” cannot be overstated. Let me outline what I find most offensive. First, gay and lesbian people are lumped in with porn stars. I agree with them that the porn industry is harmful not just to women, but to men. It degrades both men and women—but women especially. I join with them in their quest to change the behavior of porn stars. However, I am offended that my community is lumped in with them. There is absolutely no comparison. It’s like comparing the heterosexual community to the porn industry. Yes, there are some perverts in the heterosexual community, but that doesn’t mean the whole community is perverse. Same goes for the gay and lesbian community.”

So what’s wrong with handing out bottles of water and Jesus loves you bracelets at gay pride events? Gays have always complained that Christians don’t show them love and are always hatin’ on them cause of who they are. Well, now that Jason Harper and Craig Gross are not doing that Chellew thinks its definitely because they are conniving “friendship evangelism” devotees like her sister. Who, by the way she mistrusts too.

Well, with all this Christian 007 action going on, just who does Chellew, defender of the gay christian kingdom of gay faith trust? Most likely herself and her book, Bulletproof Faith. Its her version of how to protect yourself from the evil Christians who want to tell you Jesus loves you but secretly want you to burn in hell. Its like a one year how-to-survive-in-post-Sadam Iraq guide.  Talk about conspiracy theories.

While Chellew is busy instructing frightened gays how to duck and dodge Christians who sincerely love them, perhaps its never occurred to her (that comes from fear of reading the bible) God might actually be still speaking to her over and over.

As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.” Heb 3:15. In other words, when God speaks to you, don’t play the bulletproof card.

And doesn’t God move in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform? Afterall, God did grant a jackass temporary speaking abilities to reprimand an apostate prophet and tell him he was about to get his head chopped off by an angel.  The case of Balaam strangely parallels the whole bulletproof ideology. Lying to people about God will only result in bondage, disobedience and severe consequences.

Apostate-in-chief John Shelby Spong (remember him?) wrote of BPF “It is an amazing truth that gay and lesbian Christians need to develop a bullet-proof faith in order to survive the attack of other Christians. That, however, is the experience of many homosexual persons. Candace Chellew-Hodge has in this book committed herself to the task of making that survival a reality. I salute her and her work”

Sounds like a perpetual victimization manifesto cult pledge. Like Spong’s crybaby manifesto, Chellew declares “there’s only one side to this issue.”   There’s something  ironically hypocritical about that when Challew’s church the UCC declares “God is still speaking”. But such are those who live in deception.

The incredulous thing is that people like Bulletproofing Chellew and Manifesto-ing Spong actually want us to believe them instead of God. What foolish arrogance.

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19 NIV

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62 thoughts on “Candace Chellew's bulletproof conspiracy theory

  1. Very well. I will show up at my local pentecostal church with bracelets that say “Elton John Loves You” and we’ll see who’s offended.

    As a former evanglical Christian and a lesbian I know what goes on when Christians are planning friendship evangelism. It’s practically a multi-level marketing scheme and rewards people for converting others. Being someone’s friend in order to change them isn’t friendship, it’s cold, calculating manipulation that relies on the “target” being vunerable and lonely… something Jesus would never have tolerated.

    If Christians want to show that they can really love those who are different from them, they should stop protesting civil liberties for gay people. They should welcome gay people into their congregations. In short, they should behave like Christ. Do you really think Jesus would be at a teabag convention, cheering on Sarah Palin? Just try and visualise it.

    As they say in AA “Religion is for those who fear hell. Spirituality is for those who’ve been there already.” Most gays have been there already — loss of family, friends, careers, etc. Quit trying to sell us your mickey mouse version of faith. Gays who still believe have a rock-hard diamond of faith that has been pressed and tested in every way possible.

    You powder puff Christians should look at them in awe.

  2. You ask me to be nice. I’ll try. Could you also be a little more civilized in your critiques of my friend Candace and other activist gay Christians? No reasonable person would fault you for offering evidence that ones sexual orientation affects ones ability to live a Christian life. Comparisons with Rwandan elephants seem not only off-the-wall, but over the top.

    As long as I don’t discuss my sexual preferences, no one questions my fitness to be a member of any Christian denomination. But if some preacher were to start saying that wearing cotton/polyester blends is an abomination (it is! — Lev. 19.19) and called me out by name as unfit for the Kingdom of Heaven, I might become a little defensive; I might seek to bullet-proof my faith.

    So have a heart; get a life; look for logs in your own eye. God will love you for it.

  3. Arnold, Im really not interested in your defense of false teachers or their false teachings. However if you have something more substantial to discuss other than cotton and polyester, state your case.
    Take note:
    1. There was no “comparison” to a Rwandan elephant. Reading is elementary
    2. Had there been a comparison, it would have been much kinder than the fate of hellfire which those who pervert God’s truth will inherit.

  4. CanuckJacq, your former state is not God’s fault but your own rejection of his Word. Repent and return to him backslider and he will abundantly pardon. That should be your first order of business since you seem so proud of that.

    I’ve not endorsed so-called friendship evangelism so you can back your bark up two notches.

    Acceptance is based on trust. If a person chooses to gain someone’s trust so that they can tell them about Christ, what’s the big problem? You seem to be saying that despite all the mega pride parades and debauched parties, gays are “vunerable and lonely”. Sounds like they can use a friend.

  5. My comment is simply that Bulletproofing your faith makes it impossible for spirited discussion of the truth and drastically reduces progress. If a person comes to the wrong conclusions and then ‘bulletproofs’ them by calling any person who disagrees a fundy or some other demeaning name then that mind is closed and not open to discuss, thwarting any progress.

    In the case of Candace’s book we can discuss her christian history and theology without even touching on her conclusions about homosexuality. This poor history, theology, and interpretation of Scripture is the foundation of many of her conclusions. Scripture speaks to the house built on a foundation of sand. The interpretation of Scripture, mentioned in this article, is the fundamental issue. We shouldn’t take issue with her stand on homosexuality outright because it fits with her interpretation of Scripture and Christian History. But we should take issue with her interpretation of the inspired Word of God.

    We shouldn’t want to discuss the morality of homosexuality primarily but we should discuss the interpretation of Scripture. The rest will not doubt take care of itself in the end. So in love I think we should all be constantly evaluating and re-evaluating what we believe and how to apply those beliefs. However, by bulletproofing false conclusions reached by errant study, personal experience, or prejudice there is no evaluation or re-evaluation.

  6. I’m not “proud” of my ex-evangelist past. It’s just how I know what goes on in your circles. I say it lest someone accuse me of being wantonly cynical.

    I note you have totally ignored my suggestions of how Christians can actually gain some trust from the gay community. Sadly, your attitude is pretty typical.

    I didn’t say gays are vunerable and lonely. I said the tactics employed by many evangelicals rely on their targets being vunerable and lonely. Sorry to be so unclear.

  7. In 1814, Sir John David Michaelis wrote his four-volume Commentaries on the Law of Moses. In it he explains why sodomy is considered the worst of all vices in a society and that a nation which once embraces it is most likely not to escape from its powerful, consuming grasp.

    “If we reflect on the dreadful consequences of sodomy to a state, and on the extent to which this abominable vice may be secretly carried on and spread, we cannot, on the principles of sound policy, consider the punishment as too severe. For if it once begins to prevail, not only will boys be easily corrupted by adults, but also by other boys; nor will it ever cease; more especially as it must thus soon lose all its shamefulness and infamy and become fashionable and the national taste; and then . . . national weakness, for which all remedies are ineffectual, most inevitably follow; not perhaps in the very first generation, but certainly in the course of the third or fourth. . . . To these evils may be added yet another, viz. that the constitutions of those men who submit to this degradation are, if not always, yet very often, totally destroyed, though in a different way from what is the result of whoredom. Whoever, therefore, wishes to ruin a nation, has only to get this vice introduced; for it is extremely difficult to extirpate it where it has once taken root because it can be propagated with much more secrecy . . . and when we perceive that it has once got a footing in any country, however powerful and flourishing, we may venture as politicians to predict that the foundation of its future decline is laid and that after some hundred years it will no longer be the same . . . powerful country it is at present.” (Quoted in Barton, p.6-7)

    CanuckJacq, you want Christians to get out of the way, huh? Whenever homosexuals have the full rights to marry and are considered normal such as our president wants, the US will turn into an even bigger cesspool.

    You would be better off repenting.

    Deut 30:19
    This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

    Your children can choose for themselves under the new covenant but you will die.

  8. Jeff, I think that’s a fair assessment of CC’s bulletproofing ideology or closing your mind off ala Spong manifesto to the honest pursuit of God’s truth. Even without looking at the open and shut case of homosexual sin, there’s an entire body of evidence that Chellew has no ability to rightly divide the Word of truth. Her blind approach is filtered through too much darkness.

    In the case of the “new gentiles” and Jack Rogers defense peice, CC’s basic theology is so disjointed doesnt resemble simple error, but intentional mishandling of scripture to deceive others.

  9. Canuckjacq, how does your suggestion of “making gays welcome” in church any better than friendship evangelism? The person’s motives could still be the same. Sure gay people can come to church and in thousands of churches all over the nation they are welcome. But welcoming them doesnt mean we neglect to preach against sin of all type including homosexual sin. The church isnt a country club to come and feel good about yourself. If youre in sin, your life is on sinking sand.

    And this caveat: going to church isnt the answer to sin, repentance is.

  10. Thanks for your criticism of my “handling” of scripture. It helps me to know that I’m on the right path. The day GCMWatch agrees with me is the day I know I’ve taken a completely wrong turn and need to repent.

    GCMW: Agreeing with gcmwatch is not the issue nor is it a goal. Youre way out of sync with God’s word. But what else is new with you?

  11. My point is that bulletproofing is not an action without cause — it is a reaction to bullets flying. Since you chose to ignore one obvious reference to scripture, let me cite it from the NIV:

    Matthew 7:3″Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

    Clearly, Jesus regarded self-righteousness and hypocrisy to be much graver sins than sexual immorality. You can deny the sense of what I say all you like, but you are still accountable to your own conscience. I’ll leave you to it.

  12. Arnold E. Karr, what would you say to adulterers misinterpreting scripture and then bulletproofing it?

    The church, talks about all sin – pornography, murder, lying, stealing, prostitution – why is it that people who do such things are not saying that “the church is against us”? Why is it that ther are not coming into the church and saying this is who I am accept me this way and I dont have to change, God made me this way?

    The reason you and the homosexual community call the truth bullets is because it offends you. Drugs users hang with drug users and not someone who wil tell them its wrong, until they get tired of it.

    ‘Behold, a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a FRIEND of tax-gatherers and sinners!’ (Luke 7:34)

    2 Corinthians 5:18
    18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has GIVEN US the ministry of reconciliation,

    Jesus’ came to seek and save the lost, not to make them feel comfortable in sin. Likewise God has called the Church to reach sinners so one cannot get upset with the Church trying to minister to the lost. You find this means deceptive because you love your sin.

  13. As a gay Christian clergywoman in good standing I take great exception to your comments regarding my attitude toward scripture. I was raised on scripture literally from the womb. I continue to preach from it directly (you might even say expositionally). However, I do not check the brain that God gave me at the door. God asks us to meditate and to delight on God’s word. He also reminds us that by the measure you judge you will be judged. Candace has made it her focus to speak gently and respectfully to those who disagree with her and to not judge their Christian life and virtue. Yet simply because she (and I am sure as soon as you read this my) love is given to a woman, you judge her less than Christian and then feel no qualms in speak in a very un-Christ-like manner about her. And then you choose to insult those who respond to your tone and to point out the inconsistencies in your approach to scripture. Jesus saved his insults for those who closed the faith to others and used it for self-aggrandizement. One must ask whether your smug comments and insults are more Christ-like or more Pharisee-like? Perhaps you ought to start with plank in your own eye?

  14. To Mr. Arnold E. Karr,

    You are utlizing that passage out of context and applying to it a general meaning of your choosing.

    And hence this causes you to make a wrong assumption, namely that the person who is pointing out the truthfull statement that God considers the continued active participation in Homosexual acts as proof that a person is not in right standing with God and therefore will not enter into Heaven but will be rejected by God.

    As someone who is also commiting grave sins as detailed in God’s word that shows they are not in right standing with God and will also not enter Heaven.

  15. Ever notice how the pharisees evoke “scripture” and the faithful evoke Jesus? The word Christian should be reserved for those who seek to emulate Christ.

    Because… that’s what it means.

  16. CanuckJacq said:

    As they say in AA “Religion is for those who fear hell. Spirituality is for those who’ve been there already.” Most gays have been there already — loss of family, friends, careers, etc. Quit trying to sell us your mickey mouse version of faith. Gays who still believe have a rock-hard diamond of faith that has been pressed and tested in every way possible.

    I say in response:

    2 snaps in a circle and a Amen!..(with my hands on my hips..)…hehehe….such a powerful statement…I love that…Lord knows I have a “rock-hard diamond of faith that has surely been pressed and tested but Im still holding on to my faith…”….PTL

  17. Canuckjacq, as I said you and the other gay christian adherents dont like scripture to be “evoked” because it exposes the wickedness in your heart. Has nothing to do with pharisees unless of course you are calling Jesus a pharisee. HE said, if you [say] you love me, then you will obey me John 14:15. By affirming something God has said is sin (your lesbianism) there’s direct conflict with Christ’s words. Blaming boogey man pharisees wont change that. Get rid of the misdirected anger and admit you really dont care what God says. You cant emulate Christ by loving sin.

  18. It is amazing to me how inidividuals call themselves Christian ministers and completely remove the sin issue from their belief structure. The bible says that in the last days people will not endure sound doctrine. 2 Tim 4:3. This attack has consumed a large part of the Christian Church. The homosexual issue I believe is the final nail in the coffin that will usher in Christs return.

  19. “Ever notice how the pharisees evoke “scripture” and the faithful evoke Jesus? The word Christian should be reserved for those who seek to emulate Christ.”

    That could not be a serious statment. The best way to know Christ is by the scripture, the more a man looks into scripture the more he will be like Christ.

    2 Corinthians 3:18 (Amplified Bible)
    18And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we] continued to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for this comes] from the Lord [Who is] the Spirit.

    The scripture says we should be transformed by the renewing of our minds, how will that happen apart from Gods word?

    Romans 12:2
    2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

    1 Peter 2:2 2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,

    John 1
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Hebrews 4:12
    12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    John 6:63
    63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

    2 Timothy 3:16-17
    16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

  20. These comments are senseless. Regarding homosexuality, those who engage choose a lie over the truth of God. You allow your sexual choice to lead you and not Christ. Where are you denying yourself to follow Christ, the truth? You call light darkness and darkness light. As Paul stated, you’ve been given over to your unnatural desires and you will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Also, being an ordained minister does not justify your lifestyle or you being appointed by God. Any body can become ordained, especially with certain denominations not following the Word of God. Your papers or position does not mean the Holy Spirit is with you. Saul had the position and title but the Spirit had left him when he chose to disobey God. If you embrace homosexuality or any sin, you have a reprobabte mind and you love a lie and deny the truth. God help you.

  21. You can go online right now and download a Bishop License.

    Min. Antwoine Williams said: 2 snaps in a circle and a Amen!..(with my hands on my hips..)

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
    10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

    *Bold Emphasis Mine*

  22. Arnold E. Karr said:

    Matthew 7:3″Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

    Since there is not a plank in my eye therefore I am not operating as a hypocrite this doesn’t apply to me. So that allows me remove the speck from my brothers eye. Christ is saying if your going to correct your brother make sure you are right first before God.

    But who is my brother? Not this guy

    1 John 3-8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

    Matthew 7:6Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

    1 Cor6:9-10 says homosexuality is a sin.

    Homosexuals can’t change you say? really? That’s not what the Bible says.

    1 Corinthians 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

    ……Too not practice homosexuality anymore.

  23. Dear GCMWatch (Author):

    As I scroll through some of your recent responses, I’ve posted this before — the website is SO relevant, SO real, SO kingdom-minded, so NECESSARY — but please, my brother, be careful not to become that christian blog that is so snarky, condescending and full of patronizing commentary that after a while you can’t see the holy forest for the fleshly trees, if you get my analogous drift!

    I believe you’re doing a tremendous work and I would absolutely hate for you to fall victim to the shrewd traps of our enemy and diminish or damage this great platform you’ve been blessed with.

    Consider this: though you can spell the longest word in any Bible concordance in a split second and are so eloquent as to win great acclaim — though you stay abreast of every perverse move the devil tries to make on the Body of Christ — though you are the invited guest on a thousand talk shows and a hundred blog interviews — if they can’t feel your “keyboard love”…

    With Much Agape, A GCM Cheerleader

    (and please don’t feel you have to publicly post this)

    GCMW: Thanks, your points are well taken. We’ll take the bite down a couple of notches.

  24. A note to Deana: You are delusional in believing that because you have been exposed to the scriptures and have been teaching or
    preaching them for a long period of time that somehow that has earned you a “free pass” from God from your sins.
    If you are gay and living a gay lifestyle, you are a sinner and in need of repentance.
    You can put lipstick and a calico dress on a pig and it is still a pig.
    Deana, God does not give a wit that you may have written a hundred books on the scriptures, donated thousands of hours to
    “worthy causes” and you have prayed a million prays…if you are
    not born again, all of that was in vain and you are still hell bound. What don’t you understand about you need to be born again?
    God has no fine print for people who profess their “good works”
    as you do as a means of avoiding judgment.
    A holy God is not amused by your verbal jujitsu when it comes to you trying to justify your sins before God.
    You can pervert scriptures all you want in order to please yourself but God’s truth remains, you must be born again and turn from your sins.
    What is not clear to you and “minister” Williams? Please note that I place in quotation marks the word minister when referring to Williams since he is not in the eyes of God a minister that God recognizes. But Williams likes to play mind games with himself and in his make believe world…God condones his sins.
    Talking about the blind enjoying their blindness!
    The gay community and especially those who pretend that they are ministers of the gospel of Jesus Christ or are preaching and teaching with the anointing of God’s Holy Spirit, is in deep denial of the Word of God because they want to be. They want to continue in their sin and create an artificial world in which the god that they create is OK with homosexuality. That is a lie from
    Satan who is the father of all lies.
    The gay christian (no such word) community lies to itself because
    otherwise, they would have to bend their knee to Jesus and repent of their sins and they would rather keep on sinning and not be in submission to God’s reign and rule.

  25. To Lafe, you have being warning “min” Antwoine Williams about the danger of him spending eternity in the Lake of Fire. I just want to remind you that he does not care what you or the bible says about his sin. I went digging and found this statement he made on Nov 16, 2009, 10:15 am

    As far as “hell” is concern; I am not going to hell…but if I was going to hell..simply for being Gay..being me..being who I am..for loving another individual to the best of my ability..then to Hell I will go willingly..sorry dude..that hell stuff doesn’t scare me..or most people…it doesn’t scare me because I have a degree in religious studies; I know Bible History 101, 102 and 103…I know what’s been added..deleted..altered..changed..manipulated..i know how religious institutions work, how organizations work to publish Bibles that fit into their homophobic thinking to make themselves feel better by putting other’s down..started with “anyone non-jewish” then “anyone non-catholic” then “anyone non-christian” then “anyone non-white” then anyone “non-male” and now “anyone non-heterosexual”. God is not that shallow as many Bibles have been published are, esp. Bibles written and published in the last 100 years.

    My questions to “min” Williams is. Are you sure you are willing to go there? Is a few years of sexual gratification worth your immortal soul? What if you are wrong and the bible, taken at face value is right?

    Forever is a long time. You are without excuse.

  26. roscoe1, thats a frightening comment, willing to go to hell for perverse sexual gratification?

    I too have studied bible history to a point and I know that the bible we have does not contradict it in its original text.

  27. Rascoe that’s the curse of spiritual blindness, forever learning and never be able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    However, there are others besides Williams reading, if they receive the warning and turn its not too late. They know they are not right with God and despite their good feelings about their sexuality, they sense they are out of place with God.

    Its for you this message God has intended for you to read. Dont turn away and continue along a path away from God, turn to him and repent with a contrite heart and he will abundantly pardon.

    You know who you are.

  28. Really when you look at it there is no need to study so called Bible history 101, 102, 103 ad infinitum. God doesnt require it, he simply requires submission and obedience to his published will which is clear and direct. Check this: Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved. Williams and others like the ones we have to take to task here at GCM Watch muddy the waters with all the “enlightenment” they claim to have which has allegedy brought them freedom from the law of God. Its a false path that leads to bondage and worse eternal damnation.

  29. Pastor I agree, the bible translation we have is simple enough to follow and it seems as if people want to study the bible in this way to find loop holes! There are none and the KJV is more than enough for any believer to live by.

    This statement by Canuckjacq is quite revealing,

    If Christians want to show that they can really love those who are different from them, they should stop protesting civil liberties for gay people.

    He admits that people who claim homosexuality is right are not Christians, no?

  30. I think canuck just want us to support gay marriage etc, then it will signal to them we love them.

    I do support fundamental civil liberties per the constitution for gay Americans as I do for all Americans. The problem is their insertion of several special priveleges as “rights and liberties” are not on my approval list.

  31. Pastor Foster you are so right, it is indeed spiritual blindness, and observing it is very scary.

  32. Okay, Paul N, Lafe and Rascoe..and Pastor Foster..

    This is not the right thread to discuss scriptures as it relates to homosexuality. If Pastor Foster is so led and starts an open blog where we all can discuss (with respect) our views/take on the scriptures as it relates to homosexuality; then I will gladly share where I am coming from and why I believe that not only am I God’s child, his chosen, anointed to preach and teach in such a season as this but also I am in right standing according to the scriptures in their original form and meaning. So, if Pastor Foster opens up a thread or blog that would allow such a discussion to take place..then I will gladly participate.

    It is so easy to post scripture and a make point and then claim its so simple, so plain….yeah..when one side is presented then I guess it is plain and simple..when only one version of the Bible is used and a version that caters to your beliefs then of course its simple and plain..but lets have a detailed conversation…a honest true discussion on the scriptures…..

    Pastor Foster?….are you willing to allow such a discussion without deleting post or making your blog one sided…what is there to fear…open up the thread/blog..let’s really discuss…let’s really share, question..if you will “debate”…let your readers come to their own conclusions instead of trying to feed them with one sided half truths that don’t even go deep enough to really minister and bring about “true deliverance”!

    GCMW: lets not be childish here. We have over two years of open discussion and debate on homosexuality and the bible on this blog. Just because youre the latest to object wont secure you the right to your own personal platform. Take some time and read. You’ll see the same ole stuff youre ready to throw out, already debunked. Anything new we can look at?

    Its up to you..,..otherwise..you guys can continue to talk about me…with all of your labels..out of context scriptures..etc…

  33. To Paul N:

    There are none and the KJV NAS95S is more than enough for any believer to live by.

    FTFY.

    Peter.

  34. How can you debate this? What is so hard about understanding that if you are a adulterer, thief, idolater, homosexual ect you will not inherit the Kingdom of God?

    The Bible is very clear lets stop acting like God didn’t invent languages like He was incapable of preserving His Word through the generations for All Time. Please…….The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob has Never made an error/contradiction and there isn’t one in the Holy Bible.

    1 Corinthians 6:9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,

    10Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.

    Revelation 21:8But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

    Galatians 5:19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

    20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

    21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

  35. MAW, Has there ever been a time in Judaism when homosexuality was accepted? I am sure they understood the original text.

  36. “Min” A. Williams, you did not answer my questions. You said you would willingly go to hell for your beliefs. My question is, are you sure? Please don’t answer yes just to prove a point to the readers of this site, this might be your last opportunity to stay out of hell. Are you sure you would willingly go there? Before you answer, try to recall all you have read about the Lake of Fire, and tell me if you would willingly spend eternity there.

    This is not about what you believe, nor how you feel, this is about the truth and what is a fact. You know that what a person believe or feel does not change what is absolute truth. Remember you have made a choice not to take the Bible on face value and you might be wrong, (I know you are wrong, but that is beside the point). Please consider this….After you get there you CANNOT change your mind.

  37. You know that what a person believe or feel does not change what is absolute truth.

    Thats the truth roscoe, I remember watching a show of a black man that said he felt like he was white!? poor guy, he was still black and everyone else knew except for him. This whole false movement is based on feelings and emotions. The current Tiger Woods situtaion, lets us know that following emotions and feelings can be a very bad thing.

  38. Paul, I have watch movies and cry, read books and cry. Even though I know them to be fiction. We cannot trust our emotions.

  39. Amen Robert. Why must you study foreign, ancient languages as if God coated these verses with some sort of mystical dimension only those who read the ancient texts can truly understand?

    And why havent any of these people shared with us their credentials to interpret such deep languages. Why should I trust someone who has an incentive to defend their sin over God who is above all and 100% trustworthy throughout the ages?

    INSANITY!

  40. Oh this is telling. Why study at all? The “published” Word of God is sufficient.

    really? REALLY?

    What did Christians do before the printing press? Oh yeah, the believed completely different things… until someone studied, and questioned. Do you regret the Reformation?

    God gave us brains to use, not to switch off with endless refrains of “Shine, Jesus, Shine”.

  41. CanuckJacq said: What did Christians do before the printing press?

    Wrote letters and copied them word for word. Just like the rest of the known world.

    Oh yeah, the believed completely different things.

    Non gay affirming apostate proof of this please?

  42. Thats not what Im saying. Im saying there is no requirement or need to study near ancient eastern religious texts found in the dead sea by quaran rangers from the lost tribes when “abc, 123” is as plain as the sun in the sky.

    God said: A man shall not lie with a man as with a woman.
    God said: you can eat every tree in the garden except this one

    So what is it about that I dont understand? If I dont want to accept it as truth, that where the hoops and loops start to come into play.

    If you have children, you speak to them plainly and you dont require them to get multiple honor degrees from Oxford before they understand and do what you tell them.

    Hope that’s plain enough.

  43. The study of scripture is to ge get a better understanding of truth, to build your faith. How can it lead to saying the word is fallible?

    Madness!!

  44. To rascoe,

    The answer to your question is clear…I am not concerned, afraid about going to Hell! I would advise you to study the scriptures in their original text..and speak with people who actually are experts in the native languages of the Bible…also “read”, “study”..history and then really ponder upon the scriptures and really dig deep into them to discover the message God has sent to his people via the scriptures…

    To Pastor Foster

    I guess the answer to my challenge to you is “NO”..I may just read previous blogs so I can get an understanding of what has been said, shared on your blog..hopefully the information shared was valid, accurate..and enlightening…on both sides of the argument.

    To Paul N, Lafe…

    You can’t have a conversation with someone who is convince he or she knows better…so there is no need to continue to entertain you guys..we will just disagree on this issue….

  45. MAW, all I asked you to do is to show me a time in history when homosexuality was accepted in Judaism, when it was deemed holy.

    Thats a cop out to say you cannot talk to people who think they already know. You havent given one shred of evidence of your claim. If I am brother in Christ and I am in error, it is your duty to give me the truth and if i reject it, the problem is mine.

  46. Paul, it isnt just MAW, this entire gay christian movement is built on a lie. And they have grown and paid for their own “experts” and “theologians” to support the lie. They introduce strawman after strawman because no one can contend with the sharp and undeniable wisdom of God’s word. No matter what corner you turn the word of God will expose a lie everytime. Perhaps more dangerous than sexual perversion is living and making a lie. All shall have their part in the lake of fire which burns with fire and brimstone. Rev 21.8 This “bulletproof” mess is nothing but a clever trick of satan to insulate people from God’s truth. How wicked is that: with holding the truth in unrighteousness.

    What MAW and the folks we have earnestly contended with here want to advance is a doctrine of sensuality. That means their sexual desires, emotions, actions and supportive lifestyles mean more to them than simple submission to the will of God. Like the rich young ruler, its the one thing they will not give up to follow Christ. The twist is they walk away from the true Christ and find another jesus who will be the god of their sexuality.

    This is the abominable, destitute teaching we must fight with all diligence from overtaking the church of Christ. Personally, I could care less about the smiling faces, “great” singing and talents and money they have to offer. When you bear another gospel, the bible says to treat you as accursed. MAW, your words are cursed and so are you for rejecting God’s word. There’s only one way to change your status which we have said to you over and over: repent and humble yourself before the Lord.

    But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned! Gal 1:8

    There’s just no room in God’s church for any other gospel!

  47. Wow…no one’s sexuality should ever stand in the way of understanding God’s Truth. With all of the “knowledge” that gay activist have they just read around some very plain statements like in Romans 1:
    “26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    I mean, wow… seems to be more than a mere suggestion that homosexuality is an abomination and God will judge the homosexual,AND YES even the heterosexual transgressor, and ALL who are practicing unrepentent sin.

  48. Min. Antwoine Williams :
    CanuckJacq said:

    I say in response:
    Antoine Williams said…2 snaps in a circle and a Amen!..(with my hands on my hips..)…hehehe….such a powerful statement…I love that…Lord knows I have a “rock-hard diamond of faith that has surely been pressed and tested but Im still holding on to my faith…”….PTL

    My response…Antoine, if you believe TWO MEN should be in a relationship, why are you acting the part of a WOMAN? That’s an admission that relationships should be between man and woman. The TRUTH always comes out.

  49. Jackson said:

    Min. Antwoine Williams :

    CanuckJacq said:

    I say in response:
    Antoine Williams said…2 snaps in a circle and a Amen!..(with my hands on my hips..)…hehehe….such a powerful statement…I love that…Lord knows I have a “rock-hard diamond of faith that has surely been pressed and tested but Im still holding on to my faith…”….PTL

    My response…Antoine, if you believe TWO MEN should be in a relationship, why are you acting the part of a WOMAN? That’s an admission that relationships should be between man and woman. The TRUTH always comes out.

    Because he has an effeminate demon causing him to manifest that behavior which pertains to a woman.

  50. To Jackson:

    I don’t want to be a woman, I am a Gay Black Male..with some feminine qualities of which I am proud of; there is a difference. I enjoy being who I am and I make no apologies for it!….But be not fooled; I have many qualities…letting my hair down…is just one of them..:)….gosh..people…lighten up!..hehehehe

    To Paul N

    You want to me show you a time in History when homosexuals were involved or deemed Holy..okay…a few

    A. David and Jonathan
    B. Daniel and the Eunuch
    C. Ham and his Father Noah (although this was a father son relationship..it did turn sexual..also note..such pratice of sex between parents/relatives was not looked down upon…ex. Lot and his daughters and Gen. 5:4 states Adam fathered sons and daughters..so well it only Adam, so apparently those brothers and sisters also became lovers/ husbands and wives.and fathered children…how else to explain it..)
    D. The Centurion and his boy lover (in the NT)

    I don’t know if these relationships were deemed Holy; but they existed and perhaps other than for Ham and Noah; there was no punishment or great cry against it…in all cases except the one fore mentioned the scriptures celebrate these relationships…and what came out of them…they speak to the power of God and his love for all people!

  51. Ok GCMW Family, my mouth is wide open to MAW’s last response and the twisting of scripture…total deception!
    MAW I’m praying that the scales truly fall from your eyes and the dullness from your ears and that you will stop worshipping the creature rather than the Creator who is blessed forever. Umm umm umm! Help today Lord!

  52. Yes, thought you would come with something new. All of these are propogated by the homosexual or homsexual afirming people. I am yet to hear someone who thinks homosexuality is wrong interpret these scriptures like this.

    As far as Noah and Ham, this is what Noah said in reference to the situation you are talking about.

    Gen 9:24 So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. 25 Then he said:
    “ Cursed be Canaan;
    A servant of servants
    He shall be to his brethren.”

    If what you say is the case Ham was cursed because of it.

    This homosexual agenda, is simply of the antichrist. I know of no sin that is so blatent but yet so blinding.

    What we have going on is this interfaith rubbish along with LGBT movement, sure signs of the evil that is upon and it will get much worse.

    M.A.W, I just ask for you to reconsider your stance, it is evil. I dont say that out of hate but love. You are WRONG, my brother and this will not lead to eternal life.

    LORD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL!

  53. David and Jonathan homosexual? Are you serious? My Bible alludes that King David was Very fond of the fairer sex. Solomon even more……

    Min. Antwoine Williams said:

    To Jackson:

    I don’t want to be a woman, I am a Gay Black Male..with some feminine qualities of which I am proud of.

    Pride comes before the fall. You have been warned no effeminate man will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

  54. :::coming out of lurking mode again:::

    @Antoine Williams, and anyone else who would like to answer:

    Let’s assume what you are saying is true about David and Jonathan, David and the Eunuch, ect…

    Do you believe simply being mentioned, alluded to, talked about, focused on, ect…in the Bible means it is sanctioned by God?

    To be even more specific, what would make you think a supposed relationship between David and Jonathan was blessed encouraged and/or sanctioned by God?

    The nature of your comments leaves the impression that, for example, because the Bible talks about Judas it means what he did was perfectly fine. In short, God’s Word says quite plainly that homosexuality is not ordained by God. Even “IF” David broke this law, it wouldn’t compromise God’s commandment on the matter. It would just be another thing he ignored God’s mandate about, along with committing adultery with Bathsheba and other transgressions.

    -bliss

  55. Excellent point Bliss why would God clearly point out King David’s sexual sin (adultery) but allow a gay relationship with Jonathan when He said both were wrong?

  56. All those scriptures have been abused by the homosexual “christian” movement.

    No where in scripture supports what MAW has said, but actually I wanted to know if there is any historic fact of this being supported on a whole in Judaism and not just some scriptures that have been twisted to suit the cause.

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