Michael Pitts, Brandon Porter, et al discuss homosexuality

Via the Word Network comes a very interesting exchange about homosexuality and the church from a panel of ministers. It was in response to a question sent to the host for discussion.  This facilitated by Bishop Greg Davis and included Bishop Micheal Pitts of Toledo, COGIC Bishop Brandon Porter of Memphis, Pastor Cheryl Brady now in metro Dallas, Pastor Darrell Scott of Cleveland Heights, OH, and Bishop Iona Locke

The conversation is interesting because the participants as far as their public ministries are concerned haven’t done anything they suggest is the answer for the problem of homosexuality in/and the church. None of them have held any public forums, conferences, workshops on the issue when they do have conferences. No ministries, no nothing as far as I can tell. It makes you wonder if they are serious about making a difference or just pontificating like most of these preachers do when they get on television.

Not to diminish the panel discussion because some very good points were made. But if the discussion is about solutions, how much longer will it be before they do something?

Pitts seemed to be pushing a mild form of the gay inclusion doctrine but considering his associations and other sins, its more likely he was pushing cover for himself.  Or other fig leafers he has hosted at his Toledo church. Pitts even repeats the now debunked lie about the church divorce rate.

The conversation almost gets hijacked by Pitts when he raises questions about love, so called homophobia and tolerance. That should be a settled by now. Yes, we are to love, no we are not homophobic, no tolerance is not an option. Now, can we get to solutions?  To be bluntly honest, if the church expects to make some traction it needs works (discipleship programs, ministry options, fellowship opportunities, gender specific workshops, issue specific printed ministry materials, etc). By and large these type of critical works are near absent in the church.

And making homosexuals “welcome” to the church isn’t entirely the answer. All should be welcome, but welcoming someone, is only a short step on a long journey.

Challenge to all these pastors, bishop, apostles, et al who are supposed to be EQUIPPING the saints: stop talking and prove that you really want to see homosexuals not only delivered, but after deliverance grow into mature men and women of God. That’s the goal and if that’s not your goal, then congratulations on another useless talkfest.

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21 thoughts on “Michael Pitts, Brandon Porter, et al discuss homosexuality

  1. That’s what is needed in the Body. Solutions. Actionable Biblical solutions to a serious but solvable problem. The time for talk is over. Until we have “a mind to do the work” we are still an indirect or direct part of the problem.

    That’s why in the Fall, our church plans to have workshops which includes…you guessed it, this very agenda. Talking and preaching is one thing. Providing solutions is another.

    Thanks for confirmation and being on point once again Pastor Foster.

    I’m back on Facebook but in a lesser capacity.

    God bless.

  2. A question for Bishop Iona:

    What does the bible mean when it says this:

    “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.” 2 Corinthains 5:17

    @Pastor Cheryl Brady-Amen….(even through the bible does not support a woman PastorChurch Leadership 1 Timothy 3)

    Is this the best panel of Christian Leaders they could get?

    Isn’t Bishop Greg Davis the guy who Pastor Barnett blogged about?

  3. People of God: It may have been a “nice” conference but its message
    was grossly diluted, in part, by the women posing as a pastor and the other posing and imitating an Apostle.
    Sorry ladies, the Word of God and especially the pastoral epistles do not give any room or credence or support or affirmation for a woman to be either a pastor or….this is a laugh…an Apostle.
    Who in the world appointed Iona Locke as an Apostle? Was it self appointment or one of her friends or a “pay as you go” group that will give you a title for a fee?
    When I last saw her in action in Toledo,Ohio (she normally hangs out with Pastor Patricia McKinstry)she was simply a low level “bishop” who drive a Bentley and had a squad of “armor bearers” running around the church with headsets on looking like the Secret Service. She was not even an “arch bishop” at that time!
    Titles….titles….titles…How people grasp for titles and recognition but if you were to ask Iona or the lady pastor about being content with the title of Servant….they would get hot under the collar and say that you are a trouble maker!
    What a joke…everyone wants a title to seem important or to raise big
    fees at churches and conventions. Simply do the work of an “apostle”
    or pastor without wearing a ten foot high neon sign directing attention to yourself.
    Flee such people…for they are out of order and are not conforming to the Word of God. When they are told that the Word of God does not support their desires to be pastors or apostles, why do they insist and continue in this fallacy?
    Because the flesh wants it way and it wants to be pampered and adored and recognized and be given plaudits and everyone knows that with a title of pastor or “apostle”, doors will open for your title leading the way!
    How far we have strayed from simple Bible faith but now it is about me and my title(s) and you submitting to my title!
    Note to women pastors and women “apostles.” The greatest in the kingdom of God are those who serve….servants….not titled or degreed persons who wear their title like a badge of pride.

  4. okay, okay fellas we get it! The woman is not supposed to be a pastor or an apostle, etc. But that’s way beside the point of the post. Lets not go off on unnecessary tangents.

    If a woman pastor will help homosexuals get free and stay free, Im all for her. Just like if I was drowning I wouldnt care if the KKK threw me a rope, just help me.

    This issue is a kingdom concern and while I am not on the woman bishop bandwagon to a certain degree, I can attest for a fact that I have seen and worked with more women pastors who reached out to help me in this ministry than men. So again, lets keep things in context, the solution to the homosexual issue in the church is not a tight theological argument against women pastors.

    The harvest is too plentiful and the laborers are too few. Titles do not help people get out of bondage, people with a heart to serve do. Lafe you said it best, simply do the work and let that speak for you.

  5. Pastor Foster I’m not trying to further instigate, but if the kkk threw a life jacket to you their lifestyle would still be sinful (contrary to the word of God).

    And just because they (women in christian leadership) work well, doesn’t mean God approves of it.

    This is the way I feel, but I won’t say a word about it again…..

  6. If the Church can’t agree if “women” are allowed to preach, pastor..or whatever…than how in the world is the Church going to be able to minister to these homosexual men and women who study the bible more than anyone I know…granted..they study to prove their point and make thier case so they can continue in sin…but at least the Gay community is on one accord with their message,beliefs and teachings as it relates to the Bible….

    Get it to gether people……..your back and forth on women preaching only ties into the point or message that Gay Christians (not really) preach…..

  7. Brandon, the issue here isnt that God approves/disapproves of women pastors, et al but that the church has no works to show that it is serious about the deliverance and discipleship of homosexuals. So far lots of talk, no fruit. That should get us back on track.

  8. @ Lafe, great post! Apostle Iona??? Really???
    Matthew 23:5-12 (NKJ)
    5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ,[b] and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

  9. Thank you gbg11 –great point and something for us to chew on.

    I suppose we are comfortable with allowing a woman the role of a “Prophet”, “Teacher”, or even “Evangelist”, but somehow the other 5-Fold Grace Gifts are not “ok”. Not to mention that scripture does not suggest anywhere that women or forbidden from ministering and preaching. BUT –I digress… as this is not the focus of the above article.

    imo… Cheryl Brady summed it up. It’s sin. It’s not an “issue”. We have to call it like it is, in order to be able to help those who struggle. (Speak the TRUTH in love.)

    It’s not an IDENTITY (as w/ male and female)…. It’s an ACT. And I agree w/ GCM Author: Where are the programs designed to help these people??

    And WHO called these characters to take the temp. on the “church”?? Michael Pitts of all people?? He has not only made fun of homosexuals… but knowingly allowed those practicing to sing on his platform. Hello?? smh

    I have always had a heart for those who struggle with homosexuality. It’s not enough to break the perverse spirit off of them. They need someone to help walk them through the damage that has been done to their mind and soul as well.

  10. To all posters, we welcome and appreciate your comments on this article and its contents. Please be informed this article is not about the legitimacy of women pastors et al. If this is something you want to discuss, there are many places on the internet where you can register your feelings. Any further comments making reference to such on this post will be deleted. Thanks for keeping the conversation on the issue at hand.

  11. I would like to hear feedback from others on this question:

    If (5) Fold Ministry Gifts are for equipping the saints for the work of the ministry -Why then do the majority of Pastors think that simply inserting the “love others in their sin” suggestion (into their weekly messages), is somehow addressing the problem??

    Why do they keep skipping over the “hands on” of equipping the saints? Imagine if the Body of Christ was fully equipped to reach out to their co-worker, friend, sister, cousin, etc that are truly struggling in this particular stronghold? I don’t know of many homosexuals who are flooding the churches on Sundays and being delivered in droves by a Pastor’s 10-second reference.

  12. Its not we have to believe the Power of God is able to transform a sinner into a Saint. A loved sinner is still a sinner, repentance, submission and obedience to God and ALL of His Word is necessary for sanctification.

  13. Pastor Fostor I do agree with you that the church needs to offer solutions. but I must say that we can not provide solutions until we begin to address why so many men and women involved in homosexuality in the church (from the pulpit to the door?) The first solution is that the church needs to get back to Holiness and stop conforming to the ways of the world by trying to be “relevant.” Secondly, men and women that have been delivered from homosexuality have to step up to the plate and show others that God can deliver them also. It seems to me that they are hiding or ashamed to talk about it.

    Currently, my church offers a restoration program for those struggling with that particular sin. The problem that they are having is that many of those men and women struggling with it refuse to attend or even be apart of the program. So what do the program counsellors do?

  14. Christie, I am going to send you an email.

    I agree with you very much. Thanks for sharing that.

    I will say this. We have advocated consistently for a radical return to holiness on this blog since day one. We have spoken out and opposed those who are trying to guide the church into a cesspool of relativism.

    We have also featured the testimonies of those men and women who are indeed stepping out and “up to the plate”. See here and here.

  15. You make a good point Christie in regards to Holiness!

    Imo, I think we have to do both simultaneously:
    Correct those who have hijacked our message of truth WHILE equipping the Body to bring restoration to those seeking freedom from homosexuality.

    Paul gives (2) instructions in Tim. when dealing w/ False Teachings:
    1) Exhort Sound Doctrine
    2) Refute those who contradict it

    If we wait for those on the platform to “get free” before we can offer solutions, we might be waiting until Christ returns! For some of these leaders have departed from teaching The Way and that is WHY they are not able to set folks free. Some are even creating an atmosphere that breeds all sorts of lasciviousness, since they themselves are not living a life of holiness.

    The bottom line is this culture has been infiltrated with all kinds of sexual perversion and this generation has been programmed to accept it as “normal” –this has compounded the Church’s problem.

    It’s time for a revolution of TRUTH within the Body of Christ! And when we begin to boldly declare this truth in love, then we will cross the line of demarcation. And those who do not adhere to the truth of God’s Word will be standing left behind because it will be OBVIOUS that they bear no FRUIT.

  16. I would like to comment on my appreciation of Pastor Foster and the work he is doing here, and the passion he has on this issue. Quite frankly I had a thought (a pentecostal would say the Lord spoke this into my Spirirt….) that it would be the homosexual issue that literally closes the doors of the church. So to speak. I believe that it will only get worse and that at some point a law will be passed attached to the Hate Crimes bill that outlaws the bible from being used to teach from. At some point these gay bishops and leaders will get tired of dancing around the fact that the bible is a book in totality. It is complete. It is God’s message to us. Everything in the book speaks of God. You can pick and chose all the scriptures you want to try and make your particular point…but at the end of the day….The star of the bible God the Infinite Creator of the Universe who says ….” homosexulaity is an abomination.” Under the incoming new legislation…the bible will qualify as Hate Speech and will HAVE to be banned! They can’t have it both ways. So at that point through the convinience of the 501-c3 government contract….in order to keep your tax free status and actually stay out of jail…you must not teach from the Bible. This will seperate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. And we will see exactly how much chaff there is out there.
    I believe we are the generation to witness this event. Remember God was so moved by sexual sin in Sodom that he sent angels down to check it out and then brought judgement to that city. I believe that next time God comes down to bring judgment it will be in Rev. 19:11. Soon!

  17. I’m glad more awareness is being sought in the Body of Christ, particularly among African American believers, on the subject of homosexuality. We must advance this from awareness to an active practice of our faith.

    In some of the posts above, some are of the opinion the church needs to embrace holiness instead of relevance. I don’t understand how relevance in juxtaposition to holiness is opposed to one another. The issue among those who struggle with this sin or any other sin, as a Christians, is to do as the Lord commands, live holy. That’s the point of the issue – HOW do I live holy? How do we all rid ourselves of the sin that tries to grip u, is the question sincere gays are asking.

    As for this subject of relevance… Relevance is just a word that describes something the church ought to ALWAYS do and is the necessary consequent of brotherly love in action. The apostle Paul says in 1 Cor 9:19-23 that he became all things to all men that he might win some. The ministry of Christ epitomizes relevance. Christ was at one point the WORD, but became a man and took on mortality so that he could reconcile us back to God. Love unconceivable MOTIVATED a holy and PERFECT god to put on flesh so that he could save us. If God used the same approach some us keep speaking of… “JUST BE HOLY,” none of us would know Him because flesh would be too weak to rise to God’s level.

    RELEVANCE properly understood friends does not mean we stoop or compromise with those who are struggling, RELEVANCE means ACTS of GRACE and MERCY are extended so that those who are struggling can come to where we are.

    The reason why we are confused and wasting time arguing about whether we need more relevance or holiness …. is because we’re not actively doing the things we have been taught. We don’t know what walking in love means from day to day, moment by moment. No gimmicks are necessary. The resolution to is to love people the way Christ loved u when u were in your mess. The scripture says by loving-kindness has he drawn us. I think we need to figure what does kindness means….

    Some of us have not experienced the love of God beyond our intellect and Sunday school lessons…. that’s why we don’t know how to empathize and love those who struggle with sins we’ve personally never had to face. On the contrary, I also understand that many people will not come to God regardless of what we do, no matter how much love we express because they love their sin.

    Our prerogative as believers tho is to simply love unconditionally all those that come our way, whether they receive it or not. Just love….

  18. I dont know about others comments G Lee, but I dont understand the quest for relevance when holiness (the principle and the command) need no relevance. Same yesterday, today, even forevermore? It is relevant without us ever attempting to make it so. It is timeless and needs no help or propping up.

    God’s law doesnt need updating. Live holy, stay holy, be holy. What needs to be added to that? Do we need to make it sound good or box it up in a valentine’s heart? Sooner or later each person will have to face the truth of Hebrews 12:14. Follow peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord.

    As a friend of mine said once, we dont need to photoshop the truth.

    We have to be careful taking 1 Cor 9:19-23 out of context if cannot be applied universally. For instance, if I want to win a drag queen to Christ, must I become like them, etc to win them? Would you? And what would that look like? I understand completely Christ coming as a man in sinful flesh, but the application on our level would be quite challenging. Christ humanity was a composite of all men, not a specificity.

    I dont think we are confused at all and certainly not “wasting time”. If we are please catch us up and tell us what you have done specifically that will get us up to speed. Discussion with the intent of getting at solutions is needed on this issue.

    You said gays are asking the “sincere” question how do I live holy? I think you are confused about who we are talking about here. We are not talking about sinners i.e. “gays” here, G Lee, put brothers and sisters who have come out of homosexuality and are striving to live holy. Thats where SOLUTIONS matter most. You may need to read again. This blog typically deals with two groups: apostate gay christians spreading false teachings and true brothers and sisters who have come out to follow Jesus.

    Sinners, whether homosexual or not simply need a savior. From there we progress.

  19. “Be ye HOLY, for I am HOLY.” The Good News of the Gospel hasn’t changed almost 20 centuries and is always relevant….that’s what makes it SO powerful! It STILL fixes our everyday modern messes…

    I am of the persuasion, that we do not “water down” the MESSAGE to make it more palatable or “non-offensive”. Jesus Christ himself came to offend. He did not change his message one time. He gave us examples however of taking this truth TO those who are culturally different –woman at the well for example…

    The Truth of God’s Word never changes. But what does vary at times are the METHODS that are used to deliver the Message. You may have the same PIZZA from Pizza Hut, but the vehicle that delivers it may vary from a Bentley to a Ford Explorer… depending on what “vehicle” is delivering the goods.

    This is partly what Paul was saying to the Corinthian Church in (1 Cor. 9:19-23). The point is that we “become all things unto all people” depending on what they NEED and WHO they are. If someone is hungry, I come bringing food… therefore I may gain an open door to present what is really needed -the Gospel.

    Paul is also speaking to us of CULTURAL differences. For example, if I traveled to visit a family living in rural Asia… obviously their traditions are going to be different from mine back in America. So, we don’t change our message, but we may change the presentation so that it can be understood. You have to reach people in the CULTURE in which they live in. This doesn’t equate to watering down the truth to make it PALATABLE or “non-offensive” by American standards. But if we have to get down on a dirt floor and eat food that back home may be considered “unclean” by our standards, so be it!

    Like Bro. Foster said, God isn’t going to direct you to sin in order to be “all things unto all men”… this is not what Paul is saying either.

    In our modern American culture, if we still used Sunday School felt boards with little cut out disciples…. Most the our teens today would just laugh. But if we incorporate technology, then sure… their attention may be sparked. (Albeit, sometimes a good old fashioned cup of coffee and 2 hrs. of your time can also do more than all the technology in the world combined.) Again, “BE all things unto all men”…. Find out what their needs are, fill those needs and by this demonstration of love –they will be open to your message.

    I hear you Bro. Paul, we need SOLUTIONS! I think this open dialogue is the very place for that… thank you for offering this avenue to those who are serious about discussing it. At the end of the day, “splitting hairs” isn’t going to get anything done. But at the same time, we cannot allow ourselves to become divided over those little things….let’s keep talking it out until we come up with the solutions!!

  20. good discusion on this you-tube clip. I have been raised and a born again christian in the penecostal church for over 40 years. I feel a weak area of the church is failure to address godly principles involving stewardship of money, sex, and marriage. Too many christians have financial debt, the divorce rate of the church is the same as the world, and church sexual problems mirror the world. Satan’s strong tools are sex and money and i feel the church is not combating these areas strong enough.

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