Should a registered sex offender hold church office? [UPDATED]

That’s the question some member churches are asking in the wake of a controversial appointment made by a COGIC bishop in Kansas City, MO.

With news of the Catholic church’s incredible dereliction of duty in the public eye almost daily, one wonders if the nation’s largest black pentecostal denomination is getting the message.

Frank Douglas, Jr. bishop of the Church of God in Christ’s Western Missouri jurisdiction has appointed and installed a registered sex offender as president of AIM (Auxillaries in Ministry) which, among other things,  has oversight of youth and children.

According to a leading Kansas City newspaper, In 2001, Leland Ted Jones former deputy at Wyandotte County (KS) jail was sentenced to 41 months in prison plus three years’ probation after pleading no contest to two-year-old charges of attempted aggravated criminal sodomy and aggravated sexual battery. His original charges were rape and aggravated criminal sodomy of a female prisoner [source].

The appointment came almost immediately after Jones’ roughly seven year prison and probation period finished.

Jones was installed as pastor this March by Douglas, who himself was just installed as bishop by Charles Blake in 2008.

Some members of the organization are livid about it. An unnamed source contacted  GCM Watch and said there is trouble brewing over the decision. The source said a number of churches are planning to leave the already small jurisdiction.

“Our AIM president is a registered sex offender and our bishop, Frank Douglas Jr., was aware of it and wanted to give Eld Ted Leland Jones a second chance. Needless to say, the support for Bishop Douglas’ leadership is fastly eroding. We have at least 7 identified churches that are planning on leaving the jurisdiction.”

If churches are ready to disfellowship over this, it appears to be a serious matter. The source stated that Jones’ status was made public after “some of the saints pulled him up on family watchdog”.

As of posting time, Bishop Douglas did not respond to requests to comment on the situation. COGIC’s operating manual (commonly called the Black Book) doesn’t appear to offer any guidance on this situation, so perhaps its clergy are left to make decisions on their own. Is this the type of “second chance”, Rev. Jones needs?

Back when we launched ReportCOGICAbuse.com, a question came up dealing with the application of Galatians 6 which addressed restoring a brother who has been “overtaken in a fault”. Here’s our response which may well apply in this situation;

Galatians 6 which states that spiritual members of the Body are to restore a brother who is overtaken in a fault is certainly to be considered in these cases. And no one is beyond forgiveness and restoration. We do need to understand the connotation of “overtaken” as opposed to pursuit and maintenance of a sinful lifestyle. However, sexual crimes pose a legitimate caveat for Gal 6. To wit, a sexual crime and a sexual sin ( or fault) are not automatically interchangeable, thus consequences come to bear. If a brother committed a sexual sin, forgiving and restoring him or her would be the sole jurisdiction of the church or at least those who are spiritual. Galatians 6 is applicable. If a brother committed a sexual crime which is also sin, the church does not hold sole jurisdiction and Galatians 6 is only applicable in part. While such a one can be forgiven, restoration (and restitution) is in the hands of the state. When we unjustly use scripture to protect individuals from facing the consequences of their crime, we become partakers of their sin and instead of facilitating the intent of Gal 6, we thwart it.

What do you think?  Should a person who is currently on a registered sex offender list,  be restricted from holding certain types of church positions?

UPDATE 05.06.10 1343

This has taken another strange turn. Sources in Kansas City informed GCM Watch that Ted Jones has been replaced as AIM Chairman by Supt. Jackie Cortez Vaughn [video], another recent appointment by Bishop Frank Douglas.  While Vaughn is not a sexual offender, the source provided public information showing that Vaughn was incarcerated as recently as March.  The video was posted March 27, 2010 while documents show Vaughn being released from a Wyandotte County detention facility March 18th. The saga continues…

Writer’s note: The previous attribution of Wyandotte County to “MO” was a simple parenthetical error which has been corrected. It has zero bearing on the facts of the case at hand.

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61 thoughts on “Should a registered sex offender hold church office? [UPDATED]

  1. “The appointment came almost immediately after Jones’ roughly seven year prison and probation period finished.”

    I smell something very fishy here! I’m sure there’s much more to this story that what we are hearing…

    Was there not someone with more of a spiritual record that lines up with Titus and Timothy regarding church leadership other than this fellow who is a “current registered” sex offender?

    I pray that he has truly repented and is striving to live a godly life, but I do not feel he should be holding any type of leadership position in the church.

  2. GS, he may have very well repented and lived right since then. But I for one would question the wisdom (with all that is going on) putting someone who is currently on the SO list in a high profile position. Im like you. There was no one else qualified? At all?

  3. But should restoration include the act of ordination and/or setting someone in a position of leadership?

    The man’s crime is in direct connection with the position that he now holds. The Bible does say that we are to forgive and restore. But in this particular case, this man has been given a leadership position over children, which probably leaves the parents of some of these youth uncomfortable.
    How do you deal with that?
    Can’t we restore, yet at the same time use discretion? I don’t think that makes the restoration conditional.
    We should use proper judgement.

  4. Exactly Angela. I think its more of a wisdom/judgment issue than one of restoration. Restoration in the literal sense would mean putting him back where he was before the crime. But he wasnt over that department before the crime. So why put him over it now?
    Restoration per Gal 6 would mean that the spiritually mature would engage with wisdom. I really, really question whether that was done in this decision.

  5. This is a serious lack of wisdom here. I believe his being instituted as a leader is a direct reflection of Frank Douglas, Jr.

    It would be unwise to make someone the treasurer who has been known to have sticky fingers, atleast not right after they come out of jail for stealing. We are talking about someone who was supposed to uphold the law raping someone!!! He not only committed sexual immorality but abused his power. How can you give someone authority over Gods people who has recently shown a lack of discipline as a leader?

    This is madness as far as I can see it. I agree with GS that there is more to this story.

  6. Pastor and Friends,

    I concur w/your statements, this is not a question of restoration, which were not going to doubt or question. But to put the brother in a situation where he has/had struggled grossly, is extremely questionable of discernment.

  7. What do you think? Should a person who is currently on a registered sex offender list, be restricted from holding certain types of church positions?
    Yes that person should be restricted, even the State of Missouri would not hire him to work around children. The Federal government would not even give him a chance in a position like this. As a registered sex offender, he can’t be allowed within so many feet of public schools and he can only live in certain areas. If the ungodly have these laws and rules set in place to protect children; why isn’t this church doing the same?
    Are there people that haven’t been to prison and have a stellar background in this church that qualify for this position? It’s wonderful to hear his testimony; I thank God that he is saved but come on! I believe the temptations are going to be too great because of the frequent contact with children. Every Sunday, Wednesday, camps, revivals, and home meetings-this is a demonic setup.
    The bishop has no discernment and this church is playing with fire and will get burned. Any parents that attend this church please find another one-your children are in harm’s way. The fox is in the hen house.

  8. He can be restored and delivered yes, but propping him up into a 5 fold ministry position so fast seems extremely fishy.

  9. In regards to this particular case, I do agree with what everyone else’s comments. One thing that has been on my mind, though, is that a person can be listed as a sexual offender for a wide range of infractions. We automatically think “rapist” or “child molester” when we hear “sexual offender”. An 18-year-old who slept with a 15 1/2-year-old would be labeled as a sexual offender. A corrections officer who had consensual relations with an inmate would be labeled a sexual offender. In the two examples I just mentioned, most people wouldn’t consider either a threat to children, but most people don’t think to look beyond the words “sexual offender” and see the entire story. Basically, I wouldn’t automatically dismiss someone just because of that label.
    I would say, in general, that a person can and should be restored to THE BODY OF CHRIST, if they’ve repented from their sin and got their deliverance. However, it surely wouldn’t be wise for that individual to be restored to a leadership position immediately (maybe eventually, it if be God’s will).

  10. http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/MSHPWeb/PatrolDivisions/CRID/SOR/factsheet.html

    This is a fairly composite look at how the law in Missouri looks at the different categories of sex offenders. As Jon said some are not deemed serious even if they are on the sexual offender registry. However, this Jones case is not about that. Per his conviction, his crime was violent and intentional.
    The listing on the sexual offender registry may be for life. Such are the consequences of sin which only God can change. Most times, forgiveness is abundant and pardon for sin is richly given. But no so with consequences. God never promised any of us he would erase or prevent the consequences of our sins after we are saved from them.

    I dont mean that as specific to Jones, because I too suffer in a way from the consequences of my sin which I have accepted as my lot to bear until full redemption. The thing about it is that the determination of the severity of consequences are solely in the hands of God and his mercy.

  11. Great post as usual Pastor,
    Should a registered sex offender hold a church office? It depends. I’m not trying to make light of the situation, because I understand its gravity. I don’t want to see anyone in the Body wounded by degenerate wolves in pastors robes.

    Before we were saved, most if not all of us were on “God’s Sex Offender List” at one time or another. Matthew 5:8 says, “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” In essence, we were offenders according to God’s standard of sexual purity, however we were innocent according to secular laws that do not consider the sin we committed a crime against society. But were we any better?

    Sometimes it easy just to say “No”. However, I can’t help but look at the people that God used in the Bible. Paul was a persecutor of the church and consented to christians death, Moses killed a man, David was a adulterer and had one of his subjects killed to get his wife, Rahab was prostitute, etc.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    What really matters is has the brother truly repented, been washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Has he received the healing and deliverance he needs to do what prayerfully God has called him to do? I pray that the person who placed him in the position sought the counsel and will of God.

  12. Eric I will be the first to agree that the question is a case by case basis of judgment. Even the law recognizes that not all that commit sexual crimes should be subject to the same level of punishment.

    All the people you mentioned were indeed used by God. But check their stories. Except for Rahab —because she was considered unregenerated—, all suffered consequences for their sins. Though forgiven, they still had to bear the consequences. David is a incredible example. So was Moses and Paul. Can a person do great works after such things Yes, absolutely! But there is a cost attached to it. Sometimes that may mean you do not get positions which under other circumstances you would.

    I think it does matter that one is forgiven and redeemed, but unless you die immediately and go to heaven you will still have to live with what you have done.
    I do not believe God wants us to try to further punish such a person with unfair acts, but as I said he is the one who mitigates how the consequences play out.

    Interesting comment from wikipedia: When God confronted Cain about Abel’s death, God cursed him, saying:

    “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.” (Gen. 4:10–12)[2]
    As an act of irony, the curse by God focused strictly on neutralizing the benefits of Cain’s primary skill, cultivating crops. When Cain complained that the curse was too strong, and that anyone who found him would kill him, God responded, “Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over”,[3] and God “set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him” (Gen. 4:15).

    The question I would ask is: Given the circumstances at hand, if you were over Jones, would you appoint him to a position of authority over youth and children thereby risking tearing your church apart because of the decision? And so soon after his law issues were over? Doesn’t restoration include a period of observation to prove one is indeed sincere and stable in their declaration of faith?

  13. If it were my decision, I would not have put the person in that particular position so soon after release from prison. In fact, 1 Timothy 5:22 says, “Never be in a hurry about appointing a church leader.” Some things are just common sense. I wouldn’t send a person who just overcame an addition to crack to a crack-house to minister to addicts. I try to place people in positions that will allow them the optimal chances of success. In a controlled environment like prison, it’s easy to fake piety. However, it’s a different story when a person has their liberty.

    COGIC is really betting the farm on the success of this experiment. If it works, then fine. If it doesn’t and someone gets hurt (which I pray doesn’t happen), it’s a lawyers dream come true (a known sex offender hired by COGIC hurts some woman or child under his oversight). Overnight COGIC could become NO-COGIC.

  14. In regards to the article about the appointment of a person that is on a sexual registry list should sound a clear and present danger for any such appointment to a position of authority within COGIC. I, myself cannot use biblical scripture or the teaching of God in this matter for I no longer apply such teachings to my life for various reason that I will not discuss. So for those of you that feel the need to discuss biblical teaching as it relates to the topic it is a mute point with me. However, using logic and reasoning application should be very simple. Absolutely, no one with the background of said subject should ever be in a position to victimize anyone ever again. Moreover, I do believe that we all deserve a second chance but not at the expense of our youth. If the said person deserves a second chance why not appoint to a position with far less authority and to a position where he can do some real good, like director of landscaping or facility maintenance.

  15. Well praise the Lord,my answer to this question is NO. MUST BE BLAMELESS.LETS NOT JUST PURE OUT ARE HEARTS ON THESE POST IT WAS NOT REVEAL FOR THAT IT WAS REVEAL THAT THOSE WHO LIVE IN THESE AREAS WILL TAKE A STAND AND CONFRONT THESE LEADERS TO PROTECT GOD CHILDREN SO GOD TELL THE BISHOP HIS FAULT, IF THAT DONT WORK TELL IT TO THE CHURCH (BODY OF CHRIST) NOT JUST COGIC THAT IS A DENOMINATION NOW IF THAT DONT WORK LET HIM BE A HEATHEN IN OTHER WORDS YOU ARE FREE TO GO TO THE MEDIA CBS,ABC,NBC,FOX,MSNBC,CNN, BUT BE FOR YOU TALK TO THE MEDIA. THE PRESIDING BISHOP SHOULD KNOW WHAT YOUR PLANS ARE THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN HANDLE WRONG THUS FAR. WE CAN TRULY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF WE DO THINGS THAT WILL GIVE GOD HONOUR AND NOT OURSELF THE IDEAL IS NOT TO DESTORY A DENOMINATION BUT TO PROTECT THE SAINTS OF GOD COGIC IS A TRUE HOLINESS CHURCH AND IT IS ARE (BLACK AMERICAN ROOTS) I JUST CAN NOT BELIEVE HOW WE LET SO MANY THINGS GO ON AND NOT TAKE A STAND. ELDER FOSTER IN SURE AND I KNOW THE LORD IS BLESSING YOU WITH THE INSIGHT AND YOU ARE BEENING FAITHFUL SHARING BUT NEVERTHELESS YOU ARE NOT SHARING THAT WE WILL TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS OVER DINNER,LUNCH,BREAKFAST, BUT THAT WE WILL DO SOMETHING FOR THE WELFARE OF THE PEOPLE OF GOD. THERE IS NO LIGHT IN DARKNESS BUT THE LIGHT SHINES IN DARKNESS

  16. My personal opinion: the sex offender list is the state. It is of the world. The body of Christ is not of the world. In many nations, being a Christian is not only illegal, but considered worse than being a sex pervert. This was the case with the early church, where Christianity was deemed to be illegal in a Roman Empire where sexual perversion was not only tolerated, but embraced and glorified in the culture. Many of the early converts to Christianity came out of that pagan culture where the abuse of minors as part of cult prostitution rituals was common. This is also the case in many pagan nations where cult prostitution is practiced today that have a lot of new Christian converts, with India coming to mind as an example. We can’t allow our modern western culture to set our standards. If we do, then we will have to start banning men from the pulpit who believe in what the Bible says about salvation only through Jesus Christ, justification by faith and not works, and homosexuality and fornication being a sin.

    So, if this man meets the Biblical qualifications for a bishop/pastor/teacher, then he should be allowed to hold the office. The issue, unfortunately, is the tendency to place people in the pulpit who don’t meet these qualifications whether they are registered sex offenders or not.

  17. If we do, then we will have to start banning men from the pulpit who believe in what the Bible says about salvation only through Jesus Christ, justification by faith and not works, and homosexuality and fornication being a sin.

    Job, that’s a good idea. In fact, they should be. If youre not for Christ why get up and pretend to speak for him? The qualifications (in 1 Tim 3) however should not be the SOLE rule of condition for leadership as there are other associated issues which come to bear in decisions like this.

  18. I completely agree with you my brother. God has forgiven anyone who has come to him in repentance. Man should do the same. Nonetheless, we are to be wise… and in all our getting, get understanding, right?

    Where are those two attributes if you hire someone to be around kids who is CURRENTLY on the list? BEEN on the list is a testimony. NOW on the list is a huge red flag. If you made that list, you need to note be the gambler going to Vegas “just for the buffet.”

    Feel me?

  19. Understand that leadership in the church cannot be taken lightly. The prominent requirement of a church leader is that he be above reproach (1 Timothy 3:2, 10; Titus 1:7). It is a difficult constraint, and not everyone can meet it.

    There are some sins (from your article, Pastor: “pleading no contest to two-year-old charges of attempted aggravated criminal sodomy and aggravated sexual battery”) that permanently shatter a man’s reputation and disqualify him from a ministry of leadership forever. Even the Apostle Paul, said he feared such a possibility. In 1 Corinthians 9:27 he tells, “I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.”

    When directing attention to his body, Paul obviously had sexual immorality in mind. In 1 Corinthians 6:18, he describes it as a sin against one’s own body. Sexual sin is in its own category. And it disqualifies a man from church leadership since he permanently forfeits a blameless reputation as a one-woman man (Proverbs 6:33; 1 Timothy 3:2).

    Love,
    Peter.

  20. People of God: No one who has been on a “SO” list or is on such a list should be placed in such a position that he or she has private or isolated contact with youth(s). I do not care how many times he or she cries at the altar about they being forgiven and how they are “beyond that.”
    You want the test of whether or not that person should be restored? Simple: allow that person to be with your child or children in repeated situations wherein they are alone with your child. Hmmm…I can feel via the Net, your trepidation and concerns. Now…how many brave Christians are saying…”It’s OK.
    I volunteer my five year old daughter or six year old son to be with him since I trust him completely?..
    That is odd. I do not see many hands going up in the air. Now, all of the liberal talk about he being saved and thus should be given a second chance is quickly evaporating. Wonder why?
    Answer: It is a matter of prudent judgment NOT to place this person in ANY ROLE that he has contact with children. All you need is one “Ooops…I backslid and….IT’S ON!
    Let common sense direct some issues in the church. This man has no business being anyone’s pastor. The person who appointed him and also Blake should be chastized for this foolishness.
    If I had minor children at this “church”, I would change my local
    fellowship. Why risk an “Ooops” moment to be seen as being
    too quick to “restore”. This man should have had enough sense to
    decline such an offer and the pastor enough sense not to offer
    such a position.
    If this person is kept out of ministry for a longer period of time or even for an indefinite person of time, so what? We have children at stake here…not simply some rush to get this guy into someone’s pulpit or in ministry. In the long term range of
    matters, that should be of little importance.

  21. This is off topic and you can delete it if you like, but please pay attention to Dale McAlpine, the British Baptist street preacher who was arrested for calling homosexuality a sin. And get this … he was arrested by a gay activist police officer. Witnesses state that the police officer’s claims against the preacher were false. America 20 years into the future?

    http://exministries.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/4721/

  22. Actually, I changed my mind. It isn’t off topic at all! 20 years from now, it is very possible that the world will hate people who believe in the Bible more than they hate child molesters. Especially since not a few homosexual activists – male and female – are lobbying for the right to abuse and corrupt minors. On the male side you have NAMBLA, and on the female side, you have this play whose name that I will not reveal but is commonly performed on stage and at college campuses where an adult lesbian gets a minor female drunk and then … well you know. (This scene often garners laughter and applause from the same audiences who would be rightfully filled with rage at the depiction of rape if it were depicting a male, whether adult or juvenile, doing the same thing to a female, whether adult or juvenile). Rudy Giuliani’s ex-wife actually “acted” in this play, and so did Kim Fields from “The Facts of Life”. So, I still say that today’s registered sex offender list is tomorrow’s list of preachers who adhere to a Biblical faith, because we may be headed into a society where sexual perversion is glorified while the Bible is overtly hated.

  23. Long time lurker- first time poster. What about avoiding the very appearance of evil? If a sound decision can’t be made on a situation as crystal clear as this, I would think that his judgement in other areas must also be pretty suspect. SMH

  24. Ok, Carmel first I gotta laff @ “long time lurker”. That just busted my gut! 🙂 The other part Im with you. It said [as a caution] to avoid any appearance of evil [wrongdoing].
    Maybe they dont think this is “evil”.

  25. Who said and how do we know he was appointed immediately after prison release? How do you know that this Bishop did not get Legal clearance from reputable, high ranking counsel? Who said his appointment had anything to do with contact with children,camp,or home visits as stated above? And like the poster said, you can be listed as SO even if it was consensual and you were a person of authority. This slandering reminds me of the Clarence Thomas inquiry. When a woman gets mad, she wields power and her wrath can destroy a man’s reputation and life. I am truly amazed that you all allow posts with people’s names without any facts to back it up, i.e. news report, court docs, etc. I don’t just mean a police report. I did some checking and found that this offense happened 12 years ago and he has been out of prison for over 7 years. Isn’t one supposed to be redeemed by the blood of Jesus? Isn’t there supposed to be no comdemnation in Christ? It is only the works of the enemy that brings up your past to enable his destruction. Do you know what AIM is? Who can prove that he was over children and women and just not a committee chair? I agree with everyone that says this smells foul and fishy. It is a setup alright, and this venue has allowed poisonous venom to flow from a snake whose head should be severed. If you were to take a statistical poll from every church, every denomination and affirmation, I believe that you would find aproximately 65% of the Pastors have served prison time. It is God who elevates and calls one (should be) into ministry and if you have a testimony and have been delivered, then should we not forgive just as Jesus forgave the woman that was about to be stoned? They said they caught her in the act, but they didn’t bring the man up on charges. I’m sure she wasn’t engaging by herself. But Jesus said, let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

    GCMW: [edited]

  26. If it were your child, parent, or yourself the view of whether one’s heart was changed and should be restored would be different. Even some of you commenting has had a family member steal from you or violate you in some way, who is now restored (be a crime or not). Jesus was said to have committed a crime too… against the Sabath (it was law you know). Who is the judge? really? this is the type of thing that is meant to be highlighted to draw us into more sin. Can say penalty by law makes one guilty… no; simply because the law has no room for grace or variables (bible). I got a ticket once and paid a fine and sentence to driving probation because I increased my speed above the limit to void a vehicle entering the highway, speeding into me. As I moved over to the second lane and increased my speed a police officer was adjacent in the third lane. He never saw the car on the ramp that I was avoiding… only me speeding. In court, I proved my case and the judge asked the officer “could this have been the case?” He said yes. After reviewing the facts, I was still found speeding. My insurance went up and I paid a penalty. The law is the law, and being free to understand things beyond the law is freedom. Don’t get caught up or it’ll be you in the test chair next.

  27. To all whom are SUPPOSED to be saved and filled with the Holy Ghost, GOD forgives all. What part of that do you not understand. GOD is and was a merciful and Loving GOD. Pastor Jones has paid his dues for something that he was charged with, but not acutally proven by no means. Sometimes in life you don’t have the proper means to be able to fight and prove your innocence. Why is so hard for fellow Christians to stop judging and let GOD take care of that. Ted Jones is not harmful to you or your children, I and my family see Ted Jones as a loving and very considerate individual and belives that GOD is his all and all.
    Who ever quoted 1 Corinthians 6:18 describes it as a sin against one’s own body. True but it does not say that, Sexual sin is in its own category. And it disqualifies a man from church leadership since he permanently forfeits a blameless reputation as a one-woman man. Also, (Proverbs 6:33; 1 Timothy 3:2), has nothing to do with it either. Do a little more research before condeming someone. God Bless you all.

  28. Lady E (sorry Lady D is already taken) your comment is not making sense if I can be honest with you. You seem to be arguing that

    1. the law is the law
    2. if someone breaks the law, they will suffer the penalty?

    That is true, but Im not sure if that is answering the question or not.

    And for your information Jesus committed no crime, broke no law and was 100% innocent of all FALSE CHARGES against him. So please do not impunge his grace with that comparison. Its a very bad one.

    So maybe you can clarify if you care.

  29. For God’s Child: the question is not about Ted Jones’ deliverance, but the decision of the bishop to put to install him as AIM Chairman. If you read the comments you would see that no one is attempting to make Ted Jones out to be anything other than what he is at the moment.

    I dont want to put words in your mouth but I gather that you think its okay to put a person who is currently on a sexual offender registry in a position of authority in the Lord’s church? Yes or no?

  30. I am not getting Lady E. You used a situation that bears no relation to the post. You had to alter your driving and it made it seem as if you were intentionally speading to the officer. How can what this man did be looked upon as an accident? we are talking about a man, a police officer forcing an inmate to have sex with him here, no breaking the speed limit unintentionally. Though lets use breaking the speed limit. If there is someone that has gotten their license revoked and been imprissoned due to habitually breaking the speed limit would you allow them to drive the Church bus after they got out of jail?

    It is not proven? did I miss something here.

    According to a leading Kansas City newspaper, In 2001, Leland Ted Jones former deputy at Wyandotte County (MO) jail was sentenced to 41 months in prison plus three years’ probation after pleading no contest to two-year-old charges of attempted aggravated criminal sodomy and aggravated sexual battery. His original charges were rape and aggravated criminal sodomy of a female prisone

    No Contest – The defendant does not dispute or contest the
    State’s evidence resulting in a finding of guilty by the court

    What does forgiveness have to do with someone being out in a leadership position. Didnt Saul lose the throne to David due to sin? Didnt Esau lose his bith right due to sin. Moses did not get to enter the promise land due to sin. Most of the Children of Israel didnt enter the promise land due to sin. Moses and David also didnt become leaders overnight.

    I also dont see where this man is being condemned. It is irresponsible to put a man in a leadership position as soon as he gets out of jail for such a crime. I see nothing in scripture that would support such an action in the least.

    One more thing, scripture tells us to obey the laws of the land and if not it is our fault if we get into trouble. Romans 13:1-5

    Gods grace, forgiveness and love do not equal a lack of wisdom.

  31. …lets talk about the current leaders that are well know Bishop, pastors, Min of Music and so forth, that is still allowed to serve in their positions with everyone knowing that they cheat on their spouses with other men and women. (How bout that) I dont know what kind of God ya’ll serve but i hope when i die, that I dont end up praising the same God that you are serving now. Because MY GOD is a forgiving GOD!!

    Should a person become a pastor, then elevated to the position of Superintindant, and not acknowledge, take care or Support his child… that he has OUTSIDE of his marriage. And until this day is still not doing a thing for his child.

    GCMW: NR I hope you are not a troll. Your “thou shalt not judge” diatribe was edited. And since that’s out of the way, feel free to tell who this Supt is. Maybe his bishop will discipline him for being a dead beat adulterous dad. You seem to know a lot of COGIC (?) leaders who are in sexual immorality. But it sounds like you are “judging” them for their faults, the very thing you accuse this blog of doing.

  32. To Paul N…. Here is my point. We don’t know anything unless we were there, however we assume what we read is the facts because he was unable to prove the point. I have a son who dated a woman (girl) and they both were under 18. When he became 18, their relationship continue another year or so. They had a baby (she was pregnant before he was 18). Neither side of parents said anything. A while after they broke up, he dated someone else. When he announced his engagement, the first girl’s parents became infused because he didn’t marry their daughter. The kids themselves said they didn’t want to get married. However, the parents filed charges and according to the facts, my son is now on the sex offenders list. Now, I told by a 6 year old girl that her father touched her repeatedly “down there”. I had the child removed from the home. The father pleaded that he had never done such a thing. He was being officially charged and another adult came forward from out of town where the girl was staying and said the girl told her that she didn’t like her father (step-father) and that she knew if she said he touched her that he would be punished. The child’s doctor review showed redness and irritation stating that she has been violated possibly with fingers. However, the girl’s mother was applying medication to the girl for another issue during that same time (in the female private area). My point is… just because you’re sentenced and the facts are written, it doesn’t mean you really know about that person and what happened. A person can say I’m not like that and live a life that matches but they’ll always be a criminal according to the record. The law has no grace for such, but we should in our sincere attempt to reach the truth and extend grace. Am I saying all sex offenders should be overseers in a church? No, but I’m saying all cannot be excluded simply because of the record you’re able to pull up. If your record were made public what would it show? Have you been perfect or just not caught?

  33. To GCMWatch… Jesus was not under the law… but the law was the law. Only those who were able to see beyond the law and understand Jesus’ point of fulfilling the law found him not guilty. It is we who believe by faith that understand this. However, the question posed to him to was, was it not against the law to work on the Sabbath? Jesus didn’t tell them that this was not the law but rather required them to look beyond that law and at the intent of keeping it Holy… in such intent, it would reasonable that any man would take care of a need such as eating, healing the sick, feeding the poor, etc… even when considered “work on the Sabbath”. Go beyond your natural mind (this is really my underlying message).

    GCMW: You may not have caught my hint. Pick another comment name. Lady D is already taken.

  34. Yes, I listen to my heart, and Let God be the Judge of all things. Regardless of the crime, a person can be delivered and saved. Should a man be persecuted for the rest of his life for something that happened long ago?
    GCMW: I dont understand, who’s “persecuting” whom? And you may need to do a bible study on judging. You may want to read this.

    What are we now the judges of man.
    GCMW: Again, who’s “judging” whom? This is a serious issue in the church and its public. Why is it you dont want anyone to say anything about it? That’s puzzling.

    Like I said before God forgave you and me and I am positive that he forgave Pastor Jones. You are right it is not about Pastor Jones, but about a position. If you feel that you are threatened by someone with a background you have your opinion but you can’t judge a man.
    GCMW: See above about judging.

    It’s like titheing would you give your 10 percent to a church that you know is not perfect? Yes, again that Church that you gave your tithe to will have to answer to God in the end. Just like Pastor Jones, he will have to answer to God in the end. God Bless you all Again.

  35. Lady E, I dont see any comparison in the stories at all but that the law can be harsh against people who are not sex offenders. this Pastor is a sex offender according to his plea.

    What we have is an officer of the law having sex with an inmate, now that is wrong on all levels. That shows a serious lack of self control even if it was not assault. If you then add assualt to it it is sickening. If you say that the inmate is lying so be it, the man shouldnt have not pleaded no contest. Another thing is, the only people who truly knew what happened are him and the inmate, so how do you know what he is saying is true?

    I have both sinned and got caught and sinned and didnt get caught. I have however come to a point that if I am ever in leadership and sin in such a manner I will step down. Also If I was in this position I would turn down such an offer to be a leader and question the Pastor who offered me the position.

    I am not saying this man couldnt one day be a leader and that he isnt genuine in his repentance but that should be seen with time.

    Can you show me a scripture as far as new testament leadership that would make this seem like a good idea?

  36. no registered sex offender should not be appointed to any positions, if the sex offender was remorseful and truely saved then he or she would not even try to get such positions.
    PLEASE PASTORS, pray and get to know your members especially candidates for church positions. my pastor had to removed a new member who was a talented musician because of his misconduct and criminal theft of church property.

    COGIC leaders need to reevaluate and review the leadership of bishop blake, this man is very silent on many sinful issues affecting the church and this country. he has not challenged or questioned the actions of our pro homosexual president obama who has sign many bills and executive orders supporting the homosexual agenda, yet obama has ignored many issues affecting the black community. bishop blake has shown cowardly leadership.

  37. Here is the problem with the “Registered Sex Offender” issue.

    If an 18 year old boy (legally an adult) has sex with a 17 year old girl (legally a minor) the parents of the girl can press charges for statutory rape even if she willfully had sex with him.

    The consequence is the 18 year can go to prison and thereafter be a “Registered Sex Offender.”

    This is NO hypothetical scenario. I know of someone who is in this very situation who became a Christian after the incident and incarceration.

    Clearly his fornicating was a sin for which he is forgiven, but should he be put in the same classification as a child molester or a rapist?

    Should this event prevent him from being ordained even though he is now married and is an exemplary husband in the church?

    I don’t think so but according to Megan’s Law he is in the same social status as the others.

    Erik

  38. Yeah Eric I guess my suggestion to people who think the law is unfair (as with any law) is to work hard to change it. I know several people have brought up scenarios (like the 18 year old) but the man mentioned wasnt in that category by far. He was a law enforcement official who raped an inmate.

    You can go straight to heaven with your name on the SO list, but the church should exercise due wisdom in these matters. As Ive said before (which I guess I need to reinterate again) sin is one thing, crime is another and they are not always automatically interchangeable. If a person commits a crime, God will forgive them, but the state doesnt operate that way. Is the state wrong to keep Jones name on the SO list even after he has been forgiven for his sins? If neither he nor his church can change that, why is the blame being hurled at me for asking if this was a good decision for the church? And apparently quite a number of Jones’ fellow pastors dont feel it was a good decision either.

  39. The story aboaut the 18 year old on the sex offender list is highly suspect. Consent, and age at the time are variables but I don’t know a state that has 18 years as the legal age of consent. THis issue is not whether or not you were a minor but whether you can give connsent and one year’s difference between a 17 year old and 18 year old does not meet the standard for prosecution. (I work in the field) What state was this? Perhaps it is when the relationship began. That whole story is not told.

    RE: the subject at hand; The man in question according to the scripture must have a good reputaion within and outside of the church. He fails in that regard. He abused his power given to him by the state and was found guilty of rape. Abuse of power is a major concern of those who have authority in the church; “Not lording over the flock of GOD…”
    He can still preach, evangeleize and do many wonderful things for the Lord, Is he hindered in any way form fulfilling his call as a minister. Being the head shepherd is a questionable thing as long as the gov’t finds him a threat enough to society to hold him accountable and post his info on a website. Is he a level 3 offender?: “Likely to reoffend?” If so he should certainly not be in the pastorate. Will COGIC hold him to full disclosure? Will he tell families of his status? His sin may be under the blood the consequences of our sin may last for a lifetime. DID the bishop interview his family, wife (is he married? How many times? Are his neighbors comfortable with him. Appointing him pastor may have had some detrimental outcome for the church at large.
    BTW If COGIC believes the man is unjustly listed they can use their coffers to overturn it before they appoint him as pastor.
    @ GOD’S CHILD: Why not try to make a point from scripture with a semblance of balance? PLEASE. The issuse is not what I have have done or my relatives etc. Or whter my sins were forgiven or not. THAT is not at issue forgiveness and being fit for leadership are two different things. Would you put your child in a day care where the proprietor was a convicted child molester (if they could get a lisence?) Why not they are forgiven by GOD? I HAVE A brother who is on the sex offender’s list and I am YET of the same opinion. Truth and it’s correct application is not relative.
    YOu have taken scriptures isolated from the counsel of texts on qualifications for those who would be Bishops, elders and deacons. Go and learn what they say.

    Sorry, GCMW; sometimes the level of biblical ignorance amonsgt the saved and filled with the Holy “Ghost” enrages me.

  40. Let us get one thing straight. The Bishop, nor the COGIC appointed Jones as a Pastor. He was already a Pastor and had been for several years. His testimony has gone forth and his congregation all know his background. His installation represented him joining COGIC fellowship as he was non-denominational. He sought a covering and a leader to mentor and help guide him. People start ministries everyday whether they are called, chosen, or just desire to do so. No one has to appoint someone to Pastor. Drive up and down some streets where there are about 5 storefront ministries located within 1 block. Also, whomever posted this, lied. There are NO churches pulling out of the jurisdiction nor voiced any opposition. Pastor Jones is not in any Jurisdictional leadership position.

  41. Giant, what’s your real problem? According to you, everybody is lying. Nobody is telling the truth about anything. So again, what’s your real beef?

  42. My “beef” is that this is an attack on the Bishop,

    GCMW: And what is your relationship to all of this? In other words, who are you? If you are so convinced as to the credibility of the invective you write below, please share your name and your relationship to this story. Are you speaking in an official capacity or just blowing off steam? Are you speaking for the bishop or not? Its difficult to believe some random individual would be so heavily invested in the matter. After we get that information, I will be most happy to engage you further. Until you provide that information, I ask that you refrain from posting.

    not the pastors mentioned. Your so-called source in Kansas City is sowing seeds of discord. Again, Pastor Vaughn was already a Pastor with a thriving church who was installed into the COGIC jurisdiction and denomination. His installation took place on March 20th, not the 27th, and he was in a meeting that I attended on the 17th and 18th, not in detention as stated. What year was that? be specific. My so-called “beef” is that you post things with their names and have nothing to back it up with.

    You lied when you said as of posting Bishop Douglas was contacted and did not respond. He knew nothing of this until this seed planted was sent to some of us in the jurisdiction via email to stir things up. Again, there is not one church livid or wishing to leave the jurisdiction.

    I know who is behind this and why. Ask your source about their jail time and background. The church they pastor and why no one wants to follow their leadership because said person is still operating under a faulty spirit.

    My “beef” is that this is supposed the Gay Watch and you are tearing down a man of God who serves this community and God faithfully. He has a cabinet of advisors who have input on all of the aforementioned decisions. He has background checks performed on every leader, demands fiscal openess with documented financial records, and some with their hands in the till don’t like be held accountable. Let’s move on to something else because their is no story here. We just came out of a week long of services and the all of the churchs represented with their attendance. He did not just replace Pastor Jones after your posting, Pastor Jones was not over AIM when this issue was posted, it just had not been updated on site. He was no longer chairing the committee in March. So, again, I too am in Kansas City, in the jurisdiction in question, and I support the Bishop, and yes I have children in the church as well. The bible says “it is a good thing to desire the office of Bishop”, but you see, everyone that wants the position is not elected and elevated. Bishop Douglas may have been installed by Bishop Blake, but he was first selected and elected (voted in ) by his fellow peers ( Pastors in Jurisdiction only ), so that must count for something that these men trust his leadership.

  43. ^the wyandotte county sheriff website says that Jackie Cortez Vaughn was put in jail on the 17th and released on the 18th..

  44. thanks Djenk the information is 100% accessible to the public. It also states $500 was paid I assume for bond. Any person could go the county’s official website and verify the information. I did so Im not sure where all the accusations of “lying” are coming from.

  45. I would like to know how the article attacked that bishop? The question asked was if SO should hold church office. I thought the writer presented public information to support their story. From what it sounds, the man is not in that position no more. The one person who said that the man was out of the position prior to this story, I have a question. If the move was unrelated to this article, then what was it related to? Did that bishop just find out about the man’s past? If that was the case, then it goes against what you said about him doing these background checks and stuff.

    If this new guy they put in has criminal record, then it just makes you question the leader who is appointing these people. From what I am reading, the bishop is bringing these guys into his jurisdiction. You say they were already pastors. If that is the case, then the bishop need to be careful with who he take in and who he place in certain position. That is all up to him. We all have sinned, so nobody can throw dirt on anyone but the church need leaders who are above reproach. is that too much to ask?

  46. “We all have sinned, so nobody can throw dirt on anyone but the church need leaders who are above reproach. is that too much to ask?

    Cali4ya, its as simple as that.

  47. Bishop Douglas has not addressed this to our jurisdiction yet. Why? Shouldn’t he be taking up for these men of God? Shouldn’t he want the jurisdiction to not worry about this? Maybe, Just maybe he is trying to protect himself. I mean is the chain and ring and purple shirt that he received with 4 votes if you count his own and some borrowed money mean that much to you were u won’t stand up for the appointments you made? I wonder do these pastors need Bishop Douglas or is that he need these Pastors? Is it that these Pastors have done more for this jurisdiction to bring it up then the Bishop has done since he has been in office even with there past! Giant-slayer says he knows who the source is and maybe his background needs to be stated… how is it that he THINKS he knows and no one else dose? Maybe it is because there are churches upset with leadership some more than others… Also maybe someone needs to get some work history on the Bishop…Maybe we need to find out what happens in his office…Maybe we should talk about how we save churches with Signatures… I do not believe the 2 Pastors are the issues i believe there so called leader is… I don’t believe the jurisdiction is the problem because there are good Leaders in it but they only can do so much with a Bishop such as this. This will probably not be a popular comment but it is my opinion and that’s it.

  48. Paul Carter, personally I think this epidemic of leaders who cant seem to make GODLY decisions is killing the church. Why is this something we should lay down and accept? There is too much at stake to stay quiet.

    Given the circumstances, this is a legitimate concern for the church. Im sure it wont be the last time we will have to call attention to it.

  49. Paul,

    Tell us how you really feel. Lol. You make good points. I think the bishop and the pastors need each other. They should be working together. Gone are the days of appointing people to these positions and there be seemingly no vetting process. Character counts for something. We want it everywhere else except in the church. Let’s hold the teachers responsible for our kids. We want the boss at the job to have some integrity. Even expect the salesman at the car dealer to be honest.

    Then, we get to the church and just lay down and turn blind eyes to who is in leadership. The church needs good leaders or the bad ones (and this isn’t an indictment on the bishop nor those two elders) will take over and lead the church (those who’ll follow) down the wrong path.

    What do you mean when you say “save churches with signatures”?

  50. Hmmmm.

    Madness.

    Shouldn’t you give people time to prove themselves before giving them positions of leadership? Or in this case a position of authority that would put the person in contact with potential victims?

  51. There is no Wyandotte County in Missouri. There is just the one in Kansas (which shares a Unified Government with Kansas City, Kansas) and a “Wyandot County” in Ohio. No other state has any variant of that name for a county. When an article gets basic facts like this wrong, it makes me wonder what else is wrong.

    GCMW: This is neither basic, significant or erroneous to associate Wyandotte County with MO jurisdiction. Wyandotte County forms part of the Kansas City Metropolitan Area, thus the “unified government”. The specific location of the county is in Kansas, but that changes little to nothing about the facts of the rape case and its verdict.
    The facts are that the individual listed was employed by, committed the crime in and processed by Wyandotte County law enforcement.

  52. GCMW: This is neither basic, significant or erroneous to associate Wyandotte County with MO jurisdiction.

    We can argue as to whether it is significant, but it is clearly a basic fact that Wyandotte County isn’t in Missouri, and it’s as erroneous to say that it is as it would be to claim that a crime committed at a NY Giants game in East Rutherford, NJ had in fact been in NY state. If I read a story that describes Bergen County as being in NY, it tells me that the journalist did a sloppy job.

    Wyandotte County forms part of the Kansas City Metropolitan Area, thus the “unified government”.
    Doubling down on the errors. It is a Unified Government of Wyandotte County and Kansas City, KS. The KCMSA covers counties in both KS and MO but the UG is a creation of the KS legislature, and has no authority over MO.

    That you feel comfortable just spouting this theory of how our government works, without doing any research at all, indicates that you cannot distinguish between speculation and established fact. That’s strike two against your journalistic ethics. You can still admit you were wrong, and correct the original article’s error, or you can dig in your heels further and insist that getting basic facts right isn’t important.

    The truth shall set you free.

  53. Wow, how stunning. Youve scored one monster of a gotcha. A journalist did a sloppy job. What a profound revelation. Now, since you’ve unearthed that unforgiveable breach of the public trust, ethics and (gasp!) journalistic integrity , what’s next? Why dont you put all that intel prowess to work and help find Bin Ladin? Im sure that would bring you great satisfaction.

    Do you have any legitimate objections about the article we can discuss?

  54. One day as I was walking home, I saw a woman get out of her car with a couple bags of groceries. I could see through the window that, on the back seat, there was a baby in a car seat.
    As the woman was taking the bags to her front porch to set them down, the car began to move. The street that we were on had a slight slope to it; thus the car descended downward. I saw the woman scream and drop her bags, chasing after the car. And what I heard her scream was, “My car, my car!!”

    Complete fiction to emphasize a point.

    Pastor Foster, forget those who focus on the trivial details of this story. The purpose of it has been grasped by those who know what the true battle is, and it ain’t a lesson in geography.

    I can understand someone pointing out what could have possibly been a geographical error; there’s no fault in that. However, the emphasis on that puts the heart of the story on life support and instead focuses on something that isn’t as critical.

  55. To you the author. “Pastor” Daryl Foster. I know who you are and your past.
    GCMW: So do millions of other people. I put it in a book so that’s not really news. And thankfully we’ve reached the end of your rather unexceptional run of comments here.

  56. GiantSlayer, seriously? Pastor Foster has given his testimony and we praise God for him. We thank God that he would raise up such a man for a time like this to lead Gods people and help those who struggle with homosexuality and make the church aware of the gcm agenda.

    Paul said he was the cheif sinner and the least of the apostles because he persecuted the church, but God used him greater than all the other apostles. However he studied to show himself approved before going into his ministry.

    We have all come from out of sin. No claim has been made that this man cannot be a leader but that he shouldnt come straight out of prison and lead Gods people, thats simpe wisdom and you have no scripture to the contrary. Its a simple as that. He is forgiven and we thank God for that but he should prove himself as faithful over time.

    I am so ashamed!

  57. Friend GiantSlayer,

    When I read the bk of Job, many of us at times forget, that what most of his (3) friends said, were true, but they were instigated at the wrong person and for the wrong reason. I haven’t always agreed w/certain individuals, but I know theres a way to confront and disarm them, and cause them to look at there true intent, or should I say themselves, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I haven’t always agreed w/Pastor and we’ve spoken over our disagreements, he has his point, I have mine, none of us are always going to agree, truth be told. But I do know one thing, that he means well, yes we all can be at times alittle over zealous, once again truth be told. One cannot help another rise up, when you submit to that, which you claim them to be acting like. I’m reminded of the scripture in Hebrews, “And let us provoke each other unto love, and good works”, yes there are things we need to get w/each other about, but there is a way to go about it.

    Now pastor posted your comment, which means he has nothing to hide or be alarmed about, he has already disarmed you. I can only say to pastor, to feel not the need to defend himself, for when we get caught up in the defending process, all types of other things arise, I will simply say allow your devotion and love for the Lord to shine through. Christ never defended himself, he simply said, when being questioned by the sanhedrin was, “Qestion others, they know what I’ve said.” And friend GiantSlayer, and I mean that w/true intent, not mockingly, if you ever consider a person an enemy, or show them there error, never fight them upon ground of there choosing, fight them upon ground of your own choosing. The intent should always be the betterment of the brother/brethren, never venting displeasures, because there going to always be.

  58. @giantslayer….WOW, are you sure you are not Leland Ted Jones…seems like this article has really “struck-a-personal-nerve” with you. My my my, it’s ok to disagree, but sheesh, you’ve come out growliing like a wild animal backed into a corner trying to “defend” it’s territory…SELAH!

  59. GS, the nameless faceless giantslayer individual represents a faction of religious peacocks that think the ONLY way you end up if you leave their denomination is “bitter, satanic and full of vengeance”. After all, I too was indoctrinated to excoriate people who left. So, its an understandable response to the leadership sins we’ve documented here.

    Back to the topic at hand…

  60. This post’s focus was not necessarily on the redemption of the Ted Jones, but the wisdom of putting him in such a position. Although an unidentified person claims this post had nothing to do with it, Jones has been removed from the office.
    With that, we are closing the post to comments.

Comments are closed.