Blog News and Views, Volume I: deception, therapy and the UPPC

Some of the more noteworthy entries from GCM Watch blog partners this Friday deserve a read.

The Dunamis Word blog takes a look at the doctrine of the homosexual denomination United Progressive Pentecostal Church based in Atlanta. In his post “When progress takes you to hell“, Pastor Burnett writes

Obviously even gay folk can pimp congregations. In this organization, the chief apostate has the ability to change what he wants to change within this church at any time. Here is the statement that affirms such directly from their web site listed below:
“While the leaders and founding members of UPPC are adamant about connecting the Body of Christ in progressively minded fellowship, without the rigors and mandates of a reformation, there remain some uniting principles that guard our fellowship from heresy and hypocrisy.  These tenants from our Basis of Union, and are non-negotiable throughout our Covenant Connections. Should our Basis of Union come into question for amendment, it can only be changed as a result of an Apostolic Conclave or by the sovereign will of the Founder and Chief Apostle, Oliver Clyde Allen III.”

Did you read the words heresy and hypocrisy??? You mean to tell me that they don’t believe that encouraging same gender unity is a heresy? They don’t believe that tucking a bible under their arm after being in an illegal and illicit and biblically condemned relationship is hypocrisy?

The UPPC apes pentecostalism, biblical titles and tithes, but somehow finds it “heretical” go against its swiss cheese “Basis of Union” which includes having sex with people of the same gender. Read the whole story

One of my favorite blogs Journal of a Battling Christian reviews one of the debilitating philosphies  of our age and how it affects organizations like Exodus International who promote reparative therapy.  His post “The Century of The Self, Freud and Reparative Therapy” shows how self-centered ideology can come to no good when dealing with homosexuality.

I’ve sort of gone back and forth in my mind in regards to Exodus International. On the one hand I am in support of their desire to minister to Christians who have unwanted same sex attractions and to help people come out of the “Gay lifestyle” (for the lack of a better term).

On the other hand I am in total disagreement with their support and avocation of Reparative Therapy, Freudian psychology and so forth. For an alternative viewpoint on the issue and for a more Biblical approach to counseling I highly recommend reading Richard Ganz’ book Psychobabble and Jay Adams’ book Competent to Counsel.

I consider myself therefore to be a “sympathetic critic” of groups such as Exodus International and Focus on the Family. I do not critique them in order to discourage them in their efforts, rather as a theologian and Christian I want to seek to encourage them to rethink some of their ideas, methods and practices so that they might become more thoroughly Biblical in their approach.

I too am an opponent of reparative (or conversion) therapy. For Exodus to continue partnering with this unbiblical approach is damaging to their cause and is creating a chorus of voices who see overcoming homosexuality as something they can pay to get done on a therapist’s couch. When it fails (which it will) they are angry, bitter and vocal. Read the whole story

Speaking of deception, Sola Dei Gloria writes a good peice on what causes deception. No doubt about it, deception is running rampant not just in the world (ponzi schemes, etc) but in the church as well. Its everywhere and some people want to keep our attention on unimportant things while the spiritual crooks keep up their attacks on the vunerable and ignorant. But are those deceived really innocent?

“What causes deception? We like to believe that people lying to those they deceive cause deception. However, if we think critically about that (yes, I know that post-modernists have lost that ability, but humor me) deception is not the direct result of the lie, but is only takes effect when the one being deceived desires something from the deceiver such as a relationship or something else that is offered. The deceived believe the lie in order to receive something else that they want.”

Sure there are deceivers, deceiving spirits, wolves, false teachers,  and the likes prowling the church in search of victims, but you dont have to be one. Here’s some  excellent teaching on how to protect yourself from deception.


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16 thoughts on “Blog News and Views, Volume I: deception, therapy and the UPPC

  1. To Pastor Foster:

    The Bible is so subjective…what it says on the surface doesn’t mean that’s what the original author intended..and if it is or isn’t…is at times difficult to prove or dissaprove.

    This is all really about “interpretation” and all anyone has to do is complete a close examination of the scriptures in their purest form; seek some guidance from scholars and historians and one will soon realize there is not a “unified” stance on the issue of homosexuality…there are varying degrees of beliefs and interpreations from everyone in the Christian Kingdom..and the majority of them are heterosexual Bishops, Pastors, Theologians, Scholars and Historians…..and just plain ol’ common sense…my grandmother never graduated High School; couldn’t read the Bible in its entirety but knew God more than anyone I knew…but even she had enough wisdom to know that “we will understand things better by and by”….

    To the read the Bible and take it at his word is dangerous..search the scriptures…..just don’t rely on a particular version/interpretation of ancient scripture….study..research…read….

    Its not all black and white….Christians are so afraid to challenge their “thinking” because it challenges “their faith”..so they rather stay blind and to those of us whose “eyes” have been open to the truth..we are “heretical” ……in the end..”truth” will prevail….because..

    “you don’t know whether am I right or wrong…search me Lord”….

    We can all agree that in that in the end God will be the judge…so continue on…blogging, debating, educating, warning…do as the Lord has called you to do….but never think your “truth” is the final “truth”….in the end we shall know “truth”…in the end..all will be revealed…in the end we won’t see through a glass darkly but it will be clear….in the end what ever knowledge we have; is only “part” of the truth..we won’t know the whole truth until Jesus returns….

    so carry on Foster….and so will I, so will Bishop Allen…so will Pastor Anthony Williams (Tonex), so will Supt. Barnett…so will your followers…so will those who disagree with you….

    Thank you for doing it in Love…lets all carry on..in Love…

  2. People who try to interpret God’s word with sinful motives are the problem mark, not God’s Word.
    Anytime you have a unpure motive you will approach the text as a tool to prove your point rather than accepting what it says and then conforming your view to it.
    If you miss this critical point, you will always see God’s word as flawed and subjective. Unfortunately to your own detriment.

  3. I’m still tripping on this progressive thing. Man Satan really knows how to con people and they fall for it everytime. These people are not studying and praying at all. They are constantly looking for the new thing. I was watching TBN last nite and there was a guy on there with some new movie where he was apologizing to homosexuals at one of their gay party events. I guess now all Christians will be apologizing to homosexuals because they say we don’t love them. The thing is, is that we love you we just don’t except your lifestyle and to not accept ones lifestyle doesn’t mean we hate them. We are not supposed to apologize to anyone who willfully practices sin just to make them feel good. That is not being judgmental it’s just knowing what God will and will not accept if you’re his child and He is not going to accept someone who continually practices sin and throws it in His face because he hates sin. When we sin we are supposed to acknowledge it, not blame someone else for it and repent of it.

  4. Why do people always want to cast doubt on whether the Bible condones homosexuality but never talk about intrepretation on rape, murder, lying, stealing, etc.?

  5. Mercedes, you practiclly took the words right out of my mouth. I was just thinking to myself that these people dont take issue with the bibical prohibitions against adultery or incest… so why is it that they want to find all kinds of loopholes regarding homosexuality?
    I guess the answer is obvious. People will only challenge and find fault with the verses in the Bible they don’t want to obey.

  6. Mercedes I can answer that question perfectly. Because the Anti-Christ who will rule the world (temporarily) we be a homosexual, satan is just setting the stage, that is why there are so many homosexuals in leadership position now. It is in the book of Daniel.

    To “markofreason”

    Many intellects and atheists try to play the gotcha game with Scripture. The only problem is you can’t intellectually understand the Bible because it is a spiritual book. If God doesn’t choose to open your eyes to the Living Word all your going to get is text and foolish arguments.

    There are not multiple interpretations to homosexuality in the Bible divided between multiple scholarly peoples. One Camp says it is a sin (God’s children), the other camp justifies it (satan’s children). Simple enough.

    What eye is “markofreason” talking about? The third eye?

    We do know the whole truth and exactly how we are to live our lives, because it is written in the Bible. We don’t need to wait for Judgment Day, then it will be too late…..

  7. mercedes, Im glad you picked up on that because we see that here from detractors all the time.

    I would say it is an old, very old tactic introduced by our enemy.
    The FIRST recorded words of satan in scripture is this:

    Gen 3: 1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
    2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.

    4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

    Casting doubt on the validity and legitimacy of God’s Word is the heart of his strategy against us. Both outside and inside the church, the devil works to impugn the word of God and he has done so since the beginning.

  8. Its not casting doubt on God and his message to his people..its casting doubt on the various translation that exist today….i.e. NIV..for example..is so out of step from the original version until it’s scary that anyone really reads it or regards it as legimate.

    Let’s be clear…I have never posted that the Bible doesn’t say homosexuality is a sin. I have simply stated the various views of different religious groups or organizations and me personally I see where they are coming from….

    Nevertheless, all the Bibles I have read english does indicate that homosexuality is a sin. I just don’t know based upon my studies that everything written in these english Bibles line up word for word with the original Torah or any of the letters from Bible or the original Gospels…and I know I’m not alone in this….

    Forgive me for being educated and a history buff….I see no problem in searching scripture….seeking the truth…and using the brains that God has given me to draw rational conclusions rather than just conlcusion based upon english translation of the scripture…

    If any of you were to read the publishers page of your Bibles you would cleary see that the book you are about to read is a “translation”…and wriiten in english to the best of that authors/translators knowledge, skills or interpretation….

    That’s all im saying….I think we need to at least listen to all points of views…and learn to communicate and not judge….

    just saying…have a good week!

  9. Mark Im a little confused. If you believe homosexuality is a sin, then what’s the beef? All the translations say it is a sin too. So what’s your problem with the translations and homosexuality? You said the bible is “subjective”.

    Here’s all the definitions of the word.
    1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought ( opposed to objective).
    2. pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.
    3. placing excessive emphasis on one’s own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric.
    4. Philosophy . relating to or of the nature of an object as it is known in the mind as distinct from a thing in itself.
    5. relating to properties or specific conditions of the mind as distinguished from general or universal experience.
    6. pertaining to the subject or substance in which attributes inhere; essential.

    If a tree has red apples on it and I say that it has green apples on it does that make the tree subjective or my perspective? And if we cannot trust the tree with what is on it, what instrument of judgment do we use? If the bible is not a reliable source, then what source are we to use?

    I will say that not every translation is useable. There are quite a few that I would never touch like this one
    , but you seem to suggest that all translations are suspect of error to the point of invalidity, which is simply not true.

    To say that the bible is subjective is indeed to cast doubt on its accuracy thus its authority.

  10. Pastor Foster

    Incorrect. I never stated what I believe. My statement was the Bible in English translation does state that homosexuality is sin. That was my statement. What I believe is irrelvent really…so is what you or anyone else believe.

    All translations are suspect simply because they are “translations”….get my point?…The Torah or not any of the Gospels or the letters of Paul were written in English….

    All I am saying..is that men/scholars/translators have not always done a great job in translating from the original language to English…there was a lot of “educational guesses”.

    Again, if you read the publishers page of the Bible they admit that when it was difficult or impossible to translate a word from its original to English..that an English word was used based upon their own “interpretation” or “contents of the scriptures”..

    For example:
    The original Sodom story did not mention anything about “sex” or “homosexuals”.
    The original letters of Paul didn’t not mention “men who have sex with men” or “effiminate” men or “homosexuals” in his letter to Corinthians. The words effeminate” and “homosexual” were recently added in the 19th Century. The original words used directly translate into English as “weak, soft, tender, sensitive, delicate” and “man, bed, couch”….these words could mean anything…why should anyone automatically take those words and flip them to what we now printed in the Bible?….
    The original Levitical Law..18:22 is “V’et zachar lo tishkav mishk’vei ishah to’evah hu”…when translated into English reads “And with a male thou shalt not lie down in beds of a woman; it is an abomination.”
    Notice the distinction..”beds of a woman” very different from “as with a woman”….history tells that in that culture..husband and wife had seperate beds…when a woman had a monthly issue with her blood..she was considered unclean and had to sleep in what was called the “woman’s bed”…her and the “bed” was considered “unclean” and she or the bed could not be touch…the same thing occured when the woman was pregnant…also..each wife had their own seperate bed..the “marriage bed” was only occupied when “sex” was to occur; of course when it was proper for it to occur-……so yes it can be argued that in direct translation the scripture in Leviticus is really indicating the “location” of the sex being the forbidden or abominable part..not what occurs between the males….at least this the concept on the other side of the debate..and in my opinon..its a good point….but then again..no one is really able to translates those ancient words from their original to English in 100$ accuracy.

    Of course…again…it doesn’t make sense to some poeple to translate Lev. 18:22 into what is stated above..so change a few words…so what?…apples and oranges…according to you…

    Well, to those of us who have a deep respect for the original text…it does mean something…give it to us word for word…stop adding..changing..twisting..

    just saying…

  11. markofreason said:

    Its not casting doubt on God and his message to his people..its casting doubt on the various translation that exist today….i.e. NIV..for example..is so out of step from the original version until it’s scary that anyone really reads it or regards it as legimate.

    Let’s be clear…I have never posted that the Bible doesn’t say homosexuality is a sin. I have simply stated the various views of different religious groups or organizations and me personally I see where they are coming from….

    Nevertheless, all the Bibles I have read english does indicate that homosexuality is a sin. I just don’t know based upon my studies that everything written in these english Bibles line up word for word with the original Torah or any of the letters from Bible or the original Gospels…and I know I’m not alone in this….

    Forgive me for being educated and a history buff….I see no problem in searching scripture….seeking the truth…and using the brains that God has given me to draw rational conclusions rather than just conlcusion based upon english translation of the scripture…
    =====
    Mark, every English translation available also makes it clear that adultery, bestiality, and incest are sins. (Interestingly, I’ve never heard a single “gay Christian” dispute that.)
    So do you have an issue with those prohibitions too, or just the one against homosexuality?

    And if you have no problem stating that adultery, bestiality and incest are sin (without quibbling regarding “translations”, the original writings, what’s in the torah,etc. )… then why focus all this microscopic attention on what the Bible says about homosexuality? Frankly, it makes one wonder if perhaps you’re just looking for a loophole to justify something the Bible clearly states is sin.

  12. “What I believe is irrelvent really…so is what you or anyone else believe.”

    That cant be true, if it were, you would not be on this blog arguing what you believe to be true. If it is true, I do not expect to see any more irrelevant posts from you.

  13. Well, to those of us who have a deep respect for the original text…it does mean something…give it to us word for word…stop adding..changing..twisting..

    This is an ignorant coment to say the lest. Furthermore, he is doing what all apostates do – question the eternal Truths of scripture by getting others to think the texts are, as he clearly stated from the begining, subjective. I may remind Mr.Markofreason God held men responsible for thier sin long before “it was wriiten in stone” and God’s hand as always been involved in history, including the canonization. Man does not need a law against same sex sexual relationships to know it is wrong.

  14. “God held men responsible for thier sin long before “it was wriiten in stone”

    Now, that will preach right there!

  15. Markofreason We are all given free will. So yes you can read every book ever written, accumulate countless master degrees, Ph Ds, respect original text and study all knowledge available out there. However, you must understand that Satan is the Father of lies and confusion and thats why it’s hard for folks like yourself to discern truth from “mis-translations”. When you are in a TRUE relationship with Jesus Christ, He will provide you understanding when reading His Word. That’s why it is really important to ask God for understanding when reading His word and also to truly believe in Him. The devil’s motive is to water down God’s word so we can believe all his nonsense. Don’t fall for it. Abandon false doctrines, Repent and find Christ, time is running out. God bless you. In Jesus name, Amen.

  16. markofreason said:
    The original Sodom story did not mention anything about “sex” or “homosexuals”.

    That is absolutely incorrect. After I carefully just researched the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Hebrew, the men of Sodom most certainly did want to have sex with the angels disguised as men. That’s why Lot offered up his daughters and told them they were virgins. If sex wasn’t on the agenda Lot wouldn’t have need of mentioning them being virgins. The men of Sodom rejected the women because they wanted to have homosexual sex.

    markofreason said: The original letters of Paul didn’t not mention “men who have sex with men” or “effiminate” men or “homosexuals” in his letter to Corinthians. The words effeminate” and “homosexual” were recently added in the 19th Century. The original words used directly translate into English as “weak, soft, tender, sensitive, delicate” and “man, bed, couch”….these words could mean anything…why should anyone automatically take those words and flip them to what we now printed in the Bible?….

    You wrong here too. The words in Greek are perfectly interpreted to condemn the sins of homosexuality and effeminate by perversion. 1Cor 6:9
    According to my Strong’s the words are identified as malakoi (G3120) and arsenokoitai (G733,G2845)
    Malakoi means effeminate also or did you purposefully exclude that word to fit your meaning of what you want the Bible to say?

    Arsenokoitai (a Greek word) means a sodomite translated directly from Hebrew and a defiler (sexually) of themselves with mankind.
    Koite (G2749) also mean conceive and cohabitation so it is addressing sexual behavior.

    Anything else I can help you with let me know.

    Exodus 15:3

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