Yahoo reports Christian "music star" now lesbian

[UPDATED BELOW]

These Christian star-comes-out-of-the-closet stories seem to follow a familiar trajectory. We’ve seen it with Ray Boltz and Tonex. In fact I wrote in November 2008, “people get ready, Boltz’s move will only embolden others. Its just a matter of time.”

And here we are again with another singer named Jennifer Knapp. [Yahoo story] [Christianity Today]

To be perfectly honest, Id never heard of nor listened to any of this woman’s music, so I dont get the “star” accolades. She was nomintated for four grammys, but so have many other music artists.

A rising star on the Christian music scene is returning to the public eye with a new identity after a mysterious seven-year absence spent mostly on the other side of the world.

Jennifer Knapp is not only coming out with a new album, she is also “coming out,” a term the Grammy-nominated singer/songwriter considers “very bizarre” as she nervously relaunches her career.

The 36-year-old Kansas native, who dated men during her college days, is braced for a backlash from religious fans who faithfully shot down whispered rumors about her sexuality over the years. On the other hand, she said in a recent interview with Reuters, “I’m definitely getting a lot more friendly winks from the girls (at her concerts) than I have in the past!”

Knapp’s story is familiar almost to a fault. Its one of confusion that most, if not all who have struggled with sexual expression and identity have experienced. The media quickly attempts to paint it as a conflict between the church and acceptance of homosexuals. But the source of the conflict is God’s law. Even if every church in America had full “acceptance” of homosexuals, it wouldn’t change God’s law.

In the Christianity Today interview, Knapp seemed reticent as to whether she would link up and be another spokesperson for the gay movement. Perhaps not. But mark my words, it wont be long before the gay christian movement sinks its fangs into her neck.

While Knapp pretended not to be all that concerned with the biblical aspects of her sin, she nonetheless quickly threw out the worn out shellfish arguement.  That one is in the same category and the Adam and Steve cliche.

“The Bible has literally saved my life. I find myself between a rock and a hard place—between the conservative evangelical who uses what most people refer to as the “clobber verses” to refer to this loving relationship as an abomination, while they’re eating shellfish and wearing clothes of five different fabrics, and various other Scriptures we could argue about. I’m not capable of getting into the theological argument as to whether or not we should or shouldn’t allow homosexuals within our church. There’s a spirit that overrides that for me, and what I’ve been gravitating to in Christ and why I became a Christian in the first place.”

Although the spotlight is focused on Knapp’s sexuality, it exposes another serious flaw in the way the contemporary American church has positioned itself.  This is why the church should begin reevaluating its support for the cult of celebrity in the music industry. The Stellars, Doves and all other award shows should be dismantled. Let’s see whose heart is to serve the Lord and who’s in it for the lights of fame. More and more, we are seeing that far too many of these people are being led by feelings, flesh and fan adulation.

UPDATE 04.16.10 12:49

CNN writer Lisa France has posted a well written story on Knapp and briefly looks at the wider issue of homosexuality in the church quoting both Lexi and myself as well the author of the Christianity Today peice who originally broke the story. Read the full article.

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109 thoughts on “Yahoo reports Christian "music star" now lesbian

  1. I totally agree. Why do we need to have so called “christian” award shows in the first place…I’ll tell ya, because flesh loves the applause of man…
    I’ve never heard of her as well, so I believe this is just another example that the gifts and calling of God is without repentance. I only pray that somewhere down in that heart of hers that’s been given over to a reprobate mind, truth would utterly prevail and she would repent and “come out” from such an abominable lifestyle.

  2. She performed at the lilith fair which was of course dripping with lesbianism.

    If faithful GCMWatch readers remember a certain Derek Walsh Webb of Caedmon’s Call came out several months ago says the Church needs to lay off homosexuals (calling out sinful destructive behavior) and focus on just giving to the poor. Webb reminds me of Jay Bakker.

    Well that being said Webb is collaborating on her new album that is going to be released some time soon. No wonder he is fellow shipping with darkness for the sake of a dollar.

    Ephesians 5:11-12

    11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;

    12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.

  3. These are the last days. Christ is soon to return and He’s coming back for a church without spot or wrinkle.

    When the saints become ‘tolerant’ of this type of behavior, we are just as guilty. We need to continue to love our brothers and sisters who fall victim to the tricks of the enemy and pray their deliverance from this homosexual spirit.

  4. RDM, I dont think these people are falling for the tricks of the devil they are simply following their own lusts, lusts that produce death in the end. Not that the devil doesnt tempt but it is still man that willfully sins.

    She needs to be treated as a reprobate, turned out of the Church so the devil can buffet her and hopefully come to the saving knowledge of Christ.

  5. She still claims to be a Christian, wouldnt you know after being in a same sex relationship for eight years. This is where the deception comes in, she was selling CD’s as a Christian and all along she was sinner. She is lying on the holy spirit, Christ and the Father and deceived the people. As far what she is saying, she has never sang for Christ!!!

  6. My my my my…the evil is just increasing isn’t it!! I too hadn’t heard of her as this is not my type of Gospel music but sad nonetheless..

    What can be said…I can only agree that these are the last days…

  7. Friends,

    First I’d like to say to Paul, hows the baby and the wife, I hope blessed and wonderful and why not w/a husband and father, who follows the Lord, as you do, and thats the love I have for you, not flattery my friend (smile). Know I truly believe as the Apostle John would say, “If they were truly w/us they would’ve never left us.” People who so quickly fall into these type of sins, we must ask whether or not they were ever truly saved/delivered. It reminds of the Lord saying, “Depart from me, you worker of inquitiy, I never knew you.” And these same people, supposedely sang, healed, and prophesied in the Lord’s name, yet he tells them “I never knew you.”

    I’m not saying those of who are committed to the Lord do not sin and error of course not, “A goodman falls seven times, but he gets back up”, but “A double minded man, is unstable in all his ways, and think not he get anything from the Lord.”

  8. All you can do is yawn and say….whose next? Last days means
    just that…last days. Christians should be “shocked proof” as to what is happening and will be happening before our very eyes by
    both those who profess Christ and by the world.
    Love the sinner but hate their sin and if you can, drag them out as if they were in a fire and if they rebuke you…be rebuked and
    go on to the next near fatality.
    Our job of witnessing is to go in the power of the Holy Spirit andleave the results to God. Keep no scorecard and do not be surprised if you are scorned for your efforts. You are a reminder of their sin and hypocrisy.

  9. Thanks Toney, To God be the glory!! My wife and daughter are absolutley wonderful. Please pray for me that I grow by God grace be the husband and father He wants me to be. Thanks again.

    There is a danger in claminig Christ when you are not one of His? If you claim to be a Christian then there should be fruit and if you behave like this lady, is there anymore sacrifice for her sins? What else can Christ possibly do for someone who flat out knows but rejects sound teaching and still claims to have faith in Christ? this is dangerous ground, she is treading on.

    Heb 10:26 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

  10. “she was selling CD’s as a Christian and all along she was sinner.”

    I’d like to think is is humour but I fear that it’s not. Not trying to justify Knapp or anything but this kind of statement just makes me weep.

  11. thesauros, what in particular is wrong with the statement that it would make you weep. Be specific.

  12. You know, I just recently was called “holier than thou” because I challenged a brother in the body that thinks it’s OK for a “christian singer” to “cross-over” and sing secular music…and get this…he used The Book of Hosea where God tells Hosea to go marry a whore as “justification” that a christian can sing such music because it can be God’s way of showing sinners how much He loves them. So I guess the blood that Jesus shed for us on calvarly is no longer “enough” to show how much God so loved the world.

    I just shook my head in dismay and unbelief of this brother’s twisting and “understanding” of God’s word, and this is “supposed” to be a minister! Sometimes, it’s so much easier to witness to a person dead in their sins and never heard the gospel rather than “religious” folks that have eyes to see, yet they don’t see. Guess that’s why our Lord said He only came to save sick folks, not those that “think” they don’t need a physician.

    So @Lafe, I concur, as you stated: “Love the sinner but hate their sin and if you can, drag them out as if they were in a fire and if they rebuke you…be rebuked and go on to the next near fatality.”

  13. thesauros

    1 John 3:5-8
    5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
    7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

    Is this saying believers never sin, no, notice the word practice. So, if sin is fine and dandy with you and its a lifestyle the scriptures tell us that you do not know Christ.

  14. Lafe, I have to agree with you regarding your comment about believers being “shock-proofed”. In spite of that I still become disheartened when I hear about things like this.
    The reason why is because when Christians who are are young in the faith and spiritually immature hear and see things like this, they may become disillusioned about what it truly means to belong to Christ.
    The more they see people who profess Christ come out of their closets and say that there’s nothing inherently wrong with being gay, the more likely they’ll hold God’s Word in low regard: “Well, the Bible does say that homosexuality is a sin, but maybe that’s not really meant for us today”, or, “maybe it’s not really a sin after all, perhaps we’ve just been reading the Bible wrong all this time”, or, “well people are born gay, soooo….”
    I’ve heard this said before and so have all of you.
    Because these believers are weak, biblically ignorant and have no discernment, they don’t adhere to a standard to measure it all by.
    So now you have Christians, especially those in this upcoming generation, who walk around believing that you can live your life however you want, no matter how starkly contrary it is to God’s Word.
    And as a result of these “Christians” that we’re reading about who are living their life in opposition to the standard that God has called His Church to, the next generation of Christians will have very few examples of what it means to be truly regenerated and turned from a willfully sinful lifestyle – at least from those who are in the public eye.
    Shouldn’t that be disheartening?
    I think it’s bad enough that the world is competing for the next generation’s devotion – we don’t need psuedo-believers in the Church confusing them by their lifestyles.

    So yeah, the rest of us believers should be “shock-proofed” by now, but no less saddened by the effects of it all.

  15. Pastor,

    This is a truly “thought” provoking article, after gleaming over it again, I thought of how many christian celebrity, have adopted the “American Idol” theme and also, whose the “best choir.” Infusing the body w/the spirit of “competivness” which we know leads to a whole bunch of other things. To many times the body of Christ goes to world, instead of living the life we were called to live “be salt” and “be a light” in the world, so that those living in darkness, would come to the light, and those straddling the fence, would put off there “double mindedness, but kind of hard to be those things when your submitting to the world. Reminds of the scripture in the bk of Rev., “Come out from among them, my people, or you will partake of the wrath to come.” Pastor once again, “illuminating” article.

  16. I just want to add something else. For some reason, this story about Jennifer Knapp has really taken hold of me.

    Bob Stith, who’s a representative of the Southern Baptists’ Task Force on Ministry to Homosexuals said this in a recent article:

    “What I would want to say to Jennifer and others who may be facing her dilemma in the Christian church is that God really does have a sexual standard,” Stith said. “It is based on His creative intent which is made clear in both the Old and New Testament. He did not put forth this standard to enslave us but rather to free us. When God prohibits something He always has something better for us. Unfortunately that concept is often lost in both the church and the world today. All of us are inclined to trust our own instincts and desires more than the revealed will of God. Whatever our desires may be and however right and/or powerful they may seem, God’s desires for us must always take precedence. That may not bring immediate gratification but both for us and the Kingdom eternal the ultimate pay-off will be far greater.”
    (http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/BPnews.asp?ID=32720)

    What I think is especially important here is what he says about trusting our own instincts & desires more than God’s revealed will.
    I think oftentimes our own logic and desires seem so rational and sensible that to deny them, even in submission to God’s revealed will, is unnatural. Thus the “this is who I am” proclamation reigns supreme when it comes to accepting one’s “same gender-loving” orientation.
    I believe many of us need to accept the fact that our desires are naturally in opposition to God’s will. Of course we all know the scriptures which speak of the flesh, and how nothing good is in it and how the flesh is at constant war with the Spirit [of God]. But I wonder if people (myself included) truly understand that the flesh – all of it – is in direct opposition to God’s law at all times, including those things in which the world says are natural, healthy and right.

    Things that don’t make sense to us in the natural realm makes perfect sense to God, if I can apply that term to Him. We need to trust Him and know that everything that He instructs us to do is for our benefit, both temporal and eternal.
    This is why I love Psalms 19: 7 – 14.

  17. Ange,

    I’m in agreement w/you about the “flesh”, but as you said, in an earlier comment concerning this topic, we have to give an understanding to the novice christian and the unbeliever. I was reminded of verses of scripture concerning the flesh as well. The bk of Job, says, “I know that my redeemer lives, and in this (flesh) I will see God” and also we know what our brother Paul said, “Make your bodies, a living sacrifice unto God.” Augustine, had such an issue w/the flesh, because of his past indulges, that he felt the only thing it was good for was procreation, and that wasn’t even supposed to be enjoyed. And yes lets not forget the Agnostics, who also had such an issue w/the flesh that they felt the Savior of the world, was a phathom of some sort. So we must remember though this flesh is an enemy of God, we are to bring it under the subjection of the Spirit of God.

  18. Wow, this truly shocks me. Ive consistently listened to Jennifer Knapp’s music on radio stations. Ray, Tonex, Derrick, and now Jennifer. I find it amazing how the deceitfulness of our hearts in that we can hold to something true then completely go against it. But who knows if they ever truly believed all of Gods Word? If the sacrifice of Christ and His resurrection was seen in their hearts, in their lives? It makes me think of the record labels, the Christian ones… And that do they really hold the artist accountable? So its not hypocrisy on their part they are actually putting forth? It makes me seek to guard myself even more. Trust in God and the truthfulness of His Word. And hold to it with every ounce of strength He is giving me.

  19. Marcc, its these kinds of instances that should evoke self evaluation. Am I truly a disciple of Christ? Am I committed to Him? Am I grounded in his word? We had better check ourselves so that when satan comes knocking with his bag of goodies we are not enticed away because we have a superficial relationship with Christ. 2 Cor 13:5 Thanks for those comments.

  20. Every morning that God allows us to wake up, we are to “choose this day “who” we are going to serve.” This woman chose to serve satan over 8 years ago when she attempted to become “one” with the “same sex.” She may be thinking that she’s “keeping her girlfriend out of the limelight” but there is a LIGHT that’s seeing all the darkness she’s been living in. I only pray that she eventually allows the True Light to shine in her darkened deceived heart.

    As saints, we must continue to watch, pray, preach and teach the TRUTH of God’s word…yes in love; BUT we don’t compromise that TRUTH just to “receive” love!

  21. The arrogance you show in response to this event is quite apparent. I’m not sure how long you’ve been hooked into the Christian music scene but Knapp was indeed it’s darling and a star to a multitude of Christians–young and old in the time before her break. I guarantee you that you’ve sung one of her songs during your church’s praise time. Either way, you not hearing of her doesn’t negate her “rising star” status–but thanks for cluing the rest of us in on your self-perception.

    The comment at the beginning of your post was the most provocative to me: “In fact I wrote in November 2008, ‘people get ready, Boltz’s move will only embolden others. Its just a matter of time.'” Besides, again, assuring us of your self-perceived authority that comment does much to show that you are following the same path and mentality of which the church should be ashamed. Which mentality? The one that says that we know there are gay people among us [Christians] yet, it’s an unspoken rule that we don’t talk about it.

    I mean, really? That’s your preference? To have people remain closet inside evangelical Christianity. Why shouldn’t those encouraged by Boltz’s move come out and declare who they are authentically? Why do you feel the need to warn others that it’s just a matter of time?

    Your comments evidence the double standard by the church when it comes to this demographic of people. Don’t Ask. Don’t Tell. is not just a military mantra–it is alive and well and accepted within the church. It’s also contrary to what the church is built for–ministering to others. It seems if your faith was aligned against your prejudice that you would want people to come out so you could “minister” to them or even send them to ministries that could “help” them. Instead, look the other direction–deny the existence of a very messy subject. How is it living in that black and white, carefully crafted bubble?

  22. “The one that says that we know there are gay people among us [Christians] yet, it’s an unspoken rule that we don’t talk about it.”

    Youre probably new to this blog. Take some time and read before you continue making assumptions. And check the comment policy also.

  23. Apryl’s comment is indicative of the new wave that’s making its tides throughout the Church, and frankly I’ve grown tired of the these comments laced with postmodernism.

    She wrote, “Why shouldn’t those encouraged by Boltz’s move come out and declare who they are authentically?”
    This type of comment is exactly why I wrote what I did in my last message. One’s supposed “authenticity” is their freedom, not God’s liberating truth. Authenticity is the god, not the LORD. Tolerance is worshipped, not the LORD. Unity is sought after, not God’s Word.
    And this is exactly where the next generation is headed.

    I don’t take Apryl’s comment with any degree of seriousness, for the simple fact that she’s judging this situation with a mindset that exalts itself above the Word of God.
    But I suppose she feels that she said something worthwhile.

  24. Angela…doesn’t the church advocate bringing things out of the darkness and into the light? Doesn’t it advocate truthfulness and spurn deceit. Exactly. So, that’s what I’m referring to as authenticity. Whether someone in church comes out and says “I’m struggling with homosexuality” or “I’m a homosexual” they are, at least, being honest rather than pretending to be something they are not. Now, what they do after that will define, by most Christians standards, whether they have still have admission into the Christian circle. I won’t dispute your argument about “authenticity” as a gay person as right or wrong. My point was about the Christian community preferring for these people to stay in the closet—and suffer there, either way.

    It’s nice how you judged my mindset though. Do you know any gay people (whether struggling or accepting) that have been in the church?

  25. It’s funny how people like to twist the bible to fit them. God is a period God no commas. God will always love the person but not the sin. The true question is do you love God if you do why do you disappoint him time and time again.

    Once we surrender all to God we will be able to full fill our true destiny in Christ.

    For those struggling with homosexuality always remember nothing is too hard for Christ. Be sincere with your prayer to him and move obstacles that will keep you in bondage.

    Remember the devil if he can keep you in bondage will keep you ineffective to do God’s work.

    God Bless

  26. one last thing..

    Always remember God can get a rock to praise him. With that being said.

    God can bless others through your gifts and talent without blessing you.

    So for Ms. Knapp… To whom much is given much is required… If you are not trying to change you will have to answer to God not man.

  27. Apryl, please dont go there. You are arguing a moot issue. The bible calls sin what it is regardless if you come out of the closet or stay in it. Sin is dirty, nasty, dangerous, debilitating, deadly and damning whether you live it openly or in secret. In case you didnt know it, homosexuality is sin.

    It has nothing to do with what the church wants people to do. Since you attach such a virtue to “honesty” in declaring one’s sexual perversion, I would assume you want all the closet pedophiles to come out and live openly too huh? I mean after all, using your logic, being “honest” about it is what the endgame is all about.

  28. When we begin to exalt anyone’s gift, talent and lifestyle as a “star” over the “Bright and Morning Star”, that’s perfect breeding ground for deception to take root.
    The issue is not how “well known” this singer is, or if the church at large has sang any of her songs, the issue is she’s “calling” herself a “christian” while living a lifestyle that’s in direct opposition to God’s Truth…thus bringing shame to the Lord of Glory’s great name!

    I personally pray that those living in darkness “within” the church WOULD come out, so we can effectively pray for them, and should they not want to confess and repent, turn their flesh over to satan (since he’s controlling it anyway) so that their souls might be saved as Paul says in Corinthians).
    The bible says we are not even supposed to eat with such folks that claim to be christians, yet living a lie (and that pertains to ALL that are daily “practicing” and “living” in ANY sin yet professing to be a brother or sister in Christ!)

  29. gcmwatch…seriously? Did you just compare homosexuality to pedophilia? When you reduce your dialogue to that kind of ignorant rhetoric–there’s really nothing more to say.

    All of you are not listening to my message here. I’m not debating the SIN ISSUE. I am asking why the church would rather people suffer in silence than say out loud “I’m struggling with this” or “I am this.”

    Honestly, this site reads as prejudicial. I know what the Bible says. So, why wouldn’t you want someone to be REAL and say “I’m struggling with this–help me.” Rather than stay silent.

    Why would your rather someone stay closeted rather than coming out and saying “I’m gay” so that you could deal with that within the church community? Being HONEST. Those are my questions. I’m not debating the sin nature or the sin issue.

  30. No I didnt compare it, it is.
    Homosexuality HAS NOT evolved beyond perversion. Not in the least bit. Perversion is an equal opportunity employer and those who engage are all in the same boat.

    Now to address (once again) your moot complaint about the church.
    And lets refocus shall we?

    Did Knapp say she was struggling with lesbianism and wanted the church to help her? NOPE.

    We are having this discussion because she declared she is a lesbian AND still a Christian. Read the interviews again and tell me where she is “coming out” because she wants help.

    So please dont talk about real until you want to get real about the issue before us.

    When someone wants help they dont go doing interviews with a homosexual magazine or yoking up to do a CD with another off-kilter “Christian music artist”. In fact, they dont have to declare anything. Cry out to God for help and THE BIBLE says he will answer and he will save them. That’s a good place to start therefore there’s no need for you come out of the closet honesty stuff.

    Finally, nobody that I know on this site is prejudicial, we just refuse to justify things that God’s Word gives no justification to. So, lets steer clear of all that and just argue your point.

  31. Apryl,

    When you wrote about the Church advocating that we bring things out of the darkness and into the light, I’m going to assume that you probably don’t know that this is in reference to a verse in Scripture. If you did, I think you would have stated that.
    The following is Scripture that you’re actually paraphrasing, found in the book of 1 Peter, 2:9:

    “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.”

    God has called sinners out of darkness where we did not know Him, and into His light, where we now know Him. He has brought us out of the darkness where we were once unredeemed, and into His light where we are now redeemed.
    Coming out of the darkness and into the light isn’t a decree by the Church to stop living a lie by denying one’s authenticity; it’s a verse from Scripture which assures believers that God has brought us out from the darkness of a lie and into His light of truth.
    That’s what it means in context – it has nothing to do with authenticity.

    In regards to “Christian circles”, Jennifer and those who relate to her situation need not be concerned about that. Their concern should be whether they’re going to live a willfully, sinful lifestyle which would be in direct opposition to the Word. As I wrote earlier, our flesh is in constant & blatant opposition to God, and everyone who professes Christ needs to make it up in their minds that not only will their minds be conformed to the Word of God, but their lifestyles also. If this means denying the flesh, then so be it. It’s called sacrifice. Authenticity means nothing to God when He’s purchased someone with a price. We are to deny the sinful deeds of the flesh: “Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation–but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it.” That verse is from the book of Romans, chapter 8.
    Everyone who is born again is indebted to Christ, and because of that we have an obligation to Him. Within this obligation is an adherence to truth, which is obedience to His Word.
    Those with a mindset that’s not grounded in Scripture will not understand nor accept this.

    As far as Jennifer being honest, I believe that Jennifer came out of her closet, not because she wanted to publicly anounce that she’s struggling with homosexuality, but that she wants to continue in her lifestyle, publicly, without apology. If this isn’t the case, then why the ongoing lesbian relatinship?

    To my knowledge, I know of no one who is saved who struggles with homosexual desires. Of course there are brothers & sisters in Christ who do struggle with it, just as there are former alcoholics who struggle, former drug addicts who struggles and former porn addicts who struggle to eep away rfom the websites. We’re all sinners in the Body of Christ. What distinguishes the one who has the desires and the one who gives into their desires is both their obeidence.

  32. I didn’t know this site existed. I think you are doing a a great service for, not only the Christian community, but the world. We have the great commission to go ye therefore and teach all nations. If we do no warn the wicked, in the spirit of love of course, their blood will be required at our hands.

  33. I was wondering if I could get a(one-time) private dialogue going with the author of this site. I seek [spiritual] insight on Tyler Perry. I understand that you believe he is part of the homesexual agenda for inclusion within the church. Why doesn’t everyone see this? Are you sure he’s gay?

    Is it possible that this country (female fanbase) is under some sort of spell/stronghold where this man is concerned? Do you believe he understands what he is doing? Are his actions accidental or intentional?

    I ask these question because I am a staunch conservative Christian woman, however I have had problems breaking free from him. [Without saying too much]when I first saw him on video tapes in the 90s, I believed, with all my heart,he was gay. I even refused to watch his plays. But someone in my church gave me a Christian viedo to watch; what I didn’t know is that one of his plays was also at the end of that tape. I allowed myself to watch it. BAD CHOICE! I don’t even know when it happened, but my views of him changed. I never stopped preaching and believing that homosexuality is an abomination. However, for the next 2 or 3 years I was hooked on Tyler Perry!

    In the spiraling vortex, there have been several non-sexual contacts between he (Tyler) and myself. He was very kind to me which caused me to be drawn-in even more, and I found myself feeling more and more entrapped…finally I just had to disappear!

    Now that I’ve distanced myself from the world “Tyler Perry”, I feel truly delivered. I have a pretty good idea of what happened to me. However, if you can shed more light, please explain it to me!!!

    This is the first, and only, time I’ve ever written something like this. Please don’t publish it.

  34. Godlysoldier said:

    “When we begin to exalt anyone’s gift, talent and lifestyle as a “star” over the “Bright and Morning Star”, that’s perfect breeding ground for deception to take root.”

    I agree with this statement.

    I’m one who immediately wants to solve a problem when it is presented, to find the root of the cause and then uproot it.

    My disappointment about the news of Jennifer Knapp is not based on a feeling of betrayal or disgust but the feeling of utter helplessness in my own human strength to effect her repentance and restoration to a Christ-honoring way of holy living.

    With that said, I am completely confident in the power of prayer to accomplish much as James, the half-brother and servant of the Lord Jesus Christ, tells us in chapter 5 of his letter. My disappointment sends me to my knees in the pursuit of God’s face on behalf of Jennifer. Perhaps God will uproot the cause of her sinful behavior, giving her the true assurance of salvation.

    If my disappointment does not effect a prayerful reaction on her behalf before God’s throne of grace, then any comment I might make publicly or privately becomes nothing more than empty piety and self-righteous record keeping.

    I can only pray for her salvation because I’m not convinced that Jennifer was ever truly saved.

    True salvation and repentance are two sides of the same coin. There is a teaching afoot in many Christian circles which would lead one to believe that a mere mental-acquiesence to the idea of Christ as the Son of God who died, was buried and rose again is enough to secure the assurance of one’s salvation. The faith that brings the free gift of salvation is the same faith that engenders the free gift of repentance.

    In other words, repentance and salvation are both a supernatural work of God. I cannot repent in my own power. I cannot enter the kingdom of God on my own reserves. I depend completely on the blood of Jesus Christ for my justification and completely on the power of the Holy Spirit to effect a repentant way of life.

    Some, perhaps many, learn to speak “Christianese” in order to find acceptance in the Christian crowd or to gain the trust of an attractive Christian man or woman for the sake of relationship. “Christianese” has deceived many. It should not come as a surprise that tares are just as prevalent in the Christian music industry as they are in the general church population.

    I’m thankful for doctrinal watchdogs who are not afraid to monitor developments in popular culture in order to protect God’s true flock from the deception of those who have become fluent in “Christianese.”

  35. I cannot understand why you want to be so judgemental of gay people. Everyone sins. Everyone deserves Jesus’ love no matter the sin. It is God’s place to judge those who sin. NOT yours. We do live in a free country and people should be free to love who they choose to. Just like someone can be born deaf, blind, etc., they can be born gay. It doesn’t make them a bad person and it doesn’t make God love them any less. Leave them alone and let them live with God’s love AND yours. God bless everyone!!! No wonder some people stray from God when they are treated so wrongly by so-called “Christians” which is not what I would call the people running this site.

  36. HOMOSEXUALITY IS SIN”DARKNESS” WHAT GOD OR JESUS ARE THEY SINGING TO? THE DEVIL HAS A WAY TO TELL AND SHOW PEOPLE THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS OK..JUST A WAY OF LIFE…THE DEVIL IS A LIAR!
    WHAT BIBLE ARE THEY READING? YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO APPLY THE WORD TO YOUR LIFE. THERE IS A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT TO MAN..BUT THE END IS DEATH.CHRISTIAN MUSIC ARTIST YOU NEED TO REPENT AND LET JESUS SET YOU FREE….GOD MADE ADAM AND EVE…NOT ADAM AND STEVE!

    LADYTRICIA

  37. Ladytricia you hit it! “Christian music artist” IS NOT synonymous with salvation.

    That’s the real issue. They need to quit all this singing and cd making and get saved!

  38. They were already saved when they accepted Jesus into their life. Jesus loves them sin and all. You need to quit all this judging and get saved!

  39. gcmwatch, since you’re emphasizing the acts one must do to get saved, it’s important to remember that not practicing homosexuality is just one aspect — and one that doesn’t apply to heterosexuals who already have no attraction for the same sex.

    In this country, I look around and am constantly reminded of the conversation between the young, rich ruler and Jesus:

    Mark 10:17 & 21-22 —

    “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

    “Jesus looked at him and loved him. ‘One thing you lack,’ He said. ‘Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’ At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.”

    I know. That verse isn’t meant to be taken by everyone literally, right? It’s just an illustration of why we need grace.

    We can all breathe a sigh of relief, for as Americans we have great wealth compared to the rest of the world, and no desire to part with the least of it.

  40. Kathy said:

    I cannot understand why you want to be so judgemental of gay people. Everyone sins. Everyone deserves Jesus’ love no matter the sin. It is God’s place to judge those who sin. NOT yours. We do live in a free country and people should be free to love who they choose to. Just like someone can be born deaf, blind, etc., they can be born gay. It doesn’t make them a bad person and it doesn’t make God love them any less. Leave them alone and let them live with God’s love AND yours. God bless everyone!!! No wonder some people stray from God when they are treated so wrongly by so-called “Christians” which is not what I would call the people running this site.

    What Bible are you reading?

    People are born gay now? What? According to what scientific research?

    http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html

    Yes for a time you can chase after your own lusts living as you want but as Paul wrote,
    1 Corinthians 6:8-10

    8But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!

    9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

    People stray from God because they would rather live a unrepentant lifestyle choice (like homosexuality, drunkenness, stealing ect) that turn away from their sin (repent) and serve the Master Jesus Christ.

  41. Kathy, youve already played your “quit judging” card. Frankly its boring. Find something —of substance and related to the post content— else to talk about or find somewhere else to talk.

    If youre confused about what all that means, read the comment policy.

  42. Kathy,

    Yes everyone has sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God, and yes Jesus loves everyone regardless of what they’ve done, thats why the Word says, “You love me, because I first loved you” meaning he wants us more, than we want him. And Kathy please remember, what Jesus said, when being confronted by Pilate, about where he was from, the Lord replied, “I came into the world to bear witness to the truth, everyone who loves the truth, listens to me” and yes, “love rejoices in the truth.” Sin can be judged, and no one is born homosexual, that is the lie of Satan, the world, and our own wayward hearts. You speak of love; love is the epitome of truth, you can’t have one without the other.

    Open up your heart and ask yourself, how can anyone be born homosexual, when God made man and woman, and he makes no mistakes, “for he is not a man, that he should lie, nor that he should repent.” Man and woman compliment one another, thats why she is called a “help meet.” The Word of God is riddled in both OT/NT about this sin, and how it separates from God, and from others. If you are truly seeking love, then open up your heart to the truth, stop seeing what you want to see, and see what you need to see, and only the true love of Christ, can help you do that. Do not lean upon your own understanding, nor trust in your own heart, but trust and have faith in him. “Whomever the Son sets free, is free indeed”, if anyone who walks in the darkness of this sin or any other sin, come and taste and see if the Lord is good, sweeter than honey my friends. The Man of God whom God has used to create this blog, can give clear testimony of that.

    “Seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be open, ask and you shall receive, for everyone who seeks, finds, and everyone who ask shall receive, and everyone who knocks, the door shall be opened.” Do this Kathy, and you shall know what true “LOVE” is, the opening to the “TRUTH” put aside your concept of love, and put on his, and like the Apostle Paul, the scales shall be removed from your eyes, receive the Holy Spirit and you shall be given a “NEW” heart. Sorry Pastor, if I strayed of topic, got alittle caught up.

  43. You do not know some of the gay people I have known. They have the brain of the opposite sex I believe and are in the wrong body. If no one is born homosexual, then no one is born blind or deaf or with Down’s Syndrome either. True love is loving someone regardless of how you feel about them. If you feel someone is wrong, you are still commanded to love them. Denying them rights is not doing that.

    GCMW: Once again, there you go with the way off topic unsubstantiated accusations and statements. And hypocritical to boot. Please cite where anyone here has said to deny another their “rights”. While youre at it, cite the research proving gay people “have the brain of the opposite sex”. If you cant, dont post again until you cease with all the thunderstorm comments.

  44. Kathy,

    Love “COVERS” a multitude of sins, not looks over them, for if God looked over the sins of Adam and Eve, then he would not have cast them out of the garden. If God looked over our sins, then Christ would not have had to come, and go through what he went through, leading to the cross. If God looked over our sins, then he would not have said, and I quote, “WHOMSOEVER BELIEVETH on him shall not PERISH but have EVERLASTING life.” And yes, when speaking to his prophet Moses, he said, to him, “Who made the blind and the deaf, was it not I”, where not talking about people being born w/an “affliction”, were talking about a learned and accepted “behavior”, that yes has come upon some, because of some horrible “life” experience, but is an “accepted” behavior nonetheless.

    So in saying, he made man and made wowan for man, Kathy if you believe God is perfect, then how can you subscribe to such error in your thinking, are you a true believer in Jesus Christ, have you studied his word, is the Holy Spirit truly dwelling in you?
    And I say this not mockingly, but you are speaking of what the Apostle Paul, warned about, “another Jesus” I appeal to you or you will be accursed, and thats not me speaking, but the Word of God. This is not about somebody being good, or nice, this is about sin, and believe me, there are many people in hell right now, that were good and nice people. But the word says, “harden not your hearts, when I knock upon it”, but then theres another word, “Satan has blinded them to the truth.”

    You are not speaking of “LOVE” in its purest from which is Christ, your speaking of it, according to your own understanding, which is based upon feelings and emotions, “TRUE” love is not based upon feelings or emotions, but is a way of “LIFE” for the true believer. We love those who are caught in this sin, and any other sin for that matter, but we will not, look over there sin, and then say we “LOVE” them. For once again “LOVE” rejoices in the “TRUTH” not denial, of who and what you should be.

  45. We’re obsessing over the wrong sin. Do you know why God destroyed Sodom? It wasn’t about homosexuality. It was over things that should frighten the majority of Christian Americans. In Ezekiel 16:49-50 God declares —

    “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and the needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me.” [Ezekiel 16:49-50]

    We need to stop obsessing over the sins of a small minority and start speaking out about our own deadly habits.

    GCMW: Please explain the bolded phrase and then we’re going to move on because we have already discussed multiple times before. This is just so you can get it out your system and we dont become bogged down on something we all know the answer to.

  46. Does anybody truly study God’s word for themselves if not then chew on this in plain english and maybe this will clarify some erroneous thinking

    Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused.
    22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools.
    23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
    24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies.
    25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
    26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.
    27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

    Romans 1:21-27 (NLT)

  47. VirginaJeff,

    I’m in agreement w/you that we need to do as the Lord prescribed, “first remove the plank from your eye, and then, you can see clearly enough, to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” Once again your right, we don’t need to get caught up in one particular sin, when one can be just as deadly as the other. But however God said in Ezekiel, “it was your haughty and detestable things you did before me” and we know most of the time, that has referenced and referred to “sexual” sins. And as far as “obsessing”, everyone has a calling in life, if we accept the call God has given us, some to be a king, some a prophet, some a pastor, some to speak and focus on one thing, and someone else another. The creator of this blog has such a calling, he received a mighty deliverance, and God has called him to expose, identify and call out those walking in this particular darkness, that they like him, may receive the same, if they desire.

    This is his God given assignment, yours and mine, maybe different, but lets try to understand and support him on his.
    Pastor, I know you don’t need me to defend you, but its something I felt I needed to say.

  48. Virgina, perhaps your ignorantly mistaken, or worse, purposefully negligent regarding this scripture in Ezekiel that you speak of.
    Yes, the LORD did utterly destroy Sodom & Gomorrah because of their numerous sins, which included arrogance and self-indulgence. Yet He also destroyed it for the blatant, perverse immorality – homosexuality – that was rampant throughout it. Read 2 Peter 6 – 18: Lot was oppressed by the sensual conduct of lawless men – his soul was tormented daily by their deeds.
    In Jude 6 – 7, we’re told that Sodom and Gomorrah were judged because of their gross immorality and their chasing after strange flesh. And read Genesis 19 in context – that may help you.
    Also, Sodom and Gomorrah are frequently referenced throughout Scripture as examples of total corruption, ranging from haughtiness to sexual perversion – which includes homosexuality. (Deuteronomy 29:23, Jeremiah 49:18, Amos 4:11 and others.)
    So yes, those cities were guilty of many abominations, and some of those charges against them were laid out in Ezekiel 16. But if you read ALL of Scripture, you’ll discover that it wasn’t an exhaustive list.
    In addition, can you explain what the other abominations are in Ezekiel 16:50?

    Here’s something that amuses me: Some pro-gay individuals are quick to point out that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for pride, and not homosexuality. Interesting, given the fact that I see “gay pride” banners, bumper stickers and parades all the time.

  49. Wow, I honestly can’t believe some of you have never heard of Jennifer Knapp… She’s sold millions of albums in the contemporary Christian genre. Maybe if you played some of her stuff you would recognize her…

    Anyway, I am really shocked about this. To me it is sad news, not trying to be judgmental, but the Bible does say that it is sin. We all sin and fall short, but this is a re-occurring sin that she has to know is a sin. We are born to know right and wrong. My wife was a really big fan and she’s terribly disappointed.

    I’ll be praying for her instead of judging her. While I don’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle, I also understand that we are not to hate homosexual people. I wish more Christians would realize this, then we could make a difference by teaching the truth out of love and sincerity.

  50. I initially read the article on CNN, and it indeed made me sad. Any brother or sister in Christ can stumble, fall into error, and backslide. It is our job as Christians to pray for them. While we can speculate about their intentions, and comment on what sin is or isn’t, I believe we are most effective when we return back to God and ask Him for direction. I’m not close enough to Ms. Knapp to speak to her or encourage her to humble herself before God, but I can pray for her, as well as the lives of the saints who have been adversely affected, the saints whose hearts are too hard to admit to seeing themselves in her situation, and the unbelievers who are too blind to see the darkness covering their eyes. I’ve seen what God can do, and our salvation is a journey. Only those who quit don’t make it. If we stay in the process and endure to the end, we’ll see God’s kingdom.

    So judge her sin, this is necessary. John 7:24
    Judge her response to her sin, as this too is necessary.Matt 7:1-5
    But DO NOT judge her value or her usefulness to God, because as long as she’s breathing, God’s working on her.1 Cor 4:5

    Judgment and Homosexuality are recurring themes, so I’ve documented a few notes here:

    http://www.phylicia.us/?p=20

    http://www.phylicia.us/?p=17

    I thank God that is truly making us one in Him.

  51. Just so we all know “virginia” is actually a man who makes his rounds on Christian websites deflecting any criticism of homosexuality and “transgenders”. He’s been here before too…so welcome back “Virginia”. So if you are wondering why, just thought I would inform. He seems to want to keep that a secret for some reason.

  52. David, Im being real honest when I say I dont “fan” any Christian music industry worker. I dont think its right. To me its a trap. While Jennifer Knapp may have been well known to some because of the millions of albums she put out, I never listened to any of it nor heard of her. And I dont think that strange. As I said we need to dismantle the cult of celebrity in the church that put these people on pedastals only because they have talent when clearly there are serious spiritual issues with their souls. Nobody’s music is that good to where they will make me forget their soul needs salvation.

    Having said that, I dont feel the need to explain that Im not being judgmental. And for those who assume its “hate” to call sin out and remind people that God is holy and requires holiness (Heb 12:14) then its an unfortunate assumption for them. Is 58:1 is still in full effect and guess why?

    You pray for her if thats what God has lead you to do, but silent prayer is not the only option or answer for public sins that are glorified as natural love progressions.

    I do agree with you that this is sad and tragic. Not just for the “stars” but for any soul to turn away from God into sin and death. May God have mercy.

  53. David, I do know who Jennifer Knapp is and perhaps this is why her situation has gripped me in the way that it has.
    I do hope for her sake that she’s indeed saved and that she’s only tripped up in her sin. If that’s the case I pray too, that God will draw her back.
    However, after 8 years of living that lifestyle, I have my doubts.

    Frustration took its toll on me here because of the disregard for God and His Word. People want to appease the sinner and minimize the place of God.
    Our lives are sacrificial; we don’t live to be “authentic” but to be prolific in our testimony.

    With that, I have nothing else to say about it. I think I’ve said enough here.

  54. I have to admit… reading the comments on this site has been VERY VERY difficult for me to do. So many of them make me feel like a lesser person…

    I’m 24 years old. I’m a Christian and a recent graduate of a Christian university. I’m also gay. It’s been such a tough thing for me to accept. I know the Bible inside and out, and I know what it says about homosexuality. But at the same time, I also know how I feel inside.

    None of you know me, so I can only be so convincing, but I promise you all a MILLION times over that I would prefer to be straight rather than gay. I have yet to tell my family because I’m afraid they’ll reject me. I’m afraid to tell my friends because I’m afraid I’ll lose them. To CHOOSE to live this way would make no sense whatsoever. I would like nothing more than to have a wife and three kids and a home in the country… but again, I can’t help how I feel inside. I can’t help that I’m gay. I promise promise promise that it’s not a choice I’ve made. Most gay people would tell you the same thing. I have memories that stretch back to elementary school of having interest in the same sex.

    To many of you here, that may sound disgusting. It may repulse some of you. I truly hope not. I’m a great person with a huge heart and an intense love for God and family. I’ve created charities, started church service for teens, etc. In my short 24 years on Earth I’ve lived the life of a good person, a good family member, and a good Christian.

    Like the rest of you, I know the Bible is the inspired Word of God. At the same time, however, we must remember that it was written by the hands of men. I put my faith and trust in the God’s Word… but gay or not, I’m also willing to realize that many parts of the Bible were written for a specific people, many of whom thought Christ would return in their lifetimes (2 – 3 generations after Christ’s death and resurrection). The Bible allows for slave ownership, the subservience of women, etc. These are all things that OUR society has now rejected. I really truly hope that we can do the same thing with homosexuality.

    All I know is that at the end of the day, I love God and God loves me. I am his child. I have not chosen my sexuality just like I haven’t chosen to be Caucasian or a male. I don’t know if I can convince anyone of that, but it hurts my heart to hear so many people say that I’m “choosing a life of sin.” I think we can all learn from the words of Christ when he says, “Take the log from your own eye before you remove the speck from your neighbor’s.”

  55. Tyler a proclamation that you know the Bible inside and out does not mean you know Him or obey Him. Satan knows the whole Bible front to back and he is still going down.
    If you prefer to be strait than gay than them repent of your homosexual sins turn the Lord for deliverance. He can make you reflect the image of God again.

    There are 4 things that turn a person homosexual. Every single person involved in the homosexual lifestyle suffers from at least one of these 4.
    1. Lack of Father either in the home or your dad bailed on you.
    2. Molestation
    3. Rape
    4. Feelings of Abandonment

    You say that you’re a good person and a good Christian when God’s Word says there is not 1 good person. In fact you need to be an obedient Christian and follow His Commandments, like man shall not lie man as woman, it is an abomination.

    Romans 3: 10as it is written,
    “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

    Luke 18:19And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

    The model of the Husband Wife relationship is a direct parallel to Christ and His Bride as pointed out in the Scripture. Since a bride cannot be a man, there cannot be a homosexual union in the Body of Christ. The man is priest/protector/lord of his household including his wife.

    Ephesians 5: 23For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

    1 Corinthians 11:3But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

    Tyler Conviction which is from the Lord hurts because you are living a rebellious lifestyle contrary to God’s Word. It is really getting at you because you need the absolute approval of your lifestyle or you feel disgusted with yourself. That is deception from satan and you suffer from affectation. You either have to pretend to be gay and happy or strait and normal either way you are living a lie.

  56. Robert- what about those people who have never suffered from your list of 4 causes. Or the people who suffered from all 4 and even more but still came out heterosexual?

  57. Tyler, you many not be able to help yourself but Christ can help you.

    Romans 8:12-14

    12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

    My friend, your temptation may not be your choice but it will be your choice if you follow it.

    May The LORD deliver you!!!

  58. Dear Tyler,

    You say, you have read the bible, and know it to be the inspired Word of God. You say, this is not a “choice” you have made, oh my friend, but it is. I’m sure you are familiar w/these verses of scripture, “Every man did that, which was right, in his own eyes” and also, “It is a way that seems right unto man.” You know Tyler, God is in the business, of showing us the error of our ways, that we may come to him, and be cleansed. He shows this, in many varied circumstances, and many times using us, as vessels, to cut each other off, from excuse and justification. This is not about judging you, my friend, but it is you, who said, you believe in the inspired Word of God, then of your own admittance, you are in sin, and have already judged yourself. Cease being blinded by your own heart, “for let no man say that he is tempted of God, but of his own lust.”

    There is deliverance and wholeness for you, my friend, if you truly seek and desire it, for at time, you appear “content” to stay where you are, take hold of Christ garment, and as the woman w/the issue of blood was held, so shall you, “Jesus Christ, the same, yesterday, today and forever.” And I’m sure you know something of the arthur of this blog, he will surely tell you, of Christ deliverance, and he will also tell you of the lies, your appearing to hold on to. You say you believe in the love of Christ, then believe in his “POWER” to deliver you, from death to life.

  59. Robert – I have had a near perfect life. My dad has always loved me with all his heart and all his soul and would die for me if the occasion presented itself. I have never been molested or raped; and I have NEVER felt abandoned. I’ve always been completely surrounded by people who love me and care for me.

    To get very personal and honest for a second, my first memories of having an attraction to the same sex came when I was about 7 or 8. I was watching an old black and white western at my grandparents house and one of the guys took his shirt off. Seeing him shirtless really piqued my interest in a way I didn’t understand at the time. By the time I got to junior high, I started to find myself interested in guys in my class; and the attraction grew as I got into high school. Just as any heterosexual guy starts developing feelings for girls during adolescence, I started developing feelings for guys. I PRAYED every night that the feelings would go away. I prayed every Sunday at Church that God would make me “normal.” I cried myself to sleep on numerous occasions. Things didn’t change. But throughout that time, I retained my faith and put my trust in the Lord — I knew that even if He never changed me from gay to straight, He would always be there for me and comfort me.

    Like I said before, being gay is something I would never choose. I know what the Bible says. I trust in God. I’ve been raised a conservative Christian my entire life. I believe that Christ died for my sins. I despise the devil. I know that my family might reject me if I tell them I’m gay. I know that my friends might abandon me if I share my sexual orientation. WHY WOULD I STILL CHOOSE TO BE GAY??? It is completely illogical. The devil has not infected my heart and mind. Both belong to God. I know it’s hard for a heterosexual person to understand what it’s like, but my attraction to guys is exactly the same as a straight guy’s attraction to women. It’s just the way we are.

    Robert, being gay is not “getting at me.” I promise you that. I’ve come to terms with it. The way gay people are looked down upon by the church, however, does “get at me.” The things that other Christians have said about gay people turns a lot of them from the Church. Luckily, I have remained steadfast in my faith, and I will continue to remain steadfast for as long as I live. And I’m not “disgusted with my lifestyle.” I live the same as any straight Christian… I just happen to be interested in guys instead of girls. For the longest time I’ve pretended to be straight and happy… not gay and happy. All that leads you to is a life of self-deception, lies, and hurt.

    I can’t say anything for boys who were molested and later became gay. Perhaps that is a product of their situation, perhaps its a mere coincidence. I’m sure there are many people out there who have been molested and are still heterosexual. I can only speak for myself.

    Finally, I find it very interesting how many people here line-quote the Bible. In doing so, we often lose sight of the main messages of Christ in the Gospels: love of God, neighbor, and self; faith in Christ; and charity. In the end, not much else matters. It will be for God to decide if I am unworthy of salvation. Please don’t take this the wrong way, but it would do a lot of Christians a lot of good to concentrate on their own sins, their own shortcomings, and their own relationships with God. Stop passing judgment. We need to stop using our spare time condemning people (ie: Christian singers who happen to be lesbian) and use it to start feeding, clothing, and housing the poor as well as strengthening our own relationships with the Lord.

    Please don’t make life any harder for gay people. They have enough to deal with with their families, friends, and faith. They don’t need people across the country and world condemning them. I have a thick skin, but many do not. Harsh criticism just pushes more and more people away from the church. Accept them with open arms just as Christ would and you will be amazed at what will happen.

  60. As a person who’s struggled with (and indulged in) homosexuality for much of my young adult life, I can tell you that there are no fixed equations that you can fit all like people into. The reasons are as varied as the people who are affected by it. There are people who dont fit any of your criteria Robert and they are homosexual. There are people who fit all of the criteria and they are not homosexual.

    Its not wise to make such statements because they cannot be proven as true and applicable to a majority of the people.

    I would be more comfortable supporting that all sin stems from our fallen nature and whatever might be embedded within it.

  61. Tyler youve made a lot of assumptions about people who have posted here. Id just suggest that you leave all that aside and engage whomever. This is a blog primarily about homosexuality and most of the “regular” commenters are well aware of what all that means. We have over 400 posts that talk about it in detail and from various aspects. Plus there have been plenty of other people (including me) who have shared their stories of struggle here and have found understanding, grace and truth. So no one is “disgusted” by what you have to say.

    Just thought you should know that.

  62. I just had to say..

    @ Robert

    “The model of the Husband Wife relationship is a direct parallel to Christ and His Bride as pointed out in the Scripture. Since a bride cannot be a man, there cannot be a homosexual union in the Body of Christ. The man is priest/protector/lord of his household including his wife. ”

    that was tight!

    @TYLER

    The author of this web site is a former homosexual,
    Im 19, I am a former homosexual.

    We are called to walk by Faith, not according to how we feel.
    Though how strong the feelings may be. And when something comes up such as thoughts/feelings that pushes itself against the truthfulness of God and His Word and the life He has called us to live, we are to cast it down (2 Corinthians 10:5)

    No, you did not choose to feel this way, and I dont think people here were meaning that, but we do have control
    over our actions and what we choose to do with them.

    Christ tells us in Mark 7:21 of the evil things that come out of our hearts, feelings and emotions come from our hearts, and our hearts are deceitful, (Jer 17:9)

    We must not follow how we feel, but only the truthfulness of God’s Word, and completely rest there. Because His word is useful even for today.

    I have found salvation in Christ, along with all of its benefits, which is a really long list, so have many other people.

    Christ came to save us, to redeem man and set free man under the control of sin. And generously provides His strength and power, which is amazing!

    I encourage you as with gcmAuthor has said to watch the testimonies on this website and some all over the web.

    Marcc

  63. Marc – In all honesty, I would be very interested in talking to you about the process you went through to become a former homosexual… for me, intense prayer has not yielded results. Dating girls and pushing my feelings aside has done nothing.

    I’d love to exchange e-mails if you’d be willing. I would prefer not to have an intimate discussion on a message board! haha If you would be willing to share your e-mail address, I would really appreciate it. Mine is willy_t_lang@yahoo.com.

    I’ve heard many mixed things about people who are formal homosexuals and would like to learn more. My same-sex attraction stems back to a time before I even knew what the words “gay” or “straight” meant, so I’m a bit skeptical, but I’m willing to listen. For me, it’s hard to think that God would allow such a “damnable sin” to “infect” me at the ripe age of 7… (at that point I was still reading my picture Bible); but like I said, I’m all ears if you’re willing to share your story.

    GCMWatch – I apologize for any assumptions I may have made. I just read post after post that said less than stellar things about Jennifer Knapp. It just saddened me to read posts from so many flawed people (we are all flawed) criticizing and demonizing one of Christ’s children. It’s not our place to say that she or me (or anyone else for that matter) is fallen. Like I said before, our time/effort spent judging others should instead be used to help our brothers and sisters who are suffering from disease, poverty, and malnutrition. We should spend our time preaching the Good News. We should spend our time on our own relationships with God. We should not, in my opinion, get caught up in the “sins” of others. As Christians, we are often too quick to judge and condemn and not quick enough to love.

    Regardless, I’m more or less done. I just wanted to share my story. In my mind, I have absolutely no reason to be gay, but I am. When I’m standing before Christ someday in Heaven, I believe He will welcome me with open arms. He will say, “You believed in Me, you loved Me, and you loved others as you loved yourself. Welcome into My Kingdom.”

    To be a hypocrite and line-cite, I leave you all with this:

    “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

    …but…

    “He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting.” (John 3:36)

    Amen.

  64. “I just read post after post that said less than stellar things about Jennifer Knapp”

    Tyler, in that case instead of using generalizations against unknown commenters, then just point out what you think they said is wrong and offer your correction. That’s completely acceptable.

    Im not sure if you expected praise for Jennifer Knapp or her decision to leave the truth. What is there to praise when someone embraces sin while claiming to know Jesus Christ?

    That’s the issue at hand.

  65. Here are the specifics you asked for gcmwatch:

    “I only pray that somewhere down in that heart of hers that’s been given over to a reprobate mind, truth would utterly prevail and she would repent and “come out” from such an abominable lifestyle.”

    GCMW: What is wrong with that? Based on Romans 1 its true.

    — What makes the “sin” of homosexuality worse than other sins? Who are we to judge that it is a greater offense? Maybe we should devote a website to the sins of each person on this message board (that’s tongue-in-cheek, btw). Christ called us to serve the poor… if we aren’t doing that on a consistent basis, then are we not all constantly sinning? We’re ignoring Christ’s instructions…

    “She needs to be treated as a reprobate, turned out of the Church so the devil can buffet her and hopefully come to the saving knowledge of Christ.”

    — This sounds like malice mixed with Christianity. Why should she be turned out of the church? We all sin daily.
    GCMW: Paul instructed the same thing in 1 Cor 5. Are you against that also?

    “She still claims to be a Christian… she was selling CD’s as a Christian and all along she was sinner.”

    — We are all sinners. All people who produce Christian music are sinners. Should no one be allowed to make a Christian CD? Again, why does everyone focus on homosexuality? The Bible condemns MANY things… again, I believe we need to turn to our OWN lives and examine our OWN shortcomings and failures. Stop crucifying other people.

    GCMW: No, Tyler we are not. Maybe that’s the term you use, but that’s not what the bible says. We are the redeemed, overcomers, saints, more than conquerers, beloved, chosen generation, holy, royal priests, etc. Sinners are those who embrace and practice sin as a lifestyle. Jesus’s blood redeems us from sin, so why if you have been redeemed would you self identify as a sinner? And this statement didnt “crucify anyone. You are overreacting because you seem to support Knapp.

    “This woman chose to serve satan over 8 years ago”

    — When we all sin, are we all choosing to serve Satan? I don’t think so. We are pulling ourselves out of communion with God when we sin, but we aren’t “serving satan.”

    GCMW: When you embrace sin, you are a slave to sin. Romans 7 explains that. Since satan cannot force anyone to serve him, then it is only by choice. One sin does not make one a slave to sin. The difference is that IF YOU REPENT it changes the entire situation. Has Jennifer Knapp repented of or embraced her sins?

    “Christian “music star” now lesbian — I might have put the quotes around Christian instead of music star, but whatever.”

    — No one can judge another person’s heart. Only God can do that. To question someone’s faith is insulting. Her faith is between her and God and no one else.

    GCMW: Wrong. To judge righteously is a commandment from Christ himself. You are adopting the world’s “no judge” mantra and it doesnt work. If a tree bears bad fruit then it is a bad fruit tree. Should we be silent about another’s wrong conduct. And Tyler I cant help but notice you are judging here. Something you claim is so wrong, you are engaging in it.

    …So, as you asked… “what is there to praise?” Can we not praise the fact that she is a child of God? Can we not praise the fact that she hasn’t turned her back on the church? It would be so easy for her to disregard a faith community that disregards her, but she hasn’t done that. LOVE HER. VALUE HER. DON’T CRITICIZE, JUDGE, AND DEMEAN HER. NO ONE deserves that. NO ONE.

    GCMW: If she were a child of God she would repent of her sins, knowing it is against the will of the Father. There is a BIG difference when someone sins and they privately keep it to themselves. But Knapp used this to launch her new “career”. She gave interviews to both popular Christian and gay news publications. Dont be naive, this is nothing to praise. It is a sad and tragic situation and her sin devalues her much more than anyone’s words. The soul, not someone’s opinion is priority.

    I will say it one last time, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. We must worry about our own sins, our own relationship with Christ, and stop judging other people. It is not our place. Nothing but love and charity should flow from our hearts, just as it did from Christ’s. I never remember reading a passage about Christ condemning a sinner. We should follow his lead. Anything less should make us reevaluate the presence of Christ in our hearts.

    gcmwatch – Of all the things I said, all you could comment on was the fact that I didn’t mention specifics regarding Jennifer Knapp. I would like to hear your response to some of the other things I’ve said — especially about judging others and focusing solely on homosexuality.

    GCMW: Except this, you havent directed anything at me personally to respond to. But as the blog’s moderator you (and no one else) will come here and make unwarranted accusations against the good people who comment here. Thanks for apology.

  66. Actually, we were all born with original sin; so yes, we are all sinners… That is why Christ died and rose for us… because we sin — and because we sin, we are sinners.

    “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”–Romans 3:10

    “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”–Romans 3:23

    “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”–Isaiah 53:6

    And you may want to rethink your “no judge” mantra thrown on us by the world. Check out Romans when you get the chance:

    Romans 2:1 “You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.”

    But I’m not going to get into a Bible quoting battle with you. It’s fruitless and unproductive. You can find and use almost any Bible verse to match your purpose.

    I don’t have the time, effort, or energy to argue this anymore. All I can say is this: open up your heart, focus on your own shortcomings, give your extra time to the poor and needy, and LOVE. Love love love.

    “Three things will last forever–faith, hope, and love–and the greatest of these is love.” – 1 Corinthians 13:13

    Love is one of the greatest gifts we can give. Even if you don’t agree with Jennifer Knapp, stop condemning her and love her. If she needs to be condemned, God will condemn her. From you, all she needs is love and support. It’s what Christ commands.

    Take care.
    Tyler

  67. It would appear that the greatest thing that binds believers together w/Christ and each other is made so much mockery of today. Pastor I’m sure you would agree love rejoices in the truth, without love there is no truth, for love is truth. That is why Christ said, “everyone who “LOVES” the “TRUTH” listens to me. If I love you then I’m going to tell you the truth, I echoe a verse of scripture from proverbs, “Blessed are the wounds of a friend” now what that friend tells you may hurt and offend, and its possible, you won’t want anything to do w/them for awhile, but you will know, what they said was out of love. To many times we mock the love of Christ, to justify and make excuses for things, we want to uphold, knowing full well its wrong. And as for judging, we cannot judge the intents of a persons heart, unless revealed to us by the Spirit, but we can most definetely judge sin, but that must be done without a hypocritical heart.

    Tyler did you know that God’s judgement, justice and love are all one in the same? Did you also know, that a true believer knows when another, is making excuses and justifying themselves, how does he/she know this, because they have constantly allowed the Spirit of God to examine them. “The Word of God is quick and powerful sharper than any two edged sword, it divides the bone and the marrow, and is a DISCERNER of the THOUGHTS and INTENTS of the HEART.” Cease allowing Satan to cloud your judgement, noone is trying to be judgemental of you, but, you are submitting, and it appears willingly to a lie. You say you’ve asked for deliverance, well I know alittle something about that, asking for deliverance in a certain area of life, and the Spirit revealed to me, I really didn’t want to be delivered, I was simply doing what the scripture says, from 1 and 2 Kings, “I did what right, in the sight of the LORD, but not w/a perfect heart.”

    We have to do our part, and that is be willing and wanting to be delivered, healed and made whole. For if we truly desire to be made free, as much as we love the sin were involved in, then well, “whats impossible w/man is not impossible w/God.” Pastor had to comment on this, getting alittle tired of the “LOVE” of Christ being made mockery of to justify and make excuses for foolishness/sin, when it was “LOVE” that kept him on the cross, nothing else. Tyler stop using love to justify your stronghold, and allow it to free you. Remember what Christ asked the man at the pool of Bethesda, “Do you want to be made whole?”

  68. I think its rather arrogant and disengenous to think that just because I stand with God’s truth against sin it has to mean I dont love or have no compassion. Supporters of gay christians attempt to make it an either/or. Its not. We can and do speak the truth in love.

    Frankly those accusations are really played out and I struggle to entertain them as if they have some sort of merit when these types of cases come up.

    But then again when you dont think that homosexuality is a sin, I guess lobbing false accusations doesnt hold much weight either.

  69. I’m not mentioning Jennifer Knapp anymore. But I wanted to comment just one more time under this story because Tony D. wrote something that I think is significant:

    “You say you’ve asked for deliverance, well I know a little something about that, asking for deliverance in a certain area of life, and the Spirit revealed to me, I really didn’t want to be delivered, I was simply doing what the scripture says, from 1 and 2 Kings, “I did what right, in the sight of the LORD, but not w/a perfect heart…We have to do our part, and that is be willing and wanting to be delivered, healed and made whole. For if we truly desire to be made free, as much as we love the sin were involved in, then well, “whats impossible w/man is not impossible w/God.”

    Tony, I think you hit the target when you wrote that.

    There’s not a doubt in my mind that if someone is truly born again they’ll turn from a sinful lifestyle. We’ll always sin in these bodies, of course, because of the flesh. But when we realize that we’ve been bought with a price, we both know and do what is required of us in order to follow Christ. In regards to temptation, the Lord will indeed provide ways of escape because He said He would in His Word. Resisting temptation is easier said than done, for the flesh is corrupt and it’s is constant conflict with the Spirit of God, but we need to take Him at His Word. I’ve experienced this truth and so have countless others – He will indeed make a way, all the time, for those who are His.

    I know I’ve repeated myself regarding this, but I can’t let go of it: as children of God, our lives are sacrificial. The word “sacrificial” has become lost in this mire of postmodernism – the Church in general doesn’t know how to sacrifice for Christ. We have too much. We lack nothing, at least most of us on this side of the world. We’re not persecuted by our leaders – at least not as the early believers were – and murdered for our faith. More noteworthy is the fact that our culture is narcissistic to the core, and this amour-propre has creeped into the Church. And with modern psychology now substituting for the Word of God within many churches, our modern sensibilities have been rationalizing our sin.
    Isn’t it great?

    We, as believers, need to go back to thinking biblically.
    And I include myself here.

    I emphasize it again: many things that are accepted in this day and age, especially in this culture where the self is exalted above all else, are not accepted by God. We Christians need to train our minds to think biblically, not according to the latest research bit or pop culture ideaology. We have to conform our minds to the Word of God.
    I can’t get away from this.
    And perhaps I shouldn’t have used the word “train” as I’m sure some people would say that I’m using cult language.
    I suppose that’s what’s become of anything related to God and His Word – both being used as cultish, mind-numbing techniques.

    I’m just becoming more convinced as the days go by that those who’ve rationalized the act of homosexuality have ransacked the Scriptures. Their purpose has been to locate verses that speak of the love of Christ and the instructions to the help the needy, all the while willfully ignoring verses like 1 Corinthians 6: 18 – 20. And of course these verses aren’t only for those who engage in homosexuality, but it most certaintly includes them.

    Well Pastor, I’m in total agreement with you regarding the often-recited accusations. It gets so old after awhile, you know.
    Sometimes I do wonder if we can ever balance grace and truth.

  70. Tyler, as man who claims to know the bible inside out, you use it in the most inapropriate way, TO JUSTIFY SIN. Since you struggle with homosexuality you run to defence of someone who claims Christ but doesnt even acknowldge sin! In doing so you have slaughtered any chance of sin being dealt with in the Church. For you unless one is perfect he cannot say something is wrong and that goes against all scripture as we will not be perfect until Christ returns.

    Here is a few scripture for YOU to ponder regarding Ms. Knapp.

    1 John 1:9
    9If we CONFESS our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

    A Psalm of David.
    1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
    Whose sin is covered.
    2 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity,
    And in whose spirit there is no deceit.

    3 When I kept silent, my bones grew old
    Through my groaning all the day long.
    4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
    My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah
    5 I ACKOWLEDGED my sin to You,
    And my iniquity I have NOT HIDDEN.
    I said, “I will CONFESS my transgressions to the LORD,”
    And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah

    I think this is your biggest problem.

    “Like the rest of you, I know the Bible is the inspired Word of God. At the same time, HOWEVER, we must remember that it was written by the hands of men.”

    What does that imply? I dont get why one who believes the Word of God is inspired would have to come with “however”, However what? its either you believe that the Word of God is infallibale and inerrant or you dont and until we come to one conclusion or the other we are in no mans land and deliverance will most likely not come.

    I do agree that love is the greatest gift but what you are on about is not love but emotionalism due to your situation.

    You need to repent and turn to Christ. All of this how much you love God sounds good but If you do, quit making excuses for your sin, the more excuses you make the more likely you will remain.

    I can remember lusting after women since primary school does that mean that thats how I am so I get a free pass, NO! I must take control of my thought life and feelings. Something I didnt have to or want to do when I was a stinkin sinner, TRUST ME ON THAT!

    As far as all the scriptures about there in none righteous and all have sinned, these scriptures show the depravity of man and the desperate need man is in of Christ as we are only saved by His grace. Please remember though that grace is not a license to sin (Romans 6:1-2).

  71. Paul, just based on his responses, I dont believe the “know the bible inside and out” statement. From the very beginning he has shown no sincerety about wanting to be right with God. Its all “dont judge” stuff as if that is the panacea for sin. I think he is straddling the fence and upset because he doesnt truly value God’s word as the authority on dealing with homosexuality. Like most of those who cover for all the gay christian crowd, they minimize the Word UNLESS its about how much we should love their sin and approve of their actions. Otherwise it has little to no merit.

    Personally I think the whole Jennifer Knapp thing is marketing and promotions. She wanted to sell her new cd and get her career back in the spotlight so she picked something she knew everyone would talk about and viola!. The entertainment types do it all the time. She could have easily made her “nonChristian” music and said nothing about her being gay, but this was calculated to get $$$. Sad.

  72. “From the very beginning he has shown no sincerety about wanting to be right with God.”

    Thats how I feel also Pastor, he is all over the place without dealing with his issue. It seems the real issue is how to break the news to those who he loves as God is kool with it.

    I also agree that Ms. Knapp is using this as a money making opportunity. If she is still a Christian and it seems she see’s nothing wrong with her lifestyle why not continue to sing the praises of God?

    Truly Sad, we can only hope and pray that she will come to the knowledge of the truth.

  73. When it comes down to it Tyler you don’t want to truly be healed. You would rather wallow in your sin rather than be transformed by the Power of the Gospel.

    Since you have deceived yourself into believing homosexuality is not a sin I have no reason to believe that there is no some former issue in your past that you won’t acknowledge.

  74. Tyler, I must say you love your sin. You love being homosexual and takes great pleasure in it. Had you not love it, you would not be defending it so vehemently. You love your sin and hate God, so stop pretending. You are only fooling yourself you cannot fool The Most High God, nor can you fool the redeemed. You are on the attack, just understand that you are attacking the Word of God. Your problem is with God, whether you wish to admit it or not. You are fighting God and you cannot win. Stop pretending that you are a christan and know the bible, because if you were, your concerns would have been different. You are filled with pride and self love/selfishness and have made an idol of yourself and your sexuality and that is wrong.

    Tyler you must see your self for who you are, a wretched sinner. Compare yourself to God and you will understand. He is our measuring rod. Tyler understand that God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble. You must submit to God. Forget sex for a moment, just repent for being an enemy of God, ask Him to forgive you, wash you, and purge you, just because you are His enemy. Ask Jesus to take residence in you, Tyler He is sufficient.

    Tyler your focus is wrong, you are making it a sexual thing, and believe me that is a trick of the enemy, because that is the least of your problem. Forget sex and ask the Lord to transform you into His image. Humbly submit your very all to Him, he will not resist you. As you submit to Him, He will change you, you cannot change yourself. Praying, crying, fasting or anything you do with a lofty heart will not change you. Makeing it about you and your sexuality, will not move Him, it must be all about Him.

    You must be broken before The Most High God, no one can do that for you. It is Him in all His holiness, righteousness, blessedness, loveing-kindness ……..and all the beauty of who He is that you offends. STOP MAKEING IT ABOUT SEX. If you truely want to be changed, submit your all to Him.

  75. Bro Foster,
    Just thought you might want to know, it was brought to my attention that the CNN.com article on J. Knapp is one of their most-read articles of the year. It’s definitely a topic that has stirred a lot of interest and passions — on both sides. It has gotten over 1 million views and over 6,000 comments(!). (Personally, the only place I can remember seeing that many comments on a single article is on ESPN.com)

    It was good to see your blog represented, giving a biblical viewpoint and response to the issue. I’m hoping and believing that God has and will use the article to drive some extra traffic to your blog, so people can be exposed to a proper Biblical viewpoint on the “gay Christian” issue. Blessings to you and your ministry for all you do regarding this very timely issue.

  76. Observer, I looked at it the other day and was very surprised to see the exceptionally high number of comments. So wow I can concur with you statement. I think thats attributed to the fact that the reporter did an excellent job giving the story several “snapshots” of voices which brought life to it, rather than repeating the same old stuff we normally see on this subject.

    I will say that it appears it brought out an excessive number of people who were quite hostile to our message, but God opens doors for a purpose. For that we give him praise.

  77. Pastor I didnt realize that CNN quoted you!!! Well Praise Him again!!!

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Music/04/16/jennifer.knapp.gay/index.html?iref=allsearch

    Rev. DL Foster is the founder of the Gay Christian Movement Watch Web site and said he believes as society has become more accepting of homosexuality, Knapp and other artists are finding it easier to go public.

    “For a person to try and combine [being gay and being a Christian music artist] is not biblically correct, and I would hope that the church would reject such music because it does not represent us,” he said. “To me, it doesn’t matter if you are openly gay or closeted gay, sin is still sin.”

    Amen to that!!!

  78. “I would rather be judged before God as being an honest human being,” she said. “If I am in any way unpleasing in his sight, I can only hope and pray that he gives me the opportunity to find who I am supposed to be.”

    What does that mean? how naive and neglectful of ones responsibility.

  79. We are believers, We are the salt of the world..If we lose our salt, our flavor who will the unsaved go to for help if the saved our becoming just like them again? And if the church doesn’t stand up, where will the unsaved go for help because the church has lost her soul and cannot be a strength to others, because she will not have it. Any and all words they will speak will just be platitudes.

    When we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, we accept his salvation plan. That salvation plan rescues us and keeps us from a life of sin…if we are committed.

    For believers to openly reject God’s path of salvation and for want to mingle and be like non believers a lifestyle from which Christ rescued them from, puts the reason of the cross to shame. As the bible teaches us, they have no other plan of salvation.

    There’s no ‘fear of God’. People are not fearing Him. Hellfire and damnation is set for the soul that ‘shrinks back” again as God’s Word teaches us – if our soul shrinks back God has no pleasure in us.

    For these people to ‘come out’ it’s almost like a ‘hurrah!’ we’re just like you…we’re no different then you – a compromise to gain the ‘love’ of the world…Well that will cost them their eternal abode…because God is no one to mock.

  80. I am curious as to the author’s and various commenters’ views on Exodus 21:1-11.

    I’m honestly curious as to your interpretations of this particular passage in relation to the concept of the Word of God, and whether or not the Bible can be interpreted in more than one way…in other words, ever interpreted relatively rather than literally, on certain topics, in particular certain social and cultural traditions and standards sometimes based (and sometimes changed by) time and geography.

    GCMW: This should answer all your questions.

  81. I find it sooo funny that people are real quick to bash the Bible on slavery but they themselves own something manufactured by child slave labor. Look at the tag on your T-Shirt, your shoes, Made in America right? Sure……

    Can you avoid it, no for a temporary time this world system who is in control of the evil one has to be this way, but very soon Christ will change it.

  82. The website you provided answers the most basic questions about interpretation and human communication.

    But it hardly answers all my questions; it tells me we cannot twist the basic truths or commandments of the Bible, like “Thou shalt not kill,” into “Kill when necessary,” or “Kill bad people,” or “Kill all those with whom you disagree.”

    These things are obvious.

    The humorous discourse between the police officer and the driver is a useful tool in understanding the way people can infuse their own wishes into how they interpret facts or basic truths.

    I am not arguing that one should view the Bible on a purely relative basis; nor am I, as Robert seemed to claim, “bashing” the Bible.

    Rather, I am asking for your interpretation of Exodus 21:1-11.

    GCMW: And why? Out of 66 books in the bibles, why did you choose this particular passage for interpretation? This is what you would call WAY OFF TOPIC. And if you need an answer so that your life will be better, send it to email.

    I want to know what you think of A) Slavery; B) its use/descriptions in the Good Book; and C) its application in today’s world after considering God’s own words in Exodus.

    You answered, I suppose, how you feel about any relative interpretations, ever; even that website, though, picks rather easy examples that any logical person, believer or nonbeliever, would clearly see as bad, irrational, or misguided interpretations. I tried many of the links on that site, many of them valuable and informative, but failed to find anything directly related to slavery, how one should properly interpret it, or how Jesus may have felt about it.

    I want to know the right interpretation of Exodus 21:1-11. If it cannot be interpreted relatively, at all, then there must be a “correct” interpretation. That said, I’d honestly like to know how you–and everyone else here–interpret that passage.

    GCMW: The link provided gave you a fundamental framework with which to look at all scripture. Id suggest you use it. Not all are interpreted using the same methodology. Some are historical, prophetical, allegorical, literal. Some a mixture of all or combinations of several. The deciding factor on interpretation is the Holy Spirit. If you dont have the Holy Spirit, then all the methodology in the world may not lead you to the right application of scripture.
    Im not sure why you are pressing for this on a post about a woman who is declaring she’s a lesbian and a Christian. If youre not interested in discussing that only the slavery issue, you can send your questions to email.

  83. Benjamin,

    The website pastor, gave to you, was extremely informative to your question, I researched, and found it to be quite accurate. Being an historian, when studying the bible, you must understand, the times and culture of antiquity, its basic interpretation. And you’ll find its no different, then the times we live in today, but as pastor said, in order to understand the “spiritual” significance, you must be born again. For a “natural” man cannot understand, the things of the “Spirit” for it is foolishness to him, for they are spiritually discerned (understood). And I also quote, mans’ wisdom is foolishness to God.

  84. How one interprets the Bible and its many passages seems to me to be very much the topic of this site, this article, and this string of comments in particular. You and others here have made it abundantly clear both how you feel about homosexuality and how you came to those feelings through a mix of personal experience, the Scripture, and the Holy Spirit.

    As a curious human being who has read the Bible but admits to no overwhelmingly grand understanding of it, it is indeed on topic, then, to want to find out your opinions on other potentially controversial or difficult parts of the Bible.

    Yes, the website gave me a framework to look at all scripture. It was also very basic, and while I was intrigued–and agreed–with many of the points there, the site overall had some fairly obvious answers without going in-depth in interpreting certain passages, in particular ones regarding the purchase and sale of other human beings, or other passages that could–even according to the site’s instructions–be interpreted in more than one way; or, if not in multiple ways, than according to different guidelines, whether historical, allegorical, cultural, literal, etc.

    I am choosing Exodus 21 because it seems to me to be one of those passages that can be interpreted in ways other than literal. I am also choosing it because slavery is obviously a controversial subject (as is homosexuality) to say the least, and not something I think most Christians actually support. That said, the Bible does lay down some rules regarding–among other things, obviously–slavery. I am interested in the possible dichotomy there: the lack of Christian support for slavery but the outright condoning and regulating of it by God Himself in the Good Book.

    You’ve answered the question by referring me to a site and then quoting the site; and for the second time, I might add, ignored my actual question.

    If I were to know your interpretation of this passage–as well as the interpretation of some of the commenters here–I feel I could better gauge what types of passages you and your sites’ followers follow mostly to the T, interpret loosely, relatively, historically, or if you interpret them all literally.

    Since you haven’t actually answered me, am I to assume you interpret Exodus 21 “historically?” In other words, as part of laws set down to the Hebrews in that particular time and place, in that particular part of history? This is what I’m curious about. How do you interpret it?

    With all due respect, I am not asking for a lesson on Biblical interpretation. I am simply curious as to your actual interpretation of a particular passage.

    GCMW: We’re about to go in circles here and someone is bound to get dizzy. Youre mistaken about the nature of this site. Read the about us. To end this rather unfruitful exchange, when we post a story on slavery, then youre welcome to pursue a line of questioning pertinent to that post. That’s the last word on that.

  85. Hey GCMWatch since this is a music thread I was just going to give your a heads up if your didn’t know all ready that the Dove Awards are on this Sunday. I’m sure we are going to have a repeat of the Stellar and COG Award shows if you know what I mean.

  86. Pastor Foster, I know this is a GCMWatch site but could you do a piece on the slavery issue? Just asking.

    GCMW: Just had a revelation. Sure I will, one peice on the slavery issue coming up.

  87. What comes to my mind more than anything else is Matthew 22:39,40 and John 8:7. This premise of this entire site is not in alignment with either of those communications from the mouth of Christ Jesus. If not in alignment with Christ, it must be in alignment with that which is anti-Christ. Why is this not apparent to the many people who profess to be in Christ who also choose to endorsingly participate in the negative discussions herein expressed?

  88. Alyras, Love is not and either/or. You love people enough to tell them the truth about their sins. Sin kills, steals, destroys, decimates, and deviates people from a relationship with Christ. If I was wrong I would want someone to tell me the truth, so that I could get right with God. When we refuse to do that, we only help people into hell. And their blood will be on your hands. Do you want someone’s blood on your hands because you didnt want to engage in so-called “negative” discussion? So, this site is in alignment with Matt 22:39.

    The question is are YOU in line with this:

    Watch out for false prophets for they come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves Mt 7:15

    But there are also false prophets among the people, even as there are false teachers among you who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who brought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Pet 2:1

    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 Jn 4:1

  89. Alyras what is so hard about understanding this? Strait from the mouth of Jesus.

    John 14:15″If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

    1 John 3:8Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

    Why do people like Knapp say they are Christians but proudly and willfully disobey Christ’s instructions? Homosexuality like abortion, lying, sex outside marriage is sin and you will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Romans 12:9Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.

    Who and What is evil? Read carefully and don’t be deceived….

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
    10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

    Revelation 21:8″But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

    Before you make an argument about Paul’s or John’s letters read further.

    2 Peter 1:20-21
    20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

    21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

    2 Timothy 3:16
    16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

  90. those that claim christ yet spit judgement truly cause an ache in my spirit; the same spirit that has been raised with christ’s resurrection. Are you just as intense on -all- sin? do you go after divorcees with as much intensity? do you shut down the porn shops along your interstates?
    It’s sad and ignorant/’unenlightened’.
    I’ve spent my life begging God to ‘fix’, ‘change’ or remake me; finally, for the last 12 years I’ve begged God to take my life, to wipe me out of existence for the self-hatred that has consumed me; over a decade of shame, fear, panic attacks and clinical depression that has only left me with one conclusion: that my life is unworthy of being lived since I have been unable to meet the ‘love-worthy’ minimum of heterosexuality that the voices of modern western christianity tells me.
    There is no grace for the celibate with same-sex attraction. It is conditional cultural acceptance, not the love of Christ.
    Currently, I’m nearly friendless and the Word gives me no comfort, though the Holy Spirit still occasionally uses me for intercession for others (with results).
    Where are the christian men who are ‘man enough’ to come alongside and demonstrate the superior love and accept me despite my brokenness?
    I’ve held to non-sexually expressed standards(celibacy), prayer, deliverances, programs, etc. etc. and none of it worked. All I am led to believe is that there is no one who really loves me since no one really knows me or has stepped alongside me on the journey, or if so, not for very long; most toss me a line or a program or cheap plattitude; tell the drowning man to try to float or swim and wish him your sincerest best.
    Yet at just past midlife, the result of all the well-meaning efforts is that I am more alone, depressed, miserable and not holding on very well to much of anything anymore.(job, friends,desire for life, hope)
    It angers me that so many ‘assume’ that someone just says “oh well” and flips off the switch for Christ and dons a rainbow-feathered boa and gets as much carnality as they can possibly manage.DO YOU THINK THIS IS EASY!?
    Over the last decade, nearly on a daily basis, I beg God: “I”m Sorry” as there are no other words I can compose any longer; I’ve tried towing every line and have been spiralling for years. I beg God for my destruction; will you agree with me in that, “brother”, “sister”? It is scriptural.. though all I ever wanted is to be seen and loved and accepted. any by the way: I don’t ‘fit in’ with the gay community either, in social contexts.
    So, please, love me or damn me but would someone please make it quick?

  91. A.C. I dont know about anyone else, but I have zero condemnation or judgment for you. I have been in your shoes and know exactly how you feel. I will go out on a limb and tell you that if you wanna talk about it, send me an email and I’ll give you my number to call.

  92. A.C., hang on in there. Remember that Jesus loves you. He, who is God, choose the humiliation of flesh just for you, He suffered, paid the penalty and died for you. Glory be to God, He rose for you and is now seated on the right hand of The Father interceeding for you. That is sufficient. If He was the only one that loved you, it would have been enough, as no one can love you more. Please get in touch with Pastor Foster. I will be praying for you.

    Thank you Pastor Foster. I am looking forward to this piece. I have been thinking a lot about it and think it should be addressed.

  93. Webmeister/GCMW, rascoe:
    thanks for your encouragements and sincerity. As I re-read the lines expressed above (others commentaries) it was quite hurtful by the prescribing of “all you gotta do is”.. (believe, repent, turn, call out, etc., etc…) To all of these: don’t you think that those of us who’ve contended with this issue haven’t been sincere about trying? Have you held out for something for over half your life for something from God that has not come through? For the record, God wired me with a failsafe that I can’t take my life. I’ve thought of it since I was young, before even realizing my incapacity to be a husband or father or before I knew there was such a thing as same-sex attraction.
    I have had deliverances, I’ve seen & done things by the Spirit of God that I’ve been honored to be used for (won’t enumerate, but there’s a long list of prayerful results). My vision/ purpose & desire to serve God has been destroyed (physically I can’t do it and the vision itself has gone).
    I’m empty, frankly too weak anymore to do more than just survive/exist; like Job of sorts, just no heroic ending in sight. I daily try to stay afloat and if God wants to rescue my life then it’s up to him now as I have no strength left. Physical issues (hands/feet/heart,etc), mental/emotional torment (depression). I gave my best to the church, to His people.I don’t regret following through w/ what’s been asked of me by God, where the Spirit has called/led me. Now I don’t find any sense of belonging, to family, to the church where I still feel called (though I cannot keep up with the church culture) nor do I feel any sense of belonging/identity to the (social/nonsexual) gay culture. (been ‘around’ but saw unfulfillment in the bar/anonymous quickie modes- and btw: `same mode for straight ‘singles bars’ if you think it’s one-sided emptiness)
    I’m not good looking enough for ‘most’, and those who see something usually want more of one characteristic of me than I can provide/sustain (emotionally/etc-like _I’m_ fit to rescue anyone) I feel & express care for people; I don’t feel worthy of being cared for myself, based on the evidence of 40 years of living, within & apart from church-people/xtns. “for without a vision my people perish” -yes. I’m waiting as the servant who buried his talent to be upbraided and cast away. Some mornings I wake up with an emotional ache in my body like I’ve been arguing all night long; and sometimes manage to cry before getting out of bed, begging God for forgiveness for my existence. Yes, I lash back at those here who say “it’s a choice”, or insinuate that my faith is insufficient or that I’m not “really” sincere about change or that I’ve not done ‘enough’. Two sessions of christian ex-gay groups, each time left me in a spiral of depression that sunk me even while I was on antidepressants to just maintain daily functioning.
    I have been deconstructed and eroded by expectations and experiences; even now I’m seeking to know not ‘what’ to believe but -how- to believe? because, yet again, I must be defunct, deficient and so despicable so as not to have found ‘the way of escape’ promised for me. I’m familiar with what I should believe, but do not know how to believe (that I am loved by people or God). It is a ‘little hell’, seeing and being aware of my separation from everyone and everything; knowing what should be and is not, and having years of results proving the accuser of my soul with more validity than the verses that are supposed to renew and recreate me.
    I’m sorry for saying so much so late, but I’ve not spoken these things to anyone and it’s been bottled up for years (with the exception of my God who hears it frequently) again, all I do is exist and try to stay afloat, and be used by God on other’s behalf when the Holy Spirit directs me;at least then I know I’m still connected somewhere to something. again, -sorry, but some comments here popped my boils, to put it lightly.

  94. a.c, may The LORD deliver you! my advice is to keep fighting and reach out for the help that has been extended. It is true that the church is founding wanting when it comes to helping people who struggle with homosexuality. Not only homosexuality though, many just love the pulpit and thats it. One of the biggest problems in the church is a lack of discipleship.

    I dont believe anyone is minizing the homosexual struggle or judging in the manner that many feel. Truth is, if its in the word of God then it is Gods word who is doing the judging ultimately.

    The problem is the twisting of Gods word to suit oneself, that is the issue here. If someone wants to do that and stay in sin, who is at fault. If I claim to be a Christian and then come with “buts” and “howevers” that cannot be good for the individual neither the church at large.

    For those who think some of the things said are too harsh, this is what Paul said regaring false teaching and sin.

    Galatians 5:7You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. 11But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. 12I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.

    Icorinthians 5
    1It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. 2You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
    3For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    6Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    9I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

    Does this mean that everyone who fails should be cast out, I dont think so, but if that indvidual is unrepentent and boasts in their sin, they have to go in order for them to come to the truth and for the preservation of the Church.

    Matt 18: if your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

    Sorry if I am too long, but I feel these scriptures will do much good in this discussion.

  95. AC, I have never struggled with homosexuality, but as a 46yr old, unmarried female, with one adult daughter, I have struggled with unlawful sexual desires. AC I understand that the truth can be painful, but pain does not change the truth into a lie. The comments that you found cutting are gospel truth, and are all biblically sound. You might not like them, but we cannot tell a lie, nor can we go against the Word of God. We cannot say things to put a band aid on a serious wound. The truth of the word does surgery on the hearts of the wounded and cause healing. Lies cannot heal.

    The most important thing you have to understand about sites like this and commenters like us, is that The Most High God is sovereign in our lives and our allegiance is to Him. We also believe in the inherency of the written word. We cannot adjust the word to please man. Our mandate it to contend for the faith and that we do.

    I encourage you to talk to Pastor Foster, he will understand, and be a source of strength for you.

  96. Dear AC,

    I have heard the comments of friends, like Pastor, Paul, and Rascoe1. They’ve given you heartfelt and loving christian counsel, I pray you receive the love. Always remember my friend, “love rejoices in the truth” and its, “the truth that will MAKE you free.” I recall an incident in both epistles Paul wrote to the church of corinth, where rebuking them sharply in 1st Cor, caused him some pain, but we find in 2d Cor, he recanted, saying he was glad he rebuked them sharply, because it caused them to change and repent. AC, God wants us to receive correction, humbly and w/an understanding heart, “Blessed are the wounds of a friend”, remember I said a “friend” not a “hypocrite” or a “legalists” or someone who believes and claims, they’ve “arrived” or “attained.”

    Hearing the truth, which leads to “conviction” will not always make us whistle dizzy (smile), but it will change us, if we receive it for what it is. Yes it is true many brethren have caused more pain, and anguish, than healing and deliverance, and yes, truth be told, some of the meanest and unloving people you can find are in the church. But there are many who are not this way, receive them. And know this God has not forsaken you, “I will never leave you, nor forsake you”, but it is we, who leave and forsake him, because deep down inside, where only He can see, were looking for justification and acceptance in things and lifestyles we ought not to, and when we do get it, we cry a “lack of love.” I pray the Lord surround you w/loving and mature brothers and sisters in the household of faith, but no this, if there truly brothers and sisters, there not going to tell you, always what you want to hear, and ought not to, for the Holy Spirit is not going to always tell you what you want to hear, but remember Satan is, going to always appease the flesh/and or sin nature.

  97. a.c. luthos said:
    those that claim christ yet spit judgement truly cause an ache in my spirit; the same spirit that has been raised with christ’s resurrection. Are you just as intense on -all- sin? do you go after divorcees with as much intensity? do you shut down the porn shops along your interstates?

    How do you know what I’ve been through? Quite a judgment call on your part isn’t it?

    Do I go after all sin is that your question. Well what does the Word say I should do? As I repeat it again…….

    Romans 12:9Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.

    Am I selective in what I abhor, Yes, that which is evil. Practicing Homosexuality (a sin) is evil therefore……

    I have said it once and Ill say it again. How come Jesus Christ can deliver a man from a porn and masturbation addiction which is another form of sexual perversion like homosexuality but He can’t deliver a homosexual in your own mind? You also have an issue of unbelief which is also a sin. You didn’t stand upon your deliverance therefore you backslid if you were delivered at all.

    AC you were a man created in God’s image like Me, Paul, Pastor Foster, King David, Jermiah.

    Thus sayeth the Lord to Jeremiah who was a man.

    5″Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,

    Why would God reach out his hand into your mothers womb to knit your cells together in His image to serve Him. Don’t you beleive you are God’s workmanship? It’s what the Word says.

    Ephesians 2:10For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live]

    Have you thought of watching Video:Freedom Stories? I would suggest it.

    This is the order of events I have seen AC.
    1.) God drew you to this website
    2.) What I spoke according to the Word caused “something” to rise up in you to comment on it.
    3.) Fellow Christians reached out to you in help

    Now it is up to you to humble yourself and receive Godly instruction (be disciplined) from Pastor Foster as he has reached out to you. If you can’t tell from his many articles God has kind of equipped him to deal with the homosexual issue.

    Maybe this moment is the answer to years of prayer Hhhmmm ;^)

    Isaiah 55:8″For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
    Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.
    9″For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
    So are My ways higher than your ways
    And My thoughts than your thoughts.

    Isaiah 43:13″Even from eternity I am He,
    And there is none who can deliver out of My hand;
    I act and who can reverse it?”

  98. I’m new to your blog and I love it but please somebody tell me where these “Christian entertainers” get their Christian education?

  99. Robert: simply said, I won’t banter with you on the contents of your reply; though your religion is hurtfully familiar I find no recognition of the compassion of the Christ in your words. I am more than an “issue” to be dealt with. Perhaps some day you may see, hear and experience more of God, that is also my hope for my own life. Until our individual completeness, I sincerely bid you peace.

    Thanks for those who acknowledged and offered support; essentially, to honor God I just have to ‘persevere’ in this current state of being. I spun through another set of depression since last I posted.
    I didn’t choose this. but to be truthful has put me apart. Where is Christ for me when I do not have the strength or trust to lift my head and look to him or reach the edge of his garment or no voice left to call out?

    I’ve considered the hardest thing to love is that which is ‘other’ and does not change in this lifetime; whether by ‘choice’ or deficiency; if it is a mental or physical handicap that doesn’t or cannot ‘get it’ like everyone else. mostly I find that those, (and myself) are labeled EGR and silently noted “lacking in faith” or some other qualifier.
    -What is Christ’s accommodation for these? (I’m not qualifying homosexuality as a handicap, but rather all the other stuff I contend with that separates me from the ‘norms’ and standards of western church)

    So that leaves me pretty much where I started. “persevere”

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