"If I be a lying prophet": the strange case of the eulogist's death

BRIDGEPORT, CT – The bell has tolled for the late Bishop Walter Hawkins’ eulogist, leaving behind questions about the power of words and the retribution of God.  Bishop Kenneth Moales died of an unexpected heart attack Sept 21st, just 30 days after a strange remark at the end of his sermon. He was president of the National Convention of Gospel Choirs and Choruses and a well known speaker and singer at black mega churches and conferences across the country.

At the closing of his obsequies for Bishop Hawkins, Moales did something some observers at the service called unusual.
Apparently the bishop had sermonized from the 2 book of Kings (that part isn’t available).  Suddenly, after reciting 2 Kings 23:30b seven times, he summoned up Hawkins’ son Jamie and “anointed” him to be the late singer’s “successor”. The action was  understood by many in attendance to be a consecration to the pastorate of his father’s Love Center Church.

The video below captures Moales’ initial boldness, then doubt to cautious, then bold move to recreate something he referenced in scripture.

At 4:55 in the video, Moales declares “If I be a lying prophet may I never ever preach again.” Perhaps uncertain that what he was doing was right, he acknowledges that he “wasnt going to do this” [anoint Hawkins] but remanded the decision on God telling him to “go back and get the oil” (4:59).  But did those words prove to be deadly for Bishop Moales?

The  illict “consecration” of a wicked heir

The problem with Moales’ declaration was his gross misuse and application of the passage he cited. We can determine that by following the storyline from a contextual beginning. The story is a serious one with deep lessons about the penalties of  rejecting God’s instructions.

1. Moales only quoted part of the verse scripture serveral times for emphasis to support his forthcoming actions. Had he cited the entire verse in context, it would have presented a picture vastly different that what he used it for. Even though [King] Josiah had instituted a scorched earth policy against idolatry in Judah, even that wasnt enough to turn the Lord’s anger at the people.

” Nevertheless, the LORD did not turn away from the heat of his fierce anger, which burned against Judah because of all that Manasseh had done to provoke him to anger. 27 So the LORD said, “I will remove Judah also from my presence as I removed Israel, and I will reject Jerusalem, the city I chose, and this temple, about which I said, ‘There shall my Name be.’ (2 Kings 23:26-27)

God was angry at the people and yet they continued to ignore him and his promise to reject them.

Despite what Josiah had done,   2 Chronicles 35:20-27 reveals that his death was a direct result of his disobedience to the word of the Lord spoken to him by the Egyptian king.

“What quarrel is there between you and me, O king of Judah? It is not you I am attacking at this time, but the house with which I am at war. God has told me to hurry; so stop opposing God, who is with me, or he will destroy you.” (NIV)

2. The scripture says it was the people who anointed Josiah’s son, not God. Its evident in the following verses that God did not sanction this human “anointing” because Jehoahaz was a wicked man, despite being Josiah’s son and heir apparent. Moales acknowledged that Jamie Hawkins “wasnt ready” (not saved?), but excused it by saying that a person could be “anointed but not ready.” This may be true in some cases, but only when God has sanctioned the consecration of the individual. In the passage Moales misused, he attributed to God a rebellious act by the people God had rejected.

3. God did not allow the illict consecration of Jehoahaz to stand. Just three months later,  God sent the same Egyptian king who killed his father, to depose him and take him back to Egypt a slave.

Jehoahaz was twenty and three years old when he began to reign; and he reigned three months in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Hamutal, the daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah. And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done.

And the king of Egypt deposed him at Jerusalem, and fined the land a hundred talents of silver and a talent of gold. […] And Neco took Joahaz his brother, and carried him to Egypt. 2 Chronicles 36

If you want to see how this ended, read the entire chapter of 2 Chronicles 36. It is tragic indeed.

Postscript: I have heard numerous contemporary black church “prophets” make this same type of declaration before and I have always cringed at it. It seems a brash statement to make given the history of how God has dealt with false prophets. In fact, Josiah’s reforms included killing all the false prophets and burning their bones until nothing of them remained.

“And The Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in My Name; I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.” (Jeremiah 14:14 RSV)

“Your prophets have seen for you false and deceptive visions; they have not exposed your iniquity to restore your fortunes, but have seen for you oracles false and misleading” (Lamentations 2:14 RSV)

“And her prophets have daubed for them with whitewash, seeing false visions and divining lies for them, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord God,’ when The Lord has not spoken.” (Ezekiel 22:28 RSV)

Questions

Was Bishop Kenneth Moales the “lying prophet” he spoke about and did it cost him his life?

Do you believe that today in an era of “grace and mercy”, God will still strike down those who lie in his name?

Did Bishop Moales use the scriptures for an evil purpose and perhaps endanger those who participated in it?

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52 thoughts on “"If I be a lying prophet": the strange case of the eulogist's death

  1. Ananias and Sapphira were in the age of grace and mercy and we see what happened to them…to me, it seemed like the good bishop made that “prophecy” to play to the crowd…people see church as a type of kingdom…people want the prince to follow the king, whether they’re ready or not…if i was Jamie, i’d be rejecting that “prophecy” quick fast in a hurry…

  2. It seems as if God is getting tired of all the hypocrisy and starting to make his power known. Also I noticed a little before the six minute mark that the preacher was referring to anointing the new leader into the levitical priesthood. This in essense was a curse being passing on, cause we know that Christ is in a priesthood that no man gives attendance at the alter for and not of the carnal levitical priesthood.

  3. Wow! Never heard of Moales, people posting
    Now, honest, I was running thru my mind “Josiah, good king/bad king…which?” Cause they were coming in and going out in Chronicles, but obviously NOBODY else there shouting and getting excited each time he read with more emphasis

  4. Hit enter too soon… NOBODY else in there had their BIBLE obviously. High off emotion and celebrity and grief. Somebody in the back that reads the Word was probably like, “Er…Um…this ain’t about to be good”
    Was trying to say, I’d never heard of Moales, guess his church was not big enough, though people are trying to defer from having an adult conversation about the Long scandal to his death. But I had seen this video before, and his anointing Hawkins son just made me think, well the church is gonna keep on in whatever has been taught…good or bad. Moales keeps repeating “and the people…” When “the people” do stuff and God ain’t in it or its not for to glory of God we get in trouble throughout the Bible, starting with Babel…the people wanted an idol in the desert, wanted a king, etc…
    @Djenk, that would be the wise thing to do, but if the son is unsaved and unwise, when people start talking to him, and they see the money leaving, he’ll step up in the pulpit like he got a word and at least give it a try.

  5. This is a shock! I watched the service when it was streaming live online through an Oakland TV station. I recall those remarks, but I suppose I was too “caught up in the moment” to hear those words…makes you wonder.

  6. James you are absolutely right. And I didnt pick up on that but it was an offense and affront to the cross. That’s the trouble people get into when they start spiritualizing OT rituals and trying to look deep.
    Besides that Moales made two other grave errors in judgment against the scripture.

    Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure.(1 Tim. 5:22)
    That’s a double prohibition right there. He consecrated Jamie Hawkins (and his father’s) sins and in the process became partaker of the mess.

    The act of consecrating someone is a serious one with implications for the person who does it. The person being anointed to such a position must be proven and tried first. Remember David proved his fitness for the kingship by killing a lion and a bear for threatening the sheep before Samuel showed up to anoint him. And it was GOD who ordered the consecration. 1 Sam 16:1

    Secondly, if Jamie Hawkins “was not ready” as he said, then he never should have done what he did. 1 Tim 3 clearly says not to do it.

    This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,[b] but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

    This stipulates that such a person cannot even be a newly saved convert. Unless Im missing something, I dont ever recall Jamie Hawkins professing salvation.

    Like Djenk said, if I were Jamie Hawkins I would publicly reject everything Moales did. The others who laid hands and agreed with him could be in just as much danger. I noticed that COGIC Bishop George McKinney was standing nearby, but did not move to participate.

  7. ?Prophet? Moales definitely used the scripture out of context. Why would God back a plan to put someone into the pastorate using 2 Chronicles chapters 35 and 36 to do it. After Jehoahaz was disposed by the King of Egypt every King to succeed him led Israel further and further into spiritual darkness. Until King Zedekiah took the cake and bit the hand that fed him. And then look what happen:

    2 Chronicles 36:17-20 (New Living Translation)

    The Fall of Jerusalem
    17 So the Lord brought the king of Babylon against them. The Babylonians[a] killed Judah’s young men, even chasing after them into the Temple. They had no pity on the people, killing both young men and young women, the old and the infirm. God handed all of them over to Nebuchadnezzar. 18 The king took home to Babylon all the articles, large and small, used in the Temple of God, and the treasures from both the Lord’s Temple and from the palace of the king and his officials. 19 Then his army burned the Temple of God, tore down the walls of Jerusalem, burned all the palaces, and completely destroyed everything of value.[b] 20 The few who survived were taken as exiles to Babylon, and they became servants to the king and his sons until the kingdom of Persia came to power.

    ?Prophet? Moales stepped into the “shoes” of God. Which is very dangerous…..

  8. Amen brdavision. The terrifying judgment of God had fallen and instead of repenting (which could perhaps only delayed the inevitable), the people flipped him the bird by consecrating Jehoahaz.

    But God had ordained their enemies to take them down. My God. Lessons, lessons people of God.

    And the people who were at that funeral were cheering, speaking in tongues and assenting to it. When God is in judgment mode, do not oppose his work.

    May God have mercy on the ignorant who perish because they reject the saving knowledge of his word.

  9. lapreghiera, yes he keeps repeating it…. AND THE PEOPLE. I counted seven times. Did he read/comprehend that passage before he used it to support? Perhaps the Holy Spirit was trying to tell him something and avert it, but he said “I feel you kicking but it doesnt matter to me.”

    Listen and watch closely there are a lot of variations of threes in the video and the scriptures.

  10. Wow. Just stunning. Well written post GCM Watch.

    The answer to your questions is YES on all counts. It seems we’re all in agreement here. God is not mocked.

    And several of us know, there’s still plenty more house cleaning needed over at “Love Center Church” and has been for decades, possibly since it’s inception.

  11. Had one of my legendary book-length replies, but decided to junk it. Allow me to say that the primary problem with Moales’ declaration is making an invalid comparison with Israel’s Old Testament monarchy with the New Testament church. The former, the Old Testament monarchy, was a type that pointed to the current reality of the New Testament church under the headship (kingship) of Jesus Christ. Suggesting that the thing that is greater (the fulfillment) ought to be governed by the thing that though blessed and used by God was nonetheless lesser and has been fulfilled and passed away and is no longer needed or desirable (the type or promise) is nothing short of an abomination. It is rejecting what God has given to and commanded for us. And as you stated, it is revealing that Moales rejected the Godly commandment for running churches in order to justify giving an office to a person that he knew wasn’t ready for it.

    Incidentally, the idea that humans running churches have the authority to anoint church officers and not God … how is that different from Catholicism? (Answer: it isn’t.)

    And lest you say “Wow, that was still mighty long”, I will just say that my original was MUCH MUCH LONGER AND STILL UNFINISHED before I finally gave up on it 🙂

  12. People of God: We are in some serious times. I believe ( no, this is not a prophetic utterance) that God is using these examples to show us that He is Lord of His Church and He is tired of the flim flam that goes on and thus the fear of the Lord is mocked by both the “church” people and the unsaved.
    When we knowingly mistreat the Word of God for our own amusement or profit or advantage, we are mocking God and God has said that He will not be mocked.
    If nothing else, these recent events calls us to personal holiness and discernment so that when we are in events or situations in which the Word of God is being profaned, we will not stand by and act as if we do not know what to do.
    Do as Paul the Apostle did…make a stand and contend for the faith and God will back up His Word.
    Be prayful and watchful and do not let any giants in the land scare you into being fearful and you taking on the faith of a grasshopper!

  13. Bishop indeed preached after the anointing service in California, his heart attack was not because he was a lying/false prophet… Over the last few years Bishop had gained an enormous amount of weight…Hypertension, high cholesterol and the stress of building a bigger church to completion were the issues that may have contributed to his demise.. it was his time just like all of us have a set time.. The Bishop was a great man of God and did alot for the Bridgeport community the Body of Christ… that is the legacy he left behind!!

  14. So doorkeeper, what do you think of this gross misuse and missapplication of the Lord’s word? Is it okay to do that?
    And there are many factors and scriptures that would refute your “set time” remark. Was Annanias and Sapphira’s death for lying to the Holy Ghost a matter of set time?

    “Hypertension, high cholesterol and the stress of building a bigger church to completion”
    That’s normal??

    Disobedience to God will cut your days short.

  15. @Job, glad you kept this one short brother. You summed up well how he was trying to use something not even applicable to the current covenant. And, for that, it seems he even paid the price that we’ve seen some pay across both covenants for disobedience.

    False teachers abuse scripture in so many ways, Lord willing those in their crowds will learn the truth and come out from among them.

    Once even some of us were among them, but thank God through our Lord Jesus Christ, we know better now.

  16. @doorkeeper, we’re looking forward to your response to gcmwatch. Also have a peek at the comment from Job above, date stamped “# 25 September 2010 at 12:35 pm”.

    I’d really like to read how you can explain the analysis of gcmwatch and Job regarding their read of Holy scripture versus that of your “Bishop”.

    It’s about rightly dividing the Word of Truth, and either Moales divided it right or he was flat out wrong. (no pun intended)

  17. Elder Foster,

    You said“2. The scripture says it was the people who anointed Josiah’s son, not God. Its evident in the following verses that God did not sanction this human “anointing” because Jehoahaz was a wicked man, despite being Josiah’s son and heir apparent. Moales acknowledged that Jamie Hawkins “wasnt ready” (not saved?), but excused it by saying that a person could be “anointed but not ready.” This may be true in some cases, but only when God has sanctioned the consecration of the individual. In the passage Moales misused, he attributed to God a rebellious act by the people God had rejected

    Elder this post MUST be blast out by everyone reading it. These are the moments when the Spirit of the Lord is responding directly to the apostasy that the modern church is setting forth and has allowed. This IDOLATRY is being put down and dealt with. Jones, Leyva, Hornbuckle, Allen, Paulk, Baaker (who repented), Swaggart (who repented), Moales, Long, etc, etc…WHO WILL BE NEXT??? They will all be dealt with by the Spirit of the Lord for endorsing, promoting and living a LIE. A lie deceiving the people and leading them more and more into sin…

    The leader of this people has been deceived and error is their path and certain destruction is the fruit of their labor and that destruction is upon them that believe and follow their lie. No matter how much work this man did, deceiving the people of GOd with the LIE of anointing a SINNER over GOd’s people is similar to Moses striking the rock instead of speaking to the rock. It is disobedience, unsound and a grievous error, and one that caused GOd to move against him. NO FLESH will glory in the site of the Lord…NO FLESH has done anything to be exempt from the responsibility of serving God in truth and righteousness.

    This was NOT an ordinary medial mistake…this was a highly serious and grievous offence that he allowed his flesh to promote. No matter his physical condition, he crossed the line by anointing a sinner over the congregation of the Lord.

    This is AMAZING!!!

  18. Btw,

    His statement, “may I never preach again” was 1- commensurate to the scale of his ministry and 2- judgement pronounced by his own wish, which is a way biblically that God allows judgement to proceed at times.

    Remember Jephithah Judges 11:1-11, 29-33 and the results of his rash words Judges 11:34-40

    Was this man a sinner? I think not. Was he an offence to GOd in this? YES! Was the judgement of the Lord upon him due to that offence? ABSOLUTELY! Did God honor his words? YES!

  19. doorkeeper:

    The fact that this man’s own prophecy was not fulfilled – that he did indeed preach after he made his statement – only provides more evidence that he was a false prophet. Had God honored his statement/challenge/command, God would have given Moales and the word coming from Moales an undeserved status by acting in response to his command/challenge. So, had it happened EXACTLY the way that Moales spoke, people would have said that Moales was a legitimate prophet from God speaking a legitimate word from God, and would have taken the action as a judgment on the wisdom of the decision to anoint Hawkins as pastor, not on Moales’ right to make such a statement, or on his position as a pastor. Instead, it appears that Moales himself was publicly judged by his own words and actions and the results thereof, whereas Jamie Hawkins’ fitness … I cannot speak to that, but the people who consented to allowing him to fill that post based on heredity know whether Hawkins fits the requirements of an elder in I Timothy 3 or not, so I will allow them (you) to make that judgment. I will say that had Jamie Hawkins qualified under 1 Timothy 3, Moales likely would never have had to resort to this stunt.

    As to Moales health issues … why would someone with hypertension, weight problems and stress issues make such a statement concerning his own life, take his own life so lightly? Now not saying that we are supposed to make oaths that put God to the test (remember the words of Jesus Christ to Satan?) in the first place, but why put God to the test with regards to your life if you are already very ill?

    Second, do not be so stubborn as to limit the way that God works. God is sovereign. God is omniscient and omnipotent. God knows all and sees all. God knows how history is going to unfold, and God both acts within history (called providence) and acts outside of time and history to interrupt the natural order (called miracles). God also knows the heart. So, you don’t think that God didn’t know that Bishop Moales was going to become obese and get stress and hypertension long before it happened? Or that Moales was going to make this rash statement long before he did? What are you, an open theist like Greg Boyd? Or maybe a process theologian?

    Let me give you an example. Remember when the Bible (Acts) said that Herod was smitten with worms on the inside because he did not give God the praise? Well, Bible scholars said that Herod likely had dysentery. But what prevents God from using natural causes to achieve His ends, especially since God created, sustains and controls nature itself? The idea that Moales had to be a 100% healthy man in order for this to be an act of God is fallacy, especially since people who are obese, have hypertension and are under stress have been known to live for very long times.

    Now I am not definitely saying that this is why Bishop Moales died, and for the record neither did the author of this piece. Instead, the issue is that the only reason why such a question exists about the death of Bishop Moales is his own words and actions. Had Moales not said what he did and behaved as he did, had he not put God to the test in such a public brazen manner, then this post would not exist. That is the real issue. Moales put God to the test and died shortly after. For the latter, maybe it was indeed simply his time. But for the former, he has no one else to blame. And I will say that my particular theological system does not allow for the existence of the thing called “coincidence.”

  20. Perhaps in the “anointed, but not ready” statement, he was thinking of David being anointed King while yet a shepherd. He was to be King at some point, but as we know, it took some time and turn of events for it to be fulfilled…just a thought.

  21. The first mistake Bishop Moales, said is when God takes, he gives? Which is that in the bible that God will take a pastor early in life. So in essence he said God gave Walter Hawkins cancer? His theology is off. Second, he spoke death over himself, Jamie who I know personally is a musician let the man stay a musician. He has never thought about being a pastor, Moales did the same thing to Pastor Timothy Wright’s son. Everyone can not be a John and Joel Osteen where the son has the calling on his life to follow in the father’s stead. The big issue in the church is pastors are creating a non scriptural act of placing their sons in the office of the pastor. Now its expected for a son who may be called to be a helps gift is now called to be a pastors gift. People need to be careful of the sacred offices, in the old testament they would fall dead for stepping into the wrong offices. Secondly Moales was hardly a prophet.

  22. gnp22, anything is possible, but Moales was no novice. This man had been preaching since 1968 minimum. As I said earlier in 1 Sam 16:1, GOD sent Samuel to anoint David. It was no act nor will of people. Certainly not ones in active rebellion against God.

    Btw, in case anyone is thinking this, I do not believe Bishop Moales soul was lost. I think as Pastor Burnett said, this reminds me of Moses who lost his place in the promised land because of his act of disobedience to God.

  23. Job, thank you. I couldnt have put that any better. One thing you raised is something satan presented to Jesus in the wilderness. That was the opportunity to tempt God which Jesus refused to do.

    9The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here. 10 For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully; 11they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’ 12Jesus answered, “It says: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test. Luke 4:9-12

    I think that Bishop Moales words did just that: provoked/tempted God. And he lost. Was it intentional? We may not know but someone may have said this before. Do not be the test case whereas God will have to show people that he is real and you cannot play him like he is a work of your hands.

  24. @gnp22 – Such a thing as with David is IMPOSSIBLE in the modern church. Given the new covenant direction for church leadership is not a matter of ceremonies and oil pouring. But first and foremost, a man measuring up to 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1.

    Also, “king” over old covenant Israel does NOT equate to being a church “elder”. The two roles are not the same and should not be commingled.

    God’s Word and His Spirit always remain in agreement. God would not give us scripture with detailed instructions and forsake His own Word. Moales acted of his own accord. And perhaps if the Lord willed, he repented of that sin before his physical death. I’m not trying to judge the fate of Moales’ soul, just saying it’s best if he didn’t leave this life ignorant.

  25. This is an clear example what the scriptures about people coming in the name of the Lord with a sign or wonder. The bible says,Deuteronomy 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

    2And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

    3Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

    4Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

    5And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

    6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

    The brother was moved the god of self/flesh and he led the people down the path of rebellion. By thinking that they can annoint someone else into a ministry gift that Lord may not have called that person. The Lord God will judge people from walking into another office if He has not called them. That is dangerous when take upon themselves to do something when there is not a grace to do so. This looks like He was judged according to the scriptures.

  26. He said, ” If i be a lying prophet may I never, ever preach again.”

    It seems that the prophecy actually centered around Jr. Hawkins being the successor. He further went into prophesying to him that

    1- in a year’s time he (Jr.) would “see God”, “the Levitical Priesthood”

    2- that the “seed was in him”

    3- God doesn’t “ask” him…

    4- As he was with Moses so shall he be with him

    5- he wasn’t ready but GOd was looking for his concecration

    6- He had to go where his father went into the secret place of the most high

    7- God would give him orders and direction

    8- That he would be like Jonah and make it up in 3 days ( I suppose this is his understanding)

    9- Everything that he didn’t understand would come open now.

    If the Bishop was a man of God (As I believe he was) but was prophesying wrongly, falsely or presumptuously, we would expect God to honor his request by allowing him to “never, ever preach again”

    I tend to agree with Job though and feel there is more here than initially meets the eye…He certainly did’t preach in a capacity commensurate with this type of demonstration again. The assumption is that he did preace hereafter. Can that be confirmed? I’m not talking about simply being at church or in the pulpit…I’m talking about preaching…

    Can someone deceipher 1 Kings 13 as it relates to this also?

  27. @Job:
    GREAT POST!! You articulated this very well…..hopefully those that persue this particular article will at least CONSIDER the foolishness of Moales’ actions/rash words……and also consider the possibility (and LIKELIHOOD) that God does indeed listen to our words/vows and still intervenes in the affairs of men..

  28. Pastor Burnett, Ive read 1 Kings 13 before and to tell you the truth it is quite chilling.

    I will read again to see if there is any relationship to this particular story.

    I will say however again that it appears to me the Holy Spirit was speaking to Moales trying to avert him from doing this, but his flesh overrode it.

    I was very disturbed at how he continued to goad the crowd to support him. Ive seen preachers do that on numerous occasions. They dont realize that they are bringing others into the danger zone with God by doing so. Ive taught my children and those in my charge to never agree, assent or say amen to something said in church which you know to be false or even if you have doubts about its truthfulness. I dont care who it is!

    Im not sure if Moales was referring to something spiritual or someone “kicking” against him, but he felt the support of the crowd at the funeral was necessary for him to proceed. Unfortunately, they gave it to him.

    And someone says “Let him hear what the spirit is saying!” around the 4:55-59 mark. As far as I can tell it wasnt anyone on the stage. What do you make of that?

    It mirrored what he was referencing in the illict consecration in the scriptures. The assent of the crowd overrode the will of God and Jehoahaz was put in a place he was never meant to be.

    Ive said it before and will say it again, everything in the bible is true, but not everything in the bible is truth (to be applied universally).

  29. Pastor Khary Donaldson said:

    Jamie who I know personally is a musician let the man stay a musician. He has never thought about being a pastor…

    ============
    I found that comment to be very interesting. One thing I’m really curious about; maybe someone can help me with this…

    Does anyone here you happen to know whether Jamie “received” that “prophetic word” or not, and whether or not he indeed sees himself as being the future pastor of that church? And does the church body as a whole see him as being their future pastor?

  30. Has noone posting ever met the good Bishop Moales? I have been in his presence. I have used a different post name to hide my identity. When I met Bishop Moales it was in the context of his role as head of the National Convention of Gospel Choirs and Choruses (NCGCC) also known as the Dorsey Convention; in honor of it’s founder Thomas Dorsey.
    It was painfully obvious to me that Bishop Moales was a man who struggled with his sexual identity. I won’t go into great detail but I was stunned at what I observed. I have attended the convention or it’s regional meetings on three different occasions. Each time seeing Bishop Moales confirmed to me my initial observation.
    I am not suprised that he would be mixed uop in the twisted and perverted doctinal/ministry of the Hawkins’ church.
    I know that was I am saying is subjective and based on my individual assessment. Take it for what it was.
    I have seen men in ministry who appear on way in the pulpit but in the company of gay males, in church meetings, the “flame” comes out so to speak. No doubt there will be those who will attack this post, okay, maybe its deserved particularly since I have chosen not to identify myself. I have friends who a e great admirers of Bishop Moales. Close friends. I do not want to affect my relationship with them to make this point:
    I believe he was removed: It reminds me of Annanias and Saphira.
    In my spirit I have been hearing since Thurday night; “The Cup of The Lord’s indignation is full.” More uncopvering and judgement and removals will happen. It is that time.
    He co-signed the Hawkins’ bastardized gospel, the Homosexual spirit that rules the NCGCC and acted as a prophet not speaking for the Lord but the desires of his own heart and dilapidated theology.

  31. secret, I believe you.
    One’s associations will most definitely betray them.
    There is much more to this that meets the eye or greets the ear. The Spirit of the Lord is grieved and our Father is angry that his name is being slandered and shamed by those who claim to represent him in the public.

    May God carry out his will to remove this reproach weighing so heavily upon us.

  32. How can anyone with any knowledge of Hawkins’ crew doubt anybody in their clique is soft in the loafers? SecretforaReason is touching on the matter that really overrides this whole deal. The whole Hawkins’ gospel is nothing less than a mess.

    Even before Carlton Pearson went deeper into heresy, there was the false Hawkins’ gospel.

  33. I believe the reason why Bishop Moales said that Jamie Hawkins wasn’t ready is because he’s not saved and he’s into R&B. plus the fact Love Center Church is an open church to gays. There in the choir, on the instruments and Bishop Hawkins never spoke to them about living a clean santified, spirit filled life. I kmow some people that went there and they said there was no spirit. If there’s no spirit, God is not there. God don’t work in mess. Anything that’s not spirit filled, God is not in it.

    If Jamie is not living right himself, how is he going to pastor a church thats full of mess that Bishop Hawkins had left. Love Center needs to be cleaned up. They need a seasoned pastor (someone that been in the game for 20 yrs or more) to takeover Love Center and let the Lord help him clean up the dirt and ungodliness from the pulpit to the door. Jamie and his wife needs to be saved and filled with the holy ghost and get into the word before he can pastor. If the rest of the Hawkins family is not right they need to get right also.

  34. Independent conservative,

    you are right to the bone (Sept.25th, 11:24am) Love Center church needs cleaning up and Jamie is not qualified to do it. I don’t think he’s saved. You can’t play R&B in the clubs on Saturday and preach on Sundays. There’s no spirit in there. Ja,mie is only going to add fuel to the fire. They should let Pastor Coleman have the job as long as she teaches holiness. Him and his wife needs to be fully delivered and saved.

  35. I guess sometimes God simply says: “Enough already.” Take heed Hinn,Copeland and the rest of their kind who pervert the Scriptures and claim God is talking to them and giving them special “insights”.

  36. I just watched the video of the “annointing”–what a joke–no wonder the secular world thinks Believers are a bunch of idiots.
    The “speaking in tongues” was embarrassing and painful to watch—look for a steady and rapid decline in the Bishop’s” church. Yet another church built around the personality of its leader. From what I could see, it looked as if the son wished he was somewhere else.

  37. Zeal with no knowledge is dangerous!!!! Didn’t God kill Uzzah(2 Samuel 6:7) for his zeal yet being in error? Doesn’t the Bible in 1 Timothy 3:6 say not to put a novice in a position as a bishop/elder/leader because they may get lifted up in pride? Moales was in error of the scriptures first and foremost, we have a more sure word of prophecy. Anointing Jamie Hawkins just didn’t line up with the scriptures plain and simple. Moales zeal and arrongance got in his way, by tempting God stating if he was a lying prophet he would never preach again( well that came to past). If the Holy Spirit is not unction you to speak, sit down and shutup. Zeal can get you kill.

  38. What I can’t understand. If Bishop Moales knew Jamie wasn’t ready, why bother to annoint him? Are the people leaving Love Center?

  39. lynne, I think somebody has said that his flesh, his arrogance and his pride overrode the Holy Ghost. Then he made a fatal boast. He said that Hawkins wasnt ready. He said that he wasnt gonna even do it. But what made him change his mind? pride, arrogance and flesh. Even the person who posted the video said it “surprised” everyone there.
    Its sad but people better get the message. God is not a man and he is not a Las Vegas slot machine. And sometimes He will react quickly to what we say and do. We should be careful about what comes out of our mouths and do not tempt the Lord thy God nor act presumptously before him.

  40. I’m kind of with DoorKeeper on this one; I get everything y’all are expressing, but isn’t it possible Moales had an “unexpected” heart attack because he weighed over 300 pounds?

  41. Okay, after going back and reading EVERYONE’S posts, i must admit that upon hearing the news that Moales had suffered a fatal heart attack, I found it rather bizarre that he died so soon after Hawkins and I was definitely irked at all this pomp and circumstance. But, Jamie’s lack of readiness notwithstanding, I think it’s rather tricky to allege that he’s just flat out unsaved (in spite of the fact that he has the temerity to play something other than religious music) – perhaps, a bit more hesitation with accusations of that sort would be in order.

    Not trying to be soft on God’s word, but I’m just sayin’…

  42. ….allege that he’s just flat out unsaved (in spite of the fact that he has the temerity to play something other than religious music)”

    So, Eric who alleged or said that? I didnt see that in anyone’s comments.

  43. # 27 September 2010 at 8:27 pm
    lynne said:
    “I believe the reason why Bishop Moales said that Jamie Hawkins wasn’t ready is because he’s not saved and he’s into R&B.”

    Trust me, I’m not trying to start a fight with anyone; I’m just saying that we should apply God-given wisdom and compassion. We need to pray for Jamie and the individuals at Love Center; if he’s stepping into a dynamic not designed for him, woe unto those that follow. It’s so easy to get caught up in the tongues and the frenzy of emotions in certain situations and it appears to me folks just got completely carried away. HELP, LORD!

  44. Well Eric its okay. Maybe lynne knows that he’s not saved. I wished you would have addressed your comment to her specifically and not generally since she appears to be the only one who said that.

  45. Regardless or not if Jaime is saved, this was not Prophet Moales place to “anoint” or “appoint” anyone…..Did Moales step in the shoes of God? Yes! And was his death a direct result of the words he spoke over himself? One must say yes according to what happen….

  46. “I believe the reason why Bishop Moales said that Jamie Hawkins wasn’t ready is because he’s not saved and he’s into R&B.”

    Lynne – do you have personal knowledge of this?

    “You can’t play R&B in the clubs on Saturday and preach on Sundays.”

    Lynne – If Jamie’s onstage with Li’l Kim and I.T., that’s one thing; I highly doubt he’s working with them. Either way, I don’t have a dog in this race – I think the whole thing was pretty ridiculous.

    GCMW: And if its so ridiculous and you dont have a dog in the race, why are you commenting?

  47. I’ve been to a lot of funerals (homegoings) and I have never known anybody to do what Bishop Moales did. He knew Jamie wasn’t ready, I feel he should have been left alone and let God deal with him. I have never heard of anybody annointing someone and turn around and tell them they are not ready.

    God always prepares a person for whatever task they have to face. I wonder if the Lord told Jamie that he was going to the next pastor?

  48. Pingback: A Toast 2 Wealth
  49. I’ve read on toast to wealth by pastor foster. From what I’ve read, Jamie has never preached at Love Center so how in the world can he pastored. Whats going to happen to Pastors Coleman & Mcfarland? I understand they were great leaders and should remain leaders. Because while they were in Love Center preacing the word of God, Jamie was out there into the R&B,hip-hop. Now he knows the bible. He should have been with his father all the time.

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