Open Forum XI: Final destination?

Open forum time. Lots of people want to talk about lots of things off topic. So here’s your opportunity to speak your mind. To kick off Open Forum XI, let’s see what you think about heaven, hell and people who die.

Generally, when somebody [famous] dies, people are quick to teleport them into heaven.  Death seems to jumpstart the whole issue of whether we (as the Body of Christ) know or don’t know where a person will spend eternity. GCM Watch looked at this earlier, but its time to revisit it again.

Currently, the argument(s) goes something like this:

Nobody knows whats in a person’s heart, therefore a person could repent at the moment before they die and get into heaven. Only God knows if a person will go to heaven or hell.

But is that true? Are we completely in the dark about a person’s final destination after they take their last breath? And if we can’t know about a person’s after death destination, then are we expected to know our own? If we dont know where a person will spend eternity, then why is heaven always the default? If we are so sure about heaven, why all the doubt about hell?

Your turn. Tackle this, or take it in another direction. Its Open Forum on GCM Watch. Standard commenting rules apply.





17 thoughts on “Open Forum XI: Final destination?

  1. I think in general this statement is true. At the end of the day we don’t know what is in someone else’s heart. God has shown that he is a forgiving (thief on the cross) and can forgive someone at anytime even up to the time of their death.

    That of course assumes that the dying person has the state of mind to call upon Jesus for salvation. It is highly unlikely that someone who has rejected Jesus all of their life would at the end of their have the presence of mind to call on Him. I used the word unlikely because it is not impossible.

    How can they call upon whom they have not believed in? How can they believe in someone whom they have not heard (about), How can they hear without someone to preach (tell them). If a person has rejected the message of the Gospel, for years, what makes us think that somehow at the time of death, that mind will be somehow changed to now embrace the “Good News”? You can only reject the truth for so long before you become blind to it.

    The Bible is clear that without accepting Christ and His finished work there is no hope of salvation or heaven.

    It would seem from the clear teaching of Scripture that the ‘default’ place is not heaven after all,

  2. Pastor,

    An extremely timely and thought provoking article. I’m reminded of what the Lord said, “You shall know them by there fruits” and “Unless a man be born again, he shall not see the Kingdom of God.” We see the situation w/Cornelius whom the scripture calls a “devout” man, but yet had to accept the plan of salvation (some would disagree w/that statement I’m sure). We see an erray of incidents pertaining to King Nebuchadnezzar, who on certain situations praised the God of heaven, we see him not committing to Him (like some of us do).

    But then we see the LORD striking him down w/a disease or phobia for 7rs. And when the the LORD allows him to regain himself, he sees the LORD in a whole new way, not simply externally praising him but it appears internally. I’ve often thought of that episode and asked myself, “will I see Nebuchadnezzar in the Kingdom of God.?” We see the situation w/Judas whose betrayal was prophesied (some would say he was born to do what it is he did) where is he, I believe his fate was sealed, being overcome w/guilt not sorrow as Peter because we all have opportunities to repent, for noone on the day of judgement will be able to say, they didn’t have an opportunity, for the books shall be open showing otherwise. We know that there are people in hell right now that lived better moral and upright lives than most of us that are saved (we know that we know), but their there because they didn’t make a decision based upon, “For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOMSOEVER BELIEVES on HIM shall have everlasting life.”

  3. If a person goes through their entire life a sinner, never desiring or seeking God and salvation, when that person dies, they leave this world lost without hope. We judge them by their life (fruit) what did they produce that shows they were a believer or non believer. I have been to funerals of friends who died in their sleep who once knew the Lord, but sin and a Godless lifestyle took them from the trusting arms of our saviour. I went to this persons funeral and immediately, in my spirit, I knew, I can’t tell you how I knew, but I just knew that this person did not make it. I was literally sick and when I left the mortuary I felt a relief just to be out of that mess.
    There are other times I believe we don’t know for certain, but I remember one night while in prayer I was asking God about people who never get that chance for salvation, and God spoke to me very clearly and I’ll never forget this as long as I live, when God said to me, “I give every one a chance, there is no one who leaves this world without having the opportunity for salvation.”
    I knew of a man who had open heart surgery, he was a hard sinner, lived hard all his life, my pastor went to see him to tell him about Jesus and salvation. The man turned to him and cursed him to his face and told him to leave and to never come back for he and his Christ was not welcome there any longer. As my pastor turned to leave and was almost out the hospital room door, he over heard this man tell his wife to go and get him a beer, within seconds of telling her that, he dropped his head suddenly and died, they could not revive him. This man is now in eternity forever and I can almost be certain he is in hell. Sometimes we just know and sometimes God will let us know as well to warn us not to be playing games with life and eternity.

    Just my thoughts.

  4. Well at Micheal Jackson’s funeral they put him everywhere in every religion. Truthfully we know his soul is asleep waiting to be awoken at the 2nd rez to be judged and then thrown into the Lake of Fire.

    The “Get Saved at the deathbed” is no absolute either.

    John 6:44″No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

    Somebody could definitely “Accept Jesus into their hearts” right before they are about to die and still not be Saved.

    Matthew 7:21″Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

  5. I think people are taking a one time occurence and trying to make it a general practice(gp). Possibility forecast: slim to none.

    Not everything that happens in scripture is intended for universal principle or practice. “Deathbed” conversions is definitely one of them

  6. Bucket to the left……..

    But seriously, I remember coming across this video a while ago, and found myself not being able to get through it either.

  7. Another problem of the is talking a baby sprinkling a little water over their head and then proclaiming they are seal by the “Holy Spirit” and cannot lose their salvation no matter how sinful they live. That of course is a lie from the pits of hell.

    Something I feel we all need to be careful about is letting culture determine who is in Heaven and who is in Hell. Not even Carlton Pearson or Rob Bell is going to say that Hitler isn’t in hell. Even though both by their own teaching HAVE to give Hitler a pass. Bell went down the easy path and played on peoples ignorances about Gandhi. Pearson and Bell would never get on TV again of they said those words.

    Hitler (all sinners) is going to suffer eternal punishment because the BIBLE says so not because of any man made reasons or taboos.

  8. Jesus said no one came to Him unless the Spirit of God draws him. Someone here said, & it bears repeating, it’s not likely for someone to hear & reject the Gospel & go their own way all their life, come down to the final hour & then truely believe. I’ve heard stories of people who came down to the wire so to speak & couldn’t believe. They knew the truth but couldn’t receive it because their hearts were hardened. Remember, the Lord said His Spirit will not always strive with men. Can a person repent on their deathbed? With God all things are possible. My advise is don’t wait or bank on a deathbed conversion. You may not have one.

    That heaven is the default destination is just proof of our falleness. In spite of how wicked we know we are, we anticipate good things. We feel we deserve goodness & peace when what we really deserve is damnation. I was watching a reality show where this “celebrity” met with a big name in christianity. As for as I know, this woman has never made a public confession of faith in Christ. Judging from the roles I’ve seen her play, there is no possible way for her to be a true christian. When she met with this so-called minister, all she could talk about were her financial problems & why she didn’t have an ecstatic experience in church like everyone else. This guy, this minister to the stars, never once mentioned anything about repentance & being born again. Nothing about getting right with God. In short, she left that meeting just as lost as when she came in. Remember when Jesus said the Pharisees made their converts more a child of hell than they were? That’s all I could think about. When preachers don’t even tell the lost they are lost, what do you expect?

    Tonex/B-Slade & his ilk never really knew Christ. If they did, they would continue in the truth. They never really received the truth. They never really repented. They know nothing off the holiness & righteousness of God. His word has no place in their hearts.

  9. Right after the 3:00 mark he says something very revealing…..

    ” I was living out my salvation vicariously (which means to take part in the experience or feelings of another) through my parents testimony” …. and now I’m finding out how my friend really are and who God is”.

    Salavation through Jesus Christ cannot be lived vicariously through anyone else’s testimony.

    God has no grandchildren.

  10. Tonex calls himself real, authentic, an honest man. In truth he is an unrepentant liar and adulterer, who was sneaking around behind his wife’s back, has anyone even heard of him thinking that was wrong?

    Every Time you come in contact with him your going to B-Slayed in the Spirit…… I had to correct him on that one.

  11. The irony and sadness of the video with Tonéx is when he kinda testifies the truth about his life and doesn’t realize it:
    If you listen closely, it went kind of like this:
    Tonéx: Oh look, the light went out… (the truth that He is in the dark)
    Kris: Don’t worry about it. It doesn’t matter… (the lie told to the lost about repentance by those who themselves stumble into ditches)

    They don’t even know it. Smh

  12. Just to clarify, it’s at 5:11 right when Kris asks him about if he thinks homosexuality is a sin. His exact words were, “The Light just went out.”

  13. What we are hearing is the spirit of the world: post modernism or relativity as the scriptures declair “everyone did what was right in his own eyes” or self justification, if such is the case then as the scriptures say “Christ died for nothing” (gal 2:21) B- slades ‘message’ is one of gross compromise, (which what he meant by reaching a new demographic) the world will never tolerate the Christ of the bible b/c “he came to bear witness to the truth of the world that its deeds are evil” ( john 18:37)
    Jesus said ” if we were of the world they would embrace us, the world loves its own, but since we are not of the world (system) the world hates us, remember- he said the world hated HIM b4 it hated us”
    ( john 15:18-21)
    men honor him with their lips but their hearts are far removed from him, people must understand that they are sinners & rebelled against Gods holy law and repent just like we once did “because men love darkness rather than light because their doings are evil, all who practice evil hate the light lest their deeds become exposed” (john 2:19-21)
    The Christ that loves ‘unconditonally’ is another jesus of another gospel (gal 1:7-9)
    Nowhere in scripture do you ever read of Jesus compromising his message and mission with the Sanhedrin, Pharisees & Sadducees thats why they hated him and conspired to murder him who knew no sin who did no sin. If you abide in my words you are my disciples indeed -Jesus

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