National Quartet Convention to include progay Rambos

LOUISVILLE, Ky – This is another sad and negative reflection on the southern gospel music industry. A 100 year celebration may have some sour notes.

The National Quarter Convention, billed as Gospel Music’s  largest annual event is featuring Dony McGuire and Reba Rambo McGuire, the Nashville pastors who support the specious inclusion doctrine and homosexuality. In May 2008, following the tragic death of southern gospel music luminary Dottie Rambo, GCM Watch broke the story when a gay christian wrote the following on a progay message board:

The most moving and beautiful things at this conference was Saturday night, when Dony McGuire and Reba Rambo invited all the pastors of gay churches that were there, to come up on the stage, remove their shoes and he and his wife, personally washed their feet apologizing for the years he and his wife, and the Christian church at large had thrown stones , maligned God’s work in Gay churches, and had excluded and thrown out these pastors and their congregations. He and Reba wept as they washed and kissed the feet of these pastors. He said that over the past year, his church has gone through some tough times because he has invited gay people to come in and welcomed them. Several members have left and he has caught a bunch of flack (sp?) because of his inclusion of GLBT [gay,lesbian, bisexual, transgender] people into his church.”

Sponsors of the event include Daywind Music Group, Daystar Television Network and Compassion Children’s Ministry.

Daywind’s President, Ed Leonard, issued a statement to GCM Watch saying:

“I am unaware of their stance on this issue. As individuals, I understand they have been invited along with many others to participate at an event during NQC which celebrates 100 years of Southern Gospel music, Dony with the Downings, and Reba with the Rambos.”

Other sponsors had not responded at publication.

Insiders tell GCM Watch NQC attendees are made up of a majority of Christian conservatives and fundamentalists who are staunch opponents of homosexuality. Past speakers include Pastor John Hagee and this year Sarah Palin is showcase speaker.

The NQC press release listed the following participants:

  • Bluegrass segment featuring members of the legendary Lewis Family, Jeff & Sheri Easter, and the newly formed Lewis Tradition
  • nqc

  • A Gospel Caravan segment with the Lefevre Quartet, the Chuckwagon Gang, and the Blackwood Brothers Quartet
  • A Speer Reunion with members Diane Mayes, Ann Downing, Sue Dodge, Jeannie Johnson, Karen Apple, Ben Speer, Faye Speer, the Speer Sisters.
  • A Cathedral Reunion with Legacy Five, Greater Vision, and the Mark Trammell Quartet
  • A Hinson Reunion featuring Ronnie Hinson, Chris Freeman, Larry Hinson, Bo Hinson and many former band members such as Gary Prim
  • A Downings Reunion featuring Ann Downing, Joy Gardner, and Donnie McGuire
  • A Rambos Reunion featuring Reba Rambo McGuire, Buck Rambo and Reba’s daughter Chastity
  • A Singing Americans reunion with Michael English, Ed Hill, Rick Strickland, and Dewayne Burke
  • A reunion of 1980’s version of Gold City featuring: Tim Riley, Brian Free, Ivan Parker, Mike Lefevre, and Garry Jones
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    58 thoughts on “National Quartet Convention to include progay Rambos

    1. How wonderful that Dony and Reba are truly following Christ’s example. They’re judging not lest they be judged and loving their neighbors as they love themselves.

      Most Christians could clearly learn a lesson or two about love and Christianity from these two.

      Chris Tatum

    2. I just read your story with great dismay; it is incorrect. I am a member of Pastor’s Dony and Reba Rambo-McGuire’s church, and know them on a close, personal level. They are not supportive of the homosexual lifestyle, period. I have discussed this with them on more than one occasion. They do love and welcome anyone who wishes to attend the church, regardless of sex, race, faith or lifestyle. No one is turned away. It is their hope that once inside, everyone who hears God’s Word will be transformed, regardless of their spiritual condition. They believe that God’s word has just that kind of power, and that the love of God leads men to repentance, not the wrath of God.

      And regarding the above referenced quote, yes they washed the feet of some people who want nothing to do with Christianity because they’ve felt no love. Just because they washed their feet doesn’t mean they support their lifestyle, it just means they want to show them love.

      Dony and Reba are two of the finest people I have ever had the opportunity to know. They’ve stood in the face of unfounded gossip and said nothing- other than to pray for those who gossip. They truly care about people- not just a facade from the pulpit. And they try to live what they preach and teach.

      I have seen more of God in these two people in the past six years than in my entire life, and I “grew up” in church.

      I would encourage you to call them and just talk. Get the facts. They will gladly welcome you.

    3. I will never go back again. I’m telling my pastor. Just disgrace their mother’s legacy. Buck Rambo? He left his wife and lives in adultry now with his current wife.

    4. Michael, either or both of the McGuires are welcome to respond to this story at any time. And perhaps they can also explain why they doing a seminar with Jeff Ferguson.
      http://www.youcanwriteasong.com/

      Its very obvious what this man is doing. I guess he’s just a random casual gay visitor at their church who needs to be “welcomed”.

    5. Chris, the lesson most Christians need to learn is obedience to God’s Word which shows us what proper love is like.

      Just so you dont get it confused, Christ’s example was of obedience to the will of God. His first message was of repentance, not love.

      He loved us, but it was his obedience to the death of the cross that caused God to highly exalt him, giving him a name above every other name.

      See he could love us all day, but had he not obeyed, it would have all been in vain.

      Think about it.

    6. I’ve had personal contact with Reba and Dony over the years and can attest to what Michael has said regarding their doctrinal stance.

      What a pity that Christ’s undconditional love comes under such scrutiny!

    7. Lee apparently, thats not what Reba’s late mother Dottie thought. Read here.

      One look at the “partner ministries” on the church’s website is more evidence that they are either sending out strong mixed messages or not telling the truth to their followers to keep more people from exiting the church.

      So instead of all the generalizations about “Christ’s love”, lets hear the truth about the situation. Christ’s love is not what’s being questioned here.

      And thats not the only strange belief Ms Rambo-McGuire embraces.
      She told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in an 2008 interview she believes in reincarnation and that she was a man in her former life.

    8. Dony and Reba spoke at the Gay Charismatic Conference which is event hosted by Sandy Turnball who is a lesbian and Pastor of The Glory Tabernacle Christian Center in Long Beach, CA. They didn’t call wash the feet of people who didn’t want anything to do with Christianity. They washed the feet of openly gay pastors and asked them to forgive the church. Marsha Stevens also performed and has her ministry B.A.L.M. (Born Again Lesbian Music). Marsha Stevens has said that she has visited the River and is a friend of Reba Rambo’s.

      I was shocked Daywind Music is a part of this. I will no longer buy any of their label artists. It’s saddening to me as I love so many of their singers and they are the only southern gospel music I can usually find in stores. No more. I will also call my cable provider and tell them I would like to see Daystar replaced.

    9. “She told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in an 2008 interview she believes in reincarnation and that she was a man in her former life.”

      I can’t believe my eyes! Did I just read that?

      And she calls herself a pastor? A Christian? The bible says you can believe a lie and be damned. Sounds like she needs a exorcism.

      This is a perfect education that we must plant great faith in our children. Dottie Rambo expressed the constant adultry Reba’s father committed during their marriage. Maybe this is why Ms. McGuire is so unstable spiritually.

      I read that they are making an appearance with Bill Gaither. I will no longer patronize his business as well. We have to be good stewards with our money and not help the wicked prosper.

    10. Billy, I wouldnt be so quick to the draw with boycotting Daywind and other sponsors. I believe Mr. Leonard when he said he wasn’t aware of their beliefs. Although some are saying they hold no such beliefs, a lot of the evidence says otherwise. Not to mention the weird “reincarnation” comments.

      Perhaps they are holding conversations about it and the Rambo-McGuires will issue a public statement either refuting or affirming. Its not the position of GCM Watch to expel these performers, but to inform leaders so that people are not deceived and led astray.

      I would urge other southern gospel music lovers to contact these sponsors [daywind] [daystar] and at least ask for some accounting. After all, this is the Lord’s work and people who are working against that shouldnt be celebrated no matter how “talented” they are.

    11. That is good advice. Surely they want to send a proper message and not condone such ideology. I will email and request they examine their choices in talent for their events.

    12. To the author, just wondering why you didn’t contact the Rambo-McGuires before posting your story, just to get their side of things- of course they could reach out to you, but there are way too many blog sites to reach out to each one. As a legitimate journalist, I would think you would want to make sure your representation was based on truth and not heresay from other blogs, etc.

      I have no idea regarding the Pittsburgh story listed here, there is no link to support it. I have never, ever heard Reba say anything close to that.

      And finally, Dottie Rambo did not endorse the gay lifestyle, but had no problem with showing love to gays. She surrounded herself with with them. She and her manager were very close to Lilly Tomlin and her family who were quite open about their lifestyles. Her management posted pictures frequently in this regard. The lifestyle choices of those who surrounded Dottie are readily apparent- sometimes the men wore more mascara than the women! Come on! Stop acting like Dottie didn’t love gays- it’s an insult to Lilly Tomlin, and others.

      However, it did not mean that Dottie endorsed their lifestyle. She did not.

    13. Billy,
      You might want to do a little homework before posting slanderous and false stataements.

      The Pittsburgh article you referred to contained information about REBA McENTIRE, NOT REBA RAMBO-MCGUIRE.

      For those interested in the truth and not just casual and incorrect gossip, here’s the link:

      http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08290/920091-42.stm

      http://christiannewsreport.blogspot.com/2008/10/reba-mcentire-reincarnation.html

      GCMW: Billy wasnt the source of that quote. You are right and we stand corrected, the reincarnation quote was from Reba McIntire, not Reba McGuire. We retract all previous statements associated with it. Thanks for the correction.

    14. I’m quite sure Mr. Ferguson’s comments in the link you posted are not the truth! I’m wondering why Mr. Ferguson chose this time to respond to the original article posted right after Dottie’s death? Sounds to me like it’s Mr. Ferguson’s pathetic, desperate attempt to discredit them because he doesn’t like the fact that they were asked to sing at NQC.

      As Michael indicated, Dottie’s management was notorious for hanging out with those in the homosexual lifestyle. It’s pretty sad that you believed his take on things hook line and sinker.

      Do you have a source or link about the reincarnation thing? Sounds like a total fabrication!

    15. No, we didnt contact the Rambo-McGuires. Information in the article is from public record and certainly nothing that could be considered private. Several individuals were contacted. Not all responded to the story prior to publication. Again, they are more than welcome to respond.

      Your remarks regarding Dottie Rambo are also public information that most who know are aware of. Whether or not Dottie Rambo ever encountered gays/loved them is not the contention here.

    16. Michael your comment sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. I’m sure that if Ms. McGuire were not Dottie Rambo’s daughter her teachings would not make such a public discussion. Was this the point you were trying to make?

      With all due respect I’m sure Dottie Rambo was friends with people who didn’t share her Christian faith or values but did she ever promote ideology contrary to the teaching of the scriptures? Are you trying to devalue the wrong doing of her daughter by bringing up friendships and photos her mother may have had? If Dottie Rambo did endorse the far out new age theology would this be a positive reflection on her offspring. Not in my eyes. Thank God she did not.

      None are without sin. We are to love one another and I don’t believe that is in dispute. If you believe those teachings you should also believe that we are accountable for our actions. Be aware of false prophets and those that come to the flock as wolves in sheeps clothing. If you don’t agree with Ms. McGuire’s new age theology then you should leave their church. If you accept these teachings then there is no need to defend it with a love theology. Please don’t let stardust get in your eyes. This is how many religious cults and false teachers operate. If we are neither hot nor cold he spews us out.

    17. Billy,
      You are now rambling and off-point. I’m not sure who you are or why you feel priviledged to speak about people I’m fairly certain you’ve never met. Maybe you should come and visit the church and really listen to what’s being taught, and then perhaps you could speak about it with greater insight.

      This is all really much ado about nothing. The article Larry Ferguson posted was inappropriate and best; malicious at worst. Larry Ferguson seemed to have no problems with Reba and Dony’s church until Dottie’s death- then the maliciousness started after a failed power grab. His children even attended the church school and performed in recitals (his children were very cute and talented, I might add) and this did not change until after the fatal accident. It is interesting that he would come out with the article posted above when he was so closely involved with the church.

      And by the way, I’m not the one who brought Dottie up in this blog.

      It all started with the Quartet Convention and the false assumption that Reba and Dony are “pro-gay”. They are not supportive of that lifestyle, but like Dottie, they do love and embrace everyone, hoping that everyone will be changed by the Word of God…

    18. Lee,

      As to your personal opinion of me, I’m sorry you feel I have disappointed you and that you feel I’m “pathetic”. You are very correct in stating that I don’t agree with the Rambos being at NQC. That is my personal belief and conviction. I also don’t mind if you feel I have sour grapes over it. I gain or loose nothing by Buck Rambo or Reba Rambo singing at NQC. So you can toss up as many accusations or insults as you want. I won’t stoop to that level.

      If you had read what my original statement you would know it was in reply to Pastor Gallagher’s original comments that stated Dottie Rambo had embraced the doctrine of inclusion and it was days ago. If you are unaware of what the doctrine of inclusion is, it’s the teaching that there is one universal God and not salvation through Christ alone. Inclusion also promotes that there is no literal Hell. I was only recently made aware of the site, the article, and the accusation. That is what I responded to. I stand behind everything I said. If anyone were to believe that Dottie Rambo didn’t believe in salvation through Christ her entire ministry would have been tarnished.

      As to whom you think Dottie’s management (which was I) was notorious for hanging out with? I would first wonder how or why you know so much about my personal life? Also, I would wonder why you think that is of any importance? If I were an adulterous, drunk, crack dealer, or a prostitute it wouldn’t have any reflection on this issue. If I were gay it would have no reflection on this issue. I will say until my last breath that Dottie Rambo was a woman of God. She lived what she taught, preached, sang, and wrote. I may let you down tomorrow but I can tell you she walked and lived righteously and the pain she suffered both in physical and personal heartache was very public and known. Her faith was also equally known and to see that disparaged by someone who she didn’t even know when she wasn’t here to defend herself struck a chord with me.

      On a personal note, since you seem to know so much about me, I would like to personally apologize to you here publicly if any person I have “notorious” hung out with hurt your personal relationship with Christ or made you doubt mine. I’m far from perfect so I’m sure if your interest in my personal life hasn’t peaked you will find more to take issue with. Look to Jesus because I will always let you down as I am human flesh and I make no excuses for sin and I am accountable to Christ just as you are.

      I also don’t think anyone had to buy anything I said “hook, line, and sinker”. Nor do I see why you took it so personally??? Any of Dottie’s friends who knew and had a relationship with her know I speak the truth. I’m not speaking as a lone soldier who she confided secret information to. Her thoughts were made known on concert stages, in church services, privately and publicly. She had no secrets with the public.

      If going after me personally makes you feel better about this issue I invite you to go ahead as I have a very thick skin when it comes to myself. I am only tender hearted when it comes to those I love such as Dottie.

      Respectfully yours, Larry

    19. Billy,

      You are not making sense and frankly you are off point.

      I know them, you don’t. If you want the truth, it’s easy to obtain. Just attend their church (you could even be a secret plant) and maybe even have lunch afterward. They will talk with you, no problem. Tell you everything you want to know. But until you do, what you are posting here is certainly not Christ-like- it is malicious.

      And I had not read the post of Larry Ferguson “setting the record straight”, but now that I have, I find it a bit disingenuous for a couple of reasons.
      First of all, Larry’s children attended the church school and participated in school and church recitals until the fatal bus accident. He was there regularly, and seemed delighted. Always hugging Reba and Dony, and acting as if nothing was amiss. The message of the church and its leaders seemed just fine at that point.

      Secondly, I found the article to be self-serving, and I’m not alone in gospel circles. Even if it were true, who in their right mind would hang out such laundry and stir up so much ill?

      A lot of people know why, and dismiss it.

      My point here is: get the facts, and don’t just talk without being able to prove your point.

    20. Michael,

      I spoke the truth and evidently you still didn’t grasp what my original statement was in reference to. But I am puzzled how “Michael” would know so much about my children.

      Yes, I paid a tuition fee and my children attended the “Heart for the Arts” home school program. They were not members of the church and attending church services there. Only the school “Heart For The Arts” program. Yes, we have visited the River Church Services (3 times exclusing the annual school plays)and my kids probably did hug Reba many times. I know I have hugged her on many occasions. My children loved Reba. I do too. I talked with Reba on a regular basis. You are wrong in your comment that my children stopped attending “Heart For The Arts” after the bus crash. In fact they attended afterwards and until the school year was finished. They were enrolled in the home school program because my family traveled with Dottie and they couldn’t miss that many days in public school. I don’t think anything I ever said involved my children or my personal thoughts of Reba.

      I love Reba. She knows where I stand and I know where she stands but none of this has anything to do with ME or REBA.

      BUT since you brought it up…Dottie specifically told me that if my family and I were to join or attend the church (Reba also knows this because I told her) that she no longer wanted me a part of her ministry as she couldn’t hurt her name. She never knew I attended the handful of visits I made there.

    21. God Bless you Larry. Stand strong and rise above the negativity. The Lord will continue to bless you and protect you no matter where you go. Ignore these ruthless individuals.

    22. Mr. Ferguson did state that his reply was specific to the remark made by the now deceased Pastor Gallagher since he was the one who made it. It was uncontested until now.
      All of this was noted in the article, so Im not sure where all the invective is coming from. It seems those who are upset at the story are offering nothing of substance (still no contradicting facts) and engage in Ad Hominen attacks.

      If you cant refute Mr. Ferguson’s comments with some sort of evidence, you will find out your comments will be deleted. Please take note.

    23. Michael,

      I can vouch for Dottie’s dislike of The River. I attended many of Dottie’s services when she would visit anywhere near my former home of Dallas, TX. Dottie came to recognize me from attending so many of her services and often invited me to speak with her in private before or after her service.

      I often asked Dottie was Reba was up to these days, as I hadn’t heard anything from her since the 1980s. Dottie then explained to me that Reba was operating a gay church in Nashville with her husband. She couldn’t believe that Reba would endorse such a lifestyle after how she had been raised. I would go on, but Dottie shared lots of things with me in confidence that I don’t feel comfortable broadcasting to the world. If you would like to speak with me in private, I would be more than happy to share.

      Yes, Dottie Rambo had many many gay fans, but she did not endorse the lifestyle. I once overheard Dottie witnessing to one of her overtly gay fans after a service outside of Houston… the gentleman came to ask Dottie for an autograph as she was exiting the building and she felt the need to pray for the gentleman and his lifestyle. The gentleman that I’m speaking of was reduced to tears as Dottie seemed to know so much of the man’s lifestyle and told him that it was not too late to change his life around.

      Also, from my understanding, the River did not start out as a gay church. It just simply evolved into one. I highly doubt they advertise themselves as a “gay church,” but if you attend one of their services, you will see that 75% of their congregation is made up of homosexuals. I also seem to recall a story involving Buck Rambo leaving their church because he could no longer support their false doctrine.

      I was fortunate enough to meet Larry Ferguson once at one of Dottie’s performances around 2003 or so. I was not able to get to know him well, but I know that Dottie thought the world of him.

      I wish everyone would stop their bashing of people’s character on here… whether it be Reba, Dony, Larry, and especially Dottie, as she is not here to defend herself.

      Respectfully,
      Norman Edwins

    24. I’m sorry to mention this but the poster going under the name of Michael said…

      My children NEVER attended the River Church. I paid the school “Heart For The Arts” to enroll them in the church’s school program. Cindy who runs the school is a great teacher and Dottie and I both knew that. Please stop spreading untruths. My children attended a private home school church program that met at their Church (cafeteria area). They only attended services there in the times I mentioned.

      Yes, I do love Reba. I’m not making a false claim. I love you as well.

      As to the rest of your comments, I owe you no more of an explaination. It’s obvious since you have admitted you view my facebook daily that you are posing your comments under a false name. When you hide under a false name? Well, that speaks for itself.

      You offer a lot of excuses for everything I have read yet no substance or facts.

    25. Norman,

      You need to go back and read my post… I ATTEND THE CHURCH. IF ANYBODY KNOWS WHO THE CONGREGATION IS MADE UP OF, IT’S ME, NOT YOU. You are flat wrong. This also makes me doubt your other statements from Dottie.

      Please go back and read before making uniformed and false statements. Your “understanding” is wrong and you should be ashamed to make false and uniformed statements. I am there everyweek, and have been for almost seven years. The church is not 75% gay, in any form or fashion. I am not gay, and most of the people I know there are not gay. If I had to guess, I would say that maybe 10% of the church population is gay, but no more.

      Having said that, I hope more gays come- just like Dottie would. She welcomed them with open arms, and had dinner in their homes on a regular basis- just like Jesus. How in the world are gays or anyone else going to hear the good news of God unless they come to church?

      I am speaking as a church member- you have never set foot on the property. And I agree that character should not be bashed, including you by making false statements about the character of my church. I do not appreciate it. If you want to talk about it, come visit first.

      And just because you “seem to recall” something doesn’t mean you should talk about it. It’s not true. I know Buck- you don’t.

      I also know that Dottie would never share sometime like you’ve indicated with a fan- she had more class than that.

      If you really want to stop character assasination, start at home.

    26. Larry,

      I’m not your friend on FB. You know as well as I do that your posts are open to the public. Anyone can view your wall. If you don’t like it, wondering why you don’t make it private?

      The point isn’t about this, it’s about the fact that you denied maligning when you do it regularly. You’ve been exposed.

      Stop being disingenuous. People are onto your game.

    27. Larry,

      I don’t understand your post…I didn’t say this, you did.

      I’m sorry to mention this but the poster going under the name of Michael said…

      My children NEVER attended the River Church. I paid the school “Heart For The Arts” to enroll them in the church’s school program. Cindy who runs the school is a great teacher and Dottie and I both knew that. Please stop spreading untruths. My children attended a private home school church program that met at their Church (cafeteria area). They only attended services there in the times I mentioned.

      And you confirmed what I posted. If you have such a problem with the church, then why did you allow your children to attend? And thanks for being honest for once about the church and school- it was a part of the church- a huge part. And Pastor Cindy was a great teacher- you got that right. She cared about your kids like they were her own. You should thank God for her and Reba and what they meant in your children’s lives instead of the constant bashing you do of the church and my pastors.

      Enough. Your exposed.

    28. Michael:

      As I said…My children didn’t attend services at the church. They went to school there. We were not members of the church. We PAID to send our children to a home school program. They only attended services at your church when it was a school dramatic program/presentation. Cindy was a great teacher. Never did I state other wise.

      I’m not sure how I am exposed?

      I didn’t bash anyone. I also know many people that attend your church. I don’t think any less of them. And I’m happy that you are happy there as well.

      As to my facebook. My page is private. If you are correct that anyone can view my page I would suggest that if anything I said is offensive to you that you not visit the page. And as I said if anything I said was offensive to you I’m sorry for that.

    29. Larry,

      We are going in circles and I am largely weary of it. You are not making sense. You say your page is private but that I am correct in that anyone can view it.

      Before turning out the lights here, I’ve got a couple of questions…

      First of what in the world did you mean by the above quote:

      “As to whom you think Dottie’s management (which was I) was notorious for hanging out with? I would first wonder how or why you know so much about my personal life? Also, I would wonder why you think that is of any importance? If I were an adulterous, drunk, crack dealer, or a prostitute it wouldn’t have any reflection on this issue. If I were gay it would have no reflection on this issue…”

      If you were gay it would be hugely relevant to this issue, because the whole post centers around the fact that the Rambo’s are singing at the NQC and they are falsey accused of being “pro-gay”. You might want to go back and read the header. This blog is a “gay watch” blog. If you are gay, it is highly relevant to them. The only reason I am even on this post is because you were kind enough to bring it to our attention on your page. These people are interested in who is and is not gay in christian media, etc. That’s their blog, and they have a right to blog about it.

      Secondly, this blog concerns the doctrine of inclusion, which you also discuss here and in another article.

    30. Norman,

      You should not make posts based on heresay. It’s gossip.

      I attend the church for goodness sakes! It’s not 75% gay. If I had to estimate, it’s maybe 10%. Gay teachings are not preached there. Gays are welcomed and loved, but not told that their lifestyles are okay by God’s Word. Same for anyone with anything in their lives that stands in opposition to the Word. We all sit and hear great messages from the Word of God, period. Everyone is loved, and hopefully we are all being changed the more we hear it. We all need change, me included. I’m not gay, but I’m sinning right now because I’m so aggravated by all the false statements like yours.

      I do not believe that Dottie would have said that to a fan- it would have been inappropriate. She was at our church having pictures made with the children just prior to her accident.

      And no one has said anything here that I see which is derogatory toward Dottie. However, I agree that all the bashing needs to stop- my reason for posting to begin with. But Norman, you are bashing away when making unfounded statemnents about my church and pastors.

    31. Micheal, by force of commentary, you have risen to the top as the chief apologist for the McGuire-Rambos and said church. By your own unsolicited admission you have insisted frequently that you are “in the know”, about pretty much everything regarding the Rambos and their church…and the late Dottie Rambo.

      Something about your comments is becoming increasingly confusing. I know you have started a strawman war with Mr. Ferguson but lets get back to the issues at hand.
      You claim you are in the know but you havent substantiated (unlike Mr. Ferguson) that other than saying you are but a mere bench member. Its unclear how a bench member could know so much. But lets assume you are some high ranking church official and you actually are in the know. Youve asserted that (1) the church isnt progay (2) the pastors are not progay If this is a fact, with your extensive inside knowledge please explain why:

      1. Your pastors intentionally traveled to California to attend a conference of homosexual christians. This is no benign random visitor is welcome scenario. I fail to see if they are just simply “welcoming” people who are gay who happen to come to the church, why this rather extreme act on their part?
      2. Why is your pastor partnering and working with people (we’ve already cited that) who do indeed support homosexuality and perhaps are themselves so called gay christians? Again thats not passive or random, but intentional activity.
      3. Why —if your pastors do not support homosexual activity as normal sexual expression— there seems to be no indication from them that they do? Is that to present an image the gay community finds “welcoming”?

      Please answer these questions as a person “in the know”.

      …and if you supply me with their personal email address, I will send these questions to them to be answered since you insisted they would most certainly be willing to talk about it.

    32. How has Mr. Ferguson substanitated anything other than you taking his word for it?

      GCMW: His supplied his real name, his face and his documented managerial position with the late Dottie Rambo. In contrast, Michael has supplied nothing but complaints. Its easy to believe someone who doesnt hide their identity.

      Mr. Ferguson did not attend the church other than going to the school or on special performances. So how would he be able to substaniate anything the McGuires teach?

      GCMW: We covered that in the previous article.

      If Dottie and Reba were so estranged as Mr. Ferguson claims, and Dottie never attended her daughter’s church then she could not substantiate their theology either.

      GCMW: First, that’s not the contention he made. He said Dottie Rambo did not support her daughter’s progay theology. Secondly, you dont have to personally witness a train wreck to know its not something you want to be involved in.

    33. GCM-

      This will be my final response; I am concerned because my posts are being edited, and not reflecting everything written. You are also choosing to delete entire posts which weakens your credibility, and questions that of others who post.

      I am also wondering why you haven’t commented on Ferguson’s statement “If I were gay it would have no reflection on this issue”.

      You edited my query to him regarding his current talent, Carol Channing, Buddhism and inclusion.

      It goes to point because of your tagback to his August 21 story printed in this blog. These stories deal with two issues: inclusion and homosexuality. All relevant to the current blog at hand.

      I thought this was a blog about gays and Christianity, is it not?
      If so, his statement speaks volumes and needs to be addressed if your site is to be deemed credible. If not, you become the strawman, leaving us to wonder what the blog really concerns. You owe it to your readers to get clarity on that point, especially since the Rambos are being falsely accused of what Mr. Ferguson says is of no importance.

      I am not on staff at my church, but I am a close friend who cares greatly about my pastors who have been repeatedly maligned, but chosen the high road in not responding. Perhaps they should, and I will certainly ask them. A growing number of people have taken issue with Mr. Ferguson because of derogatory comments he has made regarding Reba, her family and my church.
      I provided an example, but you chose to delete the post. He falsely states that he does not do this, but his comments have been cached by me and others. He is relevant because this post directly links to his “story” of August 21. This is why I have taken Mr. Ferguson to task. I believe that he is being disingenuous regarding all the issues of homosexuality referred to here.

      Now, regarding your questions~
      First of all, I will not speak for my pastors; if you want to engage them, their website is not private. Any email address you need can be found there.

      However, I will answer your questions from my viewpoint, which is based on my knowledge of and friendship with “them”.

      I need to provide clarity of the term “pro gay”. If by “pro gay” you mean supporting the gay lifestyle, then no, they are not
      “pro gay”. They embrace everyone, regardless of sex, race,
      color or lifestyle choice. Everyone is welcome. That does not mean they support or condone their choices.

      We do not support or promote the agenda of any group, including homosexuality, but those groups are welcome to come and hear about Jesus, and to receive love and friendship.

      The Word of God is taught without compromise, and sometimes it cuts both ways. In summary, the message is this: Jesus came to save, and salvation is through Him. He came and brought good news of love, joy and peace for all who will follow Him. You can choose to honor and obey God’s word, or go your own path, i. e., choose life and not death. That’s the message. We invite all to come in, but we let the conviction of God’s word (and Holy Spirit) do the clean up.

      1. Regarding the pastors trip to the church in California- they were invited to come out and minister to a group of people who need God just like the rest of us. If that’s extreme, then I’m glad they took that measure. But don’t misconstrue their message~ they did not condone homosexuality- they were trying to show love to people regardless of whatever condition they were in. The same as when Jesus spent time with the tax collectors, or any other group- He didn’t deny them His love because of where they were. If He had not shown them love, do you really think they would have wanted to become like Him, or follow Him? They were just trying to be more like Jesus- not put a rubber stamp on homosexuality.

      2. Not sure who you are referring to that they are “partnering with”. My pastors don’t openly ask people whether they are gay or not. I do know that homosexuality is present in all fields of music, including gospel and southern gospel. To not affiliate or participate with someone because they are homosexual means that the entire industry would close, including the conventions. Rather than shun, the better way is to be a friend, show the love of God, and pray that His power can make the changes needed. How can anyone know unless we show them with love?

      3 In no way do my pastors support homosexuality as “normal sexual expression”, but they do want gays and any other group to feel welcomed. Again, how will they hear about what God’s word says if they are not welcome? It just doesn’t make sense. What about the adulterer, liars and other sinners? Should we take a survey and then determine who can enter? It doesn’t work.
      You have to want to come inside to even be in a place to hear what God says about your life!

      I don’t have anything else to say- it’s really pretty simple. We all need to get religiosity out of the way and let the power of God’s Word, coupled with Holy Spirit do the work in all our lives.

    34. I said I was done, but now I’m really done after your last, very unprofessional remark:

      GCMW: First, that’s not the contention he made. He said Dottie Rambo did not support her daughter’s progay theology. Secondly, you dont have to personally witness a train wreck to know its not something you want to be involved in.

      You have no proof of any “trainwreck”, you are choosing to be subjective (a no-no of good journalism), basing your comments on heresay- again, why don’t you go visit instead of basing an entire blog on heresay,

      Now I’m done.

    35. Interesting that you back out of the conversation after your identity is questioned. Your strawman war with Mr. Ferguson is yours. Frankly it was rather distracting.

      Your answers still seem more apologetic than evidentiary despite your overinsistence that you were in the know. Nonetheless, thanks for your perspective. Im not sure it resolves the critical issues raised here, but you certainly have provided much for further questioning.

    36. GCM,
      Did you really edit Michael’s comments as he said? If so, why? It makes it very difficult to know the entire argument and come to any conclusion if people’s arguments statements are being changed and edited.

    37. cici, yes his comment was edited to remove about 8 words. This conversation has absolutely zero to do with Carol Channing and whether or not she is a buddhist.

      Frankly Ive tolerated enough of Michael’s lurch off into strawmanland.

      I dont think there’s any difficulty in determining a conclusion based on the totality of his rather long winded apologetic as opposed to the removal of a tangent phrase that could spark nothing but more confusion.

      Its been done before sparingly to keep the discussion as free of unnecessary tangents.

      Any other concerns you have about editing you can send them to email.

    38. Dottie said many times that her manager was her adopted son and that he took care of her. I was in her Dottie’s Dearest newsletter for her fans. I think since Dottie didn’t attend services of her daughter’s church while living in the same town speaks volumes. This should discount any dispute as to how Dottie felt about Reba Rambo McGuire. I am not sure what the Carol Channing Buddahist connection is but I googled her and she is not a Buddahist from what I have read. I found no connection on her name with Buddahism. I guess it shows this poster Michael has facts incorrect.

    39. One cannot be openly gay and call themselves Christians.
      One cannot be openly adulterers and called themselves Christians.
      One cannot be openly liars and called themselves Christians.

      Part of being Christians and is to always strive to follow God’s Word. It is a constant struggle. But if you feel comfortable living a sinful life, you can’t call yourself a Christian. If you can’t strive to be perfect, how to you plan to teach others to remain faithful to the Word.
      It is really an affront to Christianity that there are people who called themselves “openly gay pastors”. This doesn’t make any sense. This is not a subject about Christ accepting and loving everybody. Yes, Christ does accept and love everybody and He hates sins.
      I simply don’t understand how someone can be in a church that purports to teach the Word of God and has an ‘openly gay pastor’ and a leader. It’s none of my business that someone is gay but when that person starts hijacking my religion, I feel the need to defend my God. Drop the ‘Christian’ label if you cannot abide by the Word. You can only earn the right to call yourself a Christian if you participate in the struggle to be Christ-like.

      I don’t mean to offend anybody but I felt the need to address this absurdity. Christianity is under attack and all true Christians should stand up and defend the sanctity of the Word.

    40. I couldn’t agree more, Jay! If I saw a minister who professed to be an openly adulterer pastor or actively thieving minister, I’d wonder who was sitting under such nonsense! If I see something about to attack my child, would anyone say I was being “judgemental” for taking on that thing before it could harm her? Why then, do we as Christians pull away from calling out the sin we see since it (embracing the sin of homosexuality, or any other sin) too would cause harm?
      As we seek God to root out the sin in our own lives, He will give us discernment for where to choose for worship. Once we find that church we are obligated to hold the leaders accountible for living the lives they teach & preach about. The Bible clear-sin is sin. When we live in and PRACTICE sin, we are liars & the father of lies/liars is the devil. I don’t know about you, but that is NOT who I want to claim my soul at judgment.

    41. Dee and Jay,

      You guys need to go read about the life of King David- he committed every sin you mentioned- and even though God chastised him, He said that David was a man after his own heart. So I pretty much think that David would be able to call himself a christian today.

      And I don’t know too many “sinners” who sit around and seek God to root out the sin in their lives. They don’t want to go near people like you who beat the crap out of them with your bible, and they sure won’t go near your church. They probably don’t even know that some of the things they are doing is “sin”.

      From what I read here, it doesn’t sound like the Rambo’s are progay at all. Not sure what you are talking about- but if they are teaching what God says once the people come to the church, and not supporting the gay lifestyle, then I don’t see what all this is about.

    42. No excuse for sin. Love the sinner and not the sin is correct. Condone the sin and collect the tithes is wrong. Many times we like a person so well that we excuse poor leadership from them.

    43. In other words we as Christians are not perfect but God forbid we start saying that our struggles are OK according to scripture. So if I am liar I say that nothing is wrong with lying for thats not what it means in the greek, etc.

    44. Carla you would be right but only if homosexuals do like David did and repent. Read Psalms 51. Thats what made him a man after God’s heart. Nothing more, nothing less.

    45. Michael–the fact that Dottie had a problem with Their Churches’ doctrine speaks volumes. As Dottie’s manager, wouldn’t Larry know where she refused to be booked? Why would he make that up?
      It seems to be apparent that something was amiss.

      I remember once watching a program around 2006/2007 or so in which Dottie was a guest with several ladies including Tammy Faye, who was close to death.
      Tammy’s daughter came in the room, and then rubbed Tammy’s back. Tammy asked Dottie twice to no response at all, (Dottie looked very uncomfortable), “isn’t it nice to have a daughter to take care of you, Dottie?”…I’ll never forget the look in Dottie’s face, and I never knew there was a problem until then.

    46. Sure he did. And David sinned and repented before Psalms 51. The citation of Psalms 51 wasnt meant to convey chronological repentance, but rather as an example of what true Godly repentance looks like. David’s heart was ALWAYS repentant. A contrite heart endears a person to God. Nothing more, nothing less.

    47. I am in agreement with GCW here, just didn’t express my complete thought:

      Carla you would be right but only if homosexuals do like David did and repent. Read Psalms 51. Thats what made him a man after God’s heart. Nothing more, nothing less.

      I totally agree with this. Sorry to all for the confusion.

      It seems that a lot of the posts are off on rabbit trails…
      I don’t see where the pastors in this article are gay or endorse being gay. As I read it, they open their doors to gays, like anyone else, but they don’t support the lifestyle.

      And to CJ, you are the one who posted pictures of Larry Ferguson at an openly gay church in the related story on this blog by Larry Ferguson “Setting The Record Straight”.

      http://www.sherwoodopendoor.org/2008conferencepics.html

      I have looked at all the posts on both these stories, and something is missing- why no one is questioning Larry Ferguson about why he is going to a gay church to speak at all, and why he wouldn’t answer Michael’s question about whether or not it was ok to be gay…

      Something is amiss, C. J., I agree.

    48. And CJ,

      What in the name of all that is good does your weird comment about Tammy Faye Baker and her daughter and Dottie have to do with this article in any way?

      It doesn’t make sense.

    49. Carla–that was when I realized that Dottie and Reba may have had an issue.
      According to Larry, they also had doctrinal issues.

    50. CJ,

      Your comment still doesn’t make sense to me. I looked at the pictures, and if anything, Larry Ferguson seems to fit right in at the Open Door Church.

      From what I read here, not sure Dottie would have made an appearance there; the church is openly gay.

      Again, this just isn’t making sense to me. This is an article about whether or not the Rambos are pro-gay. Then I read all these posts where Larry Ferguson is asked about whether he thinks it is ok to be gay, and he didn’t answer.

      I would like to know if he thinks its ok, and if he is gay. That would clear up a lot of the confusion of these posts and get to the heart of the matter.

    51. Carla–he isn’t IN those pictures. He was there showing slides of Dottie, but I can’t find the specific article where I saw it.
      I think everyone in here is just as confused as you are. No one is giving complete answers to questions, and it leaves you wondering.

      It’s perplexing to me when someone gives an eye-witness testimony of something Dottie or Reba said and then someone else basically calls it slander/a lie. What IS the Truth here?

    52. Carla,

      I know who you are and as for your personal attacks against me well it says a lot for your character.

      1). I have never professed to be a minister, preacher, or evangelist. I work in the music business and I’m a Christian. Not a pastor or evangelist.
      2). My comments were about Pastor Kevin Gallagher’s remarks that Dottie had embraced the doctrine of inclusion.

      This is personal to you because you are friends with Reba Rambo. You didn’t know Dottie Rambo and she didn’t know you. That being said you cannot even speak to this issue or anything to do with Dottie Rambo. You’re welcome to try to attempt to distract from the situation by attacking me and any mistakes I may have made in my life. Yes, I was at Open Door at a musical concert tribute to Dottie Rambo with Southern Gospel singers. I was invited to speak about my relationship with her. The guest singers sang Dottie Rambo’s songs and I spoke about what a great woman she was. There was no preaching. The service ended we went home. I never showed slides either. The people were very good to me as I was very sick (and was in the midst of surgeries due to the crash) at the time and was accompanied by a nurse who was taking care of me (voluntarily).

      Comparing me to your pastors is very different. For one I’m not a pastor, and further more I have never claimed to be any more than I am and that is a Christian who works in the music business. I’m married to a wonderful woman, I have two children. I believe the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ and the repentance of sin. I believe in his death, burial, and ressurection. I believe there is a hell. I don’t support the doctrine of inclusion. I know that I couldn’t hold a candle to Dottie Rambo’s light and her walk with God. I’m sure you can find a million things you may think I have done wrong in my life. The difference in this conversation is that I will own those things and publicly repent of any wrong doing I do.

      Since you don’t know me Carla and are trying to turn the issue about me it shows where you stand and the distraction you are making. I spoke only to the original comments of Pastor Kevin Gallagher and that Dottie didn’t support the doctrinal beliefs of Dony and Reba Rambo. This is true. You took those comments and melted both stories together

      What you are doing is what a child does when he is caught with his hand in a cookie jar. Instead of saying yes, I got the cookie, you are trying to say well I saw brother get a cookie last week so go punish him. But the truth is you didn’t witness brother doing anything only heard about it second hand.

      If you have a concern or lot against me I’m more than happy for you to meet with me to discuss it. Since I have only met you once and you didn’t know Dottie Rambo personally while being her daughter’s dear friend for a good part of this decade I don’t think speaking second hand about me and/or Dottie is relevant.

      Love,
      Larry

    53. Carla,

      I failed to answer your last question. No, I’m not gay. I hope you get some comfort in that. If I were though it still wouldn’t change the legacy that Dottie Rambo left. That was the original comment I made and Michael trying to sensationalize. I won’t ask you or Michael about your sexual business or marital situations as it is not relevant to any of these stories.

      Larry

    54. i just read carlas question. larry is my husband. we have 2 children with each other. we have been married for 15 years. i have known larry since we were in pre school.i know of one of the men who left his wife and an apartment full of kids to be gay at the river church so you may be you are used to that sort of thing.

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