Alien tongues: Using the bible "divisive" says gay christian cleric

Its extremely difficult to imagine that a group of people who so adamantly insist they are Christians would be the same ones to wage war against the Word of God. But gay christians do and get a pass for the most part. But not here. This vicious group of smiling barracudas have caused more spiritual damage than islamic terrorists on 9/11.

The latest homosexual cleric to declare his hatred for God’s word is the Rev Erwin Barron, a Presbyterian minister in Hayward,CA. Barron “married” another man and was subsequently brought up on charges for violating church policy. The so-called trial was little more than a dog and pony show, given the spiritually bankrupt condition of the Presbyterian Church. But it happened nonetheless. And with predictable results. Barron was acquitted. Its akin to foxes putting another fox on trial for raiding the hen house.

According to the Christian Post which reported on Barron’s “trial”, he used the opportunity to recommend the church reject using the Bible when deciding on issues of homosexual morality.

The panel of the Presbytery of the Twin Cities Area voted 3-3 after a trial at Oak Grove Presbyterian Church. The decision fell short of the two-thirds vote required to convict the Rev. Erwin Barron.

A complaint was filed against Barron, who teaches at Chabot College in Hayward, Calif., after he married his gay partner, Roland Abellano in 2008. The two married in California during the few months that same-sex marriage was legal there.

Shortly after the marriage, Barron (at right with male partner) wrote several commentaries weighing in on the ongoing debate over homosexuality within the PC(USA) – the largest Presbyterian denomination in the country. He suggested that Presbyterians not begin with the Bible when addressing the issue.

So, just how does one become or maintain a status as a “Christian minister” if the person believes that using the scriptures is “divisive”? 2 Timothy 3:15 says the scriptures are able to make us “wise” unto salvation. Thus, refusing the wisdom of scriptures makes one an institutional fool. It personifies the conundrum religious homosexuals have created in the contemporary church. Anytime a blind person is put behind the wheel of a car, there’s no question death and destruction are inevitable. But that’s exactly what happens when people like Barrow are given the reins. More of his fallacious ideology:

“While Protestants always look to God’s word to guide them, Barron contended that Scripture is not the only source of moral authority.

“We also look to the continuing revelation of God in our experiences in history and tradition, in science, in reasoning, and in everyday events to guide us. Scripture and experience both must guide our moral decision-making. And reliance on one without the other can be dangerous and offensive,” he stated.
“Experience should lead us into the Bible instead of beginning with the Bible and discounting the importance of personal experience.”
“In our debates in the Presbyterian Church over homosexuality, if we begin with the Bible, we will likely reach a polarized stalemate,” he wrote. “Bible discussions are too often divisive. When we begin with the Bible, we are not beginning with a natural place for all of us.”
Rather than the Bible, the beginning point for discussions on homosexuality, he maintained, should be “the personal experiences we all share.”

Homosexuals claim they cannot help themselves when it comes to their sexual choices. It also looks like they can’t help themselves when it comes to lying. Barron folds into his anti-truth diatribe slithers of an old heresy called antinominanism. Antinominianism is a trick used by false teachers to elevate personal experience over scripture or established truth.

On its face, the antinomianist view is inherently hypocritical in part because it minimizes the written word in sexual and moral circumstances, but selectively uses it to support its own positions. Such beliefs are a dominant component of gay christian theology and account for the movement’s ability to look and sound Christian to those unfamiliar with its real beliefs.

In this case Barron  wants us to not consider the Word of God as basis of what is right and instead use personal experience —which are as varied as the fish in the ocean— as a canon of what is right.  So what if a person’s personal experience says that adult sex with children is good and right as long as its consensual?  That only leads us into the state of relativity where every man does what is right in his own eyes (Judges 21:25). And this doctrinal vomit is supposed to be accepted as Christian teaching?

This, brothers and sisters, is the consummate madness of our times. Gay christian vomit is applauded and celebrated while the good and perfect will of God is treated as if it were Hitler’s Mein Kampf.

And please do not mistake the culprits as some do. These are agents of satan who have cloaked themselves in white to appear loving and docile. They are like an infectious disease. But inwardly they are vicious wolves whose main goal is to tear down the authority and applicability of the scriptures. Barron’s entire argument is based on his presumption that consulting the bible only causes problems. Following the blind will lead you into a ditch. Proceed at your own demise.

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49 thoughts on “Alien tongues: Using the bible "divisive" says gay christian cleric

  1. “Institutional fool”…wow, you hit the nail on the head GCMW! Unfortunately, we are seeing more and more of these fools as the “inclusive homosexual snowball” gains more and more momentum! I for one WILL NOT be snowed over by it and neither will God’s true remnant! Carry on soldier!

  2. Oh how the denominations have fallen. A 3-3 vote shows you how spiritually dead that church body is……. why anybody would stay is beyond me. Get out of Sodom while you can.

  3. The really bad thing is that it is NOT just the denominations that are falling for this madness. It is spreading everywhere. I have cut ties with a long time friend because he has embraced this madness.

    GCMW [edited]

  4. People of God: That same anti Word of God madness has infected
    the Northwest Ohio Methodist Church with headquarters in Maumee, Ohio.
    Reigning Bishop Bruce Ough championed a Bill Brownson as the chief
    financial officer for our district. Brownson has confessed to being in a
    “committed relationship” (aka: sodomy) with another man for over twenty years but yet this “Bishop” championed his election in spite of such notorious and open sin.
    Rationale: the Methodist Book of Discipline and some “Social Principles” do not prevent a non clergy person who is in a homosexual relationship from being elected to such a “church” position.
    In other words, for this “Bishop”, it is OK to diss the Word of God when it speaks about prohibited sexual conduct and thus defer to the man made traditions of the Methodist Book of Disciplines and their “Social
    Principles” statements.
    I filed charges against this Bishop for such blatant disregard for the explicit Word of God and the Bishops who heard my charges eventually dismissed all six counts against him.
    In their dismissal, they did not use any scriptures to support their affirming decision (I used scriptures in my complaint charges) but simply defaulted to the Book of Disciplines and the “Social Principles.”
    Such is the blindness of some Bishops in the Methodist Church.
    They do not know about being led by the Spirit of God and they have foresaken using the Word of God as their primary text for teaching about righteousness and calling sin…sin.
    Needless to state, I will write a rebuttal and will leave it at that.
    If anyone is interested in the documents sent back and forth, I can send them to you.
    As you may know, the phrase, “committed relationship” is one of the new buzz words that the gay community is using to describe their
    same sex unions. It sounds so affirming.

  5. What I cannot understand is how quickly this evil has come upon us???? I will never understand that…..when I was growing up in the late 60’s and 70’s homosexuality was an awful thing..a shameful thing…..How did we get to this point where it is celebrated and admired??

    And even worse, in the Church now…the apostate church…

  6. Lafe like I said this is like foxes trying another fox for raiding the hen house. Or more reminiscent of the all white juries of the south trying a white man who’s killed a black person. The outcome is a foregone conclusion. These denominations like the OH Methodist conference are so far in their gay matrix world they would never find someone guilty. That’s about what these extra biblical “discipline books” and policy documents are. A way around having to deal with the truth of scripture.

    Good that you at least didnt take it without speaking up.

  7. Careful pastor, your other worse fear is coming true! Just last month….

    “Mark Riccobono has become the first blind man in the US to legally drive a car around a racetrack.

    The feat was made possible by a special SUV fitted with sensors that sends vibrating signals to his hands and seat telling him when to turn, speed up and slow down. The project is the product of years of research by the National Federation for the Blind in a bid to create a car that blind people can use to drive on the roads.”

    p.s. I know what you were saying. Frankly, I don’t really want to be on the road with blind drivers, no disrespect intended. The people who can see do a bad enough job.

  8. Maybe you should start loving with the Spirit instead of worrying about judging the “theological integrity” of your sisters and brothers. That job falls on YHVH. Many false-prophets will lead astray. In the past they’ve preached exclusion, demonization. Not much changes.

  9. If you look carefully at most Tenets of Faith, the first thing that is stated is the “Infallibility Of The Scriptures” or the “Inerrancy Of The Scriptures” or “The Bible Is The Infallible Word Of God.” These statements are important because all morality is based on the Word of God. Immorality has nothing to stand on except the demonic word of the devil.

    If the Christian is to be a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, you must be a follower of the Word of God. Jesus is the Personified Word of God or the Word in Person.

    So how can a gays be Christians if they throw aside the Word of God as a secondary thing? It’s clear to me that the bondages of their sin continues to blind their minds, lest they should believe.

    I mean, really believe and come out of sin!

  10. I simply wanted to appreciate you once more. I dont know the things I could possibly have achieved without the type of ways discussed by you regarding this issue. Previously it was a hard for me to understand. Now im thankful for the help and thus pray you find out what a powerful job you are doing teaching through the use of your blog posts.

    GCMW: Well thank you sir, we appreciate the appreciation. Keep studying God’s word and he will give you greater understanding.

  11. satan=====> Hollywood/Music Industry. When are gay characters not portrayed as witty, rich, good looking, and superior to their heterosexual counterparts?

    But its all an act, these Hollywood actors are some of the most tormented individuals in America, look at Charlie Sheen unwinding before our very eyes…..

  12. Christ provides two witnesses to the woman’s defense: the Son of Man and his Father.

    The difference is, Christ provides two witnesses to the woman’s defense.

  13. I am queer and I am filled with the Holy Spirit, and I love God’s Word and I live God’s Word as well as any man can: short of the glory of God. When I was growing up, I turned away from God because I heard that God hated me, and my brothers and sisters did not defend me before the scribes and the pulpit. When I found God again, when I realized God had never left me, I knew what the meaning of love is, and you can’t expect me to cast such pearls in this place under this banner. God bless all of you that you may know God’s Truth and God’s Mercy.

  14. This applies to you joey. Your explanation of validating sinful practice does not line up with the Bible.

    Romans 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

    The Bible judges your lifestyle choice as unrighteous and therefore unable to inherit the Kingdom of God.

  15. uh, Joey…? hello? Joey! snap back to reality. You never answered the question. Define love. Try not to give us 100 plus mini sermons on queer, hate etc. If you cant define love so we can have a decent exchange about the issue in context to your first comment, then just say so and we can move on.

  16. @Joey-Boy that was probably one of the most terrible exegesis of scripture I have ever seen. Well I know a bishop who could one up that but still, that was horrible. Did you even read what Jesus told the woman afterwards? Go and SIN NO MORE. He didn’t say go and continue to sin. Why can’t you just be “queer” as you put it, and leave the bible alone? Why must you buctcher God’s word to continue in your sin?

  17. brdavison look at the title of this article again and you will understand Joey’s comments better. 🙂

  18. Interesting, so by this logic then man who falls in love with his dog and sexual relations with them, should allow that experience to trump what God says about the issue.

    Suppose one enjoy’d killing people?

    I am just asking

    There can be no sin if left to what experiences feels right.

    Wait, It is not a pleasant experience to be disciplined, maybe we should forget about that. Many people are not enjoying being married or being in a one woman/one man relationship, or even taking care of their own Children so lets do away with all the rules that govern these things.

    That is really stupid from “Rev” Barron and those who are on the board or whatever, you have no shame!

    Unbelievable!

  19. I am filled with the Holy Spirit, and I love God’s Word and I live God’s Word as well as any man can: short of the glory of God.

  20. Read God’s Word and you will understand what Jesus drew in the sand. I am filled with the Holy Spirit, and I love God’s Word and I live God’s Word as well as any man can: short of the glory of God.

  21. Because I am filled with the Holy Spirit, and I love God’s Word and I live God’s Word as well as any man can: short of the glory of God.

  22. @Joey you don’t love God if you don’t keep his commandments. You have been deceived.

    If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

  23. I will try this again. Br I think you may have misused John 14:15 as well as made a poor judgment call concerning Joey. How can you say that Joey does not love God?

  24. advocate if Joey does not obey God’s will or his word concerning sexuality, its clear he (and anyone else in that state) does not love God.

    Jesus said “If you love me, keep my commandments”

    Conversely it should be understood that if you do not love God you do what ever you feel is right without any consideration for God’s standards. That’s why gay christians are spiritual aliens. They say they love God etc but their actions are polar opposite of what comes out of their mouths. Read the story if you havent and stop trying to make something evil, good.

    We dont have to be mealy mouthed about that when Jesus made it clear.

    Joey himself declared that he is a sexually active homosexual. What more do you need to make a biblical and righteous judgment call that he is not living in congruence with the will of God?

  25. GCM that question was actually for BR. Jesus made what clear? I know he made love clear. You do realize that rebuke is for reconcilation and not strictly for punishment. Some would say by the way you treat those who are gay that you show no love and you do not know God for God is love. Again you can disagree with people but you don’t have to demonize them.

    What did gay Christians ever do to you personally?

  26. I know who you addressed the question to. I reserve the right to answer anyone who posts on this blog whether you want me to or not. That does not prevent the person the question is posed to from answering so there’s no need for an objection.

    Now, that that’s clear, I do indeed realize that rebuke is not just for punishment it is also for reconciliation. I just rebuked you regarding questions on this blog. I hope that will bring an understanding and thus reconciliation. However if you reject that, you may find that your tenure here will be cut short.

    As it is with the Lord, his admonitions are for reconciliation, but a rejection his commands, will result in you losing your place with him. In Revelation 3:16 he states that he wants you to be hot or cold and if you decide —against what he wants— to be lukewarm/neutral, he will spit you out of his mouth.

    Im quite weary of people —when we talk about homosexuals— insinuating that it because we dont love them. Thats a tired argument and frankly a red herring. Its like saying a person cant walk and chew gum at the same time. Maybe you cant, but I can. We are commanded to tell the truth in love. We are commanded to expose the unfruitful works of darkness. We are commanded to put a difference between holy and unholy. And on and on. And remember if you love Jesus, then you will keep his commandments.

    As far as your last question would you ask David what did Goliath ever do to him personally?

    Whoever you are an advocate for, make sure you are an advocate for God and his word FIRST. Anything else will be met with stiff resistance here.

  27. The Bible is divisive because Jesus Christ said that He didn’t come to make peace but to separate the wheat from the
    chaff, the sheep from the goats. It’s an oxymoron to believe that God made people gay. The Bible says that God is not a
    man that He should lie. If Jesus Christ delivered me from the sin of homosexuality and Joey says he’s a gay christian, then
    God is a liar. Why would He deliever one and not the other since we both have confessed our sins and repented. I no l
    longer engage in sexual activity with other men because Jesus took that desire from me. 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess
    our sins; He [Jesus Christ] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.” I’ve been
    cleansed of the unrighteousness of homosexuality. So Joey, I must ask the question, who’s right, you or God?

  28. Steve I agree with you 100%. In addition I do want to point out this nuance. The gay minister is saying using the bible is divisive rather than saying like you the bible is divisive.

  29. I declared that I am queer and that I am filled with the Holy Spirit, and I love God’s Word and I live God’s Word as well as any man can: short of the glory of God.

    What is the one sin for which you cannot be forgiven?

  30. to say “Gay Christian” is an oxymoron… there is no such thing as a gay Christian… there are however Christians that struggle with the sin of homosexuality… i also remember back in the day when the gays admitted that it was wrong but claimed that it is somthing that they are strugging with, now the gays are saying that it is right for them to be gay and it is right with God as well….. ridiculous…. the advocate person is a heritic supposed to be minister… he struggles as well but is married… go figure….

  31. Lets just take a test Joey. You say love God’s word and you “live God’s Word. Great. Let’s take a quick test.

    Love test first

    God’s word says:
    Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 5:3

    Question: do you love what God says here prohibiting men from having sexual activity with other males?

    Live test second:

    God’s word says:
    Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 2For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 6That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 7For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 1 Thess 4:2-8

    Do you live your life according to this word of God?

  32. Are you in charge of testing people’s faith now? I wouldn’t want that hanging over my head.

  33. Joey, with this scripture we’re going to bring this (at least your part of it) to a close.

    Matt 7
    […] Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

  34. Yes I do…

    I hope you know what you are doing by spreading your lies and leading people to spiritual death…..

  35. The Truth is divisive. So this “Cleric” has just confirmed that darkness hates the light! “When we begin with the Bible, we are not beginning with a natural place for all of us.”
    hmmm, what or rather where is a natural place for all of us? Is it wrapped up in our feelings? (where does that lead) Satan was wrapped up in himself and look where he is(and will be according to Revelation)

    The Light of God’s word blesses and ministers to us that love HIm. However when we are deceived, His Word then becomes an offense.

    So how does one call themselves a “Christian” and not believe in the infallibility of scripture? They can claim that name all day long, but God does not acknowledge them as of Christ.

  36. I want to thank you for you diligence in exposing these heresies and standing on the infallible word of God. I am a church leader who fell into immorality I committed adultery. It is websites like yours that preach truth in a climate where people are encouraged to do what ever makes them happy, the truth is that the Word of God is right and he is calling for holiness not happiness sometimes living holy will require you to make decisions that wont be happy ones, but God promised to keep us in perfect peace if our minds are stayed on him. After reading your article on Pastors and adultery, I left my mistress, reconciled with my wife and recommitted my self to the Lord my family and congregation. Thank you and may God continue to bless you as you continue to preached the Word of God.

  37. Tony there is no greater joy than to hear that one of the Lord’s children has forsaken the wrong and returned to do what pleases the Father. Walk worthy of your calling and stay faithful in all things.

    All glory and praise to God!

  38. Christ defended the woman’s life, not her sin. She was about to be stoned to death, not with words and hate-speech, but with real stones.
    Her accusers brought her to Christ stating she was caught in the very act of adultery – a sin. Jesus confirmed it was a sin, by saying ‘let him that is without sin, cast the first stone” (a real stone,) Her accusers consciences picked them and they left one by one. (typing this now, I realised that when Jesus said “let him that is without sin, cast the first stone”, He was taking authority over their urge to stone the woman, just like when he told the raging seas to be still, they HAD to obey Him.) The mob left them alone, and after speaking with her and telling her that he did not condemn her, Jesus told her to “Go thy way and sin no more”. Proving that in the eyes of God, sin is still sin, and if we’re sinning, we need to stop.
    and Jesus Christ

  39. I just want to clarify for those that do not know PC(USA)= apostate hot mess. The PCA church stands for truth all day everyday so please do not lump all Presbyterians in with these people.

  40. @ Joey, I read this thread with interest. I heard and understood everything you said and if I didn’t know God’s Word for myself, I would actually agree with you. But I can’t. gcmwatch and brdavision are correct. You can’t say you love Jesus, yet refuse to obey His commandments. But I can tell you exactly why you’re having such a hard time reconciling your Christian beliefs and the lifestyle you have chosen to lead. You may have accepted Jesus Christ into your heart as your Savior. I can’t see your heart and only God really knows, so I’ll take you at your word. But Joey, have you made Jesus Christ the Lord and Master of your life? See, this is why Jesus said in Matt. 7:21 that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom. Yes, there will be “Christians” in hell.

    See Joey, salvation is 2-fold. First, a person accepts Jesus into their hearts and they are saved. John 3:16. But it doesn’t stop there. Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound? God forbid! Romans 6:1. Jesus expects us to be changed from day to day into His image and likeness. He expects us to present our bodies daily to Him as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God. Romans 12:1. In other words, you must make Him the Lord and Master of your life. Only then can you be fully delivered from the lie that satan has placed in you. I hope you stick around. These guys are Biblically sound. You’re in a good place.

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