There’s few, if any, organizations of Christian belief that have not seen substantial challenges from religious homosexual activism. The acceptance of homosexuality —unlike other sins— presents significant changes in fundamental doctrines of the church: sin, repentance, deliverance, biblical inerrancy and authority, even the nature of Jesus Christ himself. Although we previously had not heard much corporately from the various splinters of “oneness” adherents, they too are in the throes of struggle.
Ergo, several years ago, prominent bishops from leading apostolic organizations met to affirm their stance on homosexuality and same sex “marriages”. The International Christian Apostolic Fellowship included Bishop James E. Tyson of the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Bishop GM Boone of the Apostolic Assemblies of Christ, Bishop Jeremiah Reed of the Christ Temple Apostolic Fellowship, Inc, Bishop Willie Duncan of United Apostolic Churches, Bishop JE Moore of the Pentecostal Churches of the Apostolic Faith, Bishop Joel Trout of Impact Apostolic Ministries and Bishop Nathaniel Urshan, former General Superintendent of the United Pentecostal Church International. No doubt these are familiar names among those who attend the noted churches.
The meeting discussed what the Apostolic leaders deemed major challenges and doctrinal issues confronting the church. This particular segment focused on homosexuality. Bishop Jeremiah Reed mentioned (but got off track) that he knew one person who was “totally delivered”. It would have been an greater testament to the leaders if they had all acknowledged the reality of deliverance for those bound in homosexual sin.
While we can appreciate the unanimous solidarity with scripture against homosexual conduct, one wonders if these bishops and leaders spoke out against the current occupier of the White House and his overzealous affinity for homosexuality.
Your comments on the video statements welcome. This post is not an endorsement of apostolic doctrine so please withhold comments regarding that issue.
Gay Christian Movement Watch 
Seems pretty clear to me. No room in the church to argue against
So FullGospel, if there is no room to argue, why do you suppose there is such a battle raging inside the church over homosexuality?
Pastor Foster I’m struggling to keep the the topic here….But I will be obedient lol
I believe the battle is raging because so many are actively committing this sin…..
How can you speak, teach, or preach against something you are doing?
So true, can’t get rid of a theft problem until you acknowledge, confront, clear out all the thieves who have access to the money. We have a problem with that too 😉
But all the homosexual pastors kids, music ministers, youth leaders, etc… need to be sat down until they testify to being filled with the Holy Ghost.
brdavision…that may be true and a component of the issue, but alone its somewhat simplistic. I was asked that question on an interview last week. I think that when people see this in simplistic terms it prevents them from applying holistic solutions. Like I pointed out the bishop’s condemnation of homosexuality per the scriptures is commendable, but do we stop there? After all condemnation doesnt save.
Same thing with what you said Lapreghiera. These days sitting somebody down is tatamount to giving them their favorite lollypop. There are way too many options they have. Sitting them down doesnt solve a problem, it creates another.
I was hoping also to hear FullGospel’s response to that.
I hope that my comment does not seem off topic here, but I think that there is a bigger issue here. I believe that their doctrine does have a lot to do with why people are struggling so hard with sin and this sin in particular.
When one has a misunderstanding of the basic nature of God, the Holy Spirit and how He works in us, who Jesus is and what He came to do, then on top of that they add to the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross (meaning really the sufficiency of His work on the cross is denied) one can not fully trust what Jesus did to be enough for their sanctification.
This goes for any false doctrine. So here in this instance we probably won’t see a real plan laid out because that doctrine really prevents that possibility. How can you really apply holistic soulutions when the ONE those solutions should be based upon is slighted an misunderstood?
CJ, point taken. So how you explain how those with “true” doctrine are in the same miserable pit in terms of how they deal with homosexuality. If the others (non apostolics) have the right understanding of the nature of God, why is it they are doing no better than those you say have a faulty understanding? I mean we have documented that hundreds of times here. So help me understand the difference when we see the exact same problem both with those who as you say have misunderstanding of the basic nature of God and those who do understand. And Im applying this question corporately.
Pastor Foster you and I know very well that all those who profess to be saved are not. Paul was very clear that practicing sinners shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10) And Paul was also clear that saving faith is in Christ alone for salvation. (Eph 2:8)
As cross Journey indicated apostolics have an erroneous view of salvation, God’s Nature and Jesus. With all that error their cannot be true saving faith thus homosexuality is as rampant among them as the unbelievers.
well said CrossJourney…
Well what I know is that you did a good job of sidestepping my questions above.
I understand your objection (to my post? the video?) seems to be apostolic doctrine. If that is the case, like I posed to crossjourney, if your argument is that apostolics have wrong doctrine, what is your defense of those who have “right” doctrine but are doing the same, if not worse than the apostolics? And each of the bishops who spoke in the video were 100% correct in their assessment of the homosexual condition. If their doctrine was skewered wouldnt they have said something that would nod to their doctrine? I didnt hear any of that, did you?
When you mentioned “practicing sinners” and “unbelievers” who specifically are you referring to?
Gcmwatch posed the question if any of these Bishops in this video have they supported the current occupier of the White House. I don’t think any of the men shown in the video support the current White House adminstration?
However, former Presiding Bishop of the PAW Bishop Horace Smith of Chicago did attend that abomination of easter prayer breakfast that the President had back in April.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/foster/4889362-452/a-wonderful-farewell-party-for-mayor-daley.html
And one of his biggest supporters in Chicago area was the late Bishop Arthur Brazier Apostolic Church of God in Chicago, President Obama spoke at his church on Father’s Day 2008.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/arthur-brazier-apostolic-church-of-god-obit-105548668.html
You would think both these men(Smith and Brazier) weren’t ignorant of the doctrine President Obama sat under for years under false pastor Jeremiah Wright affirmed homosexuality, yet still support him.
Thanks for that info, shofarsound. Of course its an assumption which can be proven wrong, but I suspect all of them on the platform, like most black church leaders have given uncritical support to Obama. Given their statements in the video, that’s an ironic tragedy, but one that highlights in part why the black church is in the spiritual vortex its in.
I didn’t side step your questions Pastor Foster. But I addressed your main point head on:
You said: “what is your defense of those who have “right” doctrine but are doing the same, if not worse than the apostolics?”
First doctrine doesn’t save anyone. Faith in Christ does. However you cannot have true saving faith in Christ unless you have sound doctrine. Those who claim to be saved yet practice sin are not saved at all. No believer practices sin. Though we may sin from time to time we cannot practice it. The bible is clear:
“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:” 1 John 2:1-5
Those who don’t keep God’s commandments (sound doctrine) are not true believers. I think that’s a pretty clear answer….
My response was aimed at the statement of NOT dealing with the doctrinal issues. I was not saying that there was anymore within churches with bad doctrine than those that have correct doctrine. Whether one believes correctly and has the correct object of faith is based on correct doctrine. Now, if one does not APPLY their faith then no matter how much correct doctrine a person knows they will still struggle.
Those who have correct doctrine are not any better off if they do not apply their faith period! I am simply addressing a component of the problem specific to the Apostolic doctrine that makes it difficult at best to come up with a sound plan of action to help those who need it.
Those bishops were right on with what they said, but I believe that they will still fail at helping those struggling when they can’t point them in the proper direction. That is all I am saying.
Thank you.
This is what I was trying to convey.
Good article by gcmwatch. All sin has the wages of death but the sin of homosexuality and the spirit of it should be confronted by the church. Sexual sins has not been confronted strong enough by the church and unfortunately sex sins has been a main weapon of Satan to take down pastors and ministers along with church members who have not repent and forsake such sins. Now the godly has to step up confront this sin in society and in church, because these gay activists are bold as even and coming after the pulpit. But we have the victory over this sin and Jesus blood can set free.
Politics, christians first must pray against homosexuality, teach against it, and cast these spirits out. Politically we must get involve more than ever. Call your political representatives and know what they stand for. I made numerous calls and e-mails to my senator, he and his staff know who i am. They need to hear from us.
Now the democrats are not the kennedy/johnson party of the 60’s, these are now progressive liberals democrats who are pro gay and same sex marriage and pro abortion, so christians have to stand for biblical principles at the ballot box. I gave President Obama the benefit of the doubt, but he came to new york to help push same sex marriage and now its law in this state, not to mention a lot of gay policies he signed. But i feel all christians must know what all politicians stand for before they vote.
CrossJ I prefaced that by saying the post was not an endorsement of apostolic doctrine (last sentence). You responded by saying you “believe that their doctrine does have a lot to do with why people are struggling so hard with sin and this sin in particular.”
But you havent made that case. How does apostolic doctrine make people struggle with homosexuality harder than others? Especially when this is a major issue of equal weight among trinitarians?
You also said you “believe that they will still fail at helping those struggling when they can’t point them in the proper direction”
Whats your basis for being so sure they will fail?
If they tell them to repent from homosexuality, or draw closer to Christ, or discipline themselves per the scriptures would this be failing to point them in the proper direction or is there something different you should tell a Christian who is struggling with homosexuality?
Raising your point has done little but take us into an unnecessary trajectory which is why I placed the disclaimer on it in the first place.
Brdavision Im still not sure what bearing your points have on the truth spoken. Truth is truth even if it comes from a donkey. When a person affirms the truth of scripture why is that not good enough? You seem to be want to penalize the donkey for speaking the truth. Even if components of their doctrine is based on a misunderstanding of scripture, it doesnt negate the truth (God’s) they spoke and affirmed in the video. The same truth you and I affirm.
You are presenting contradictory statements.
On one hand you say doctrine doesnt save anyone, then Then on the other hand you say those who “do not keep sound doctrine are not true believers”.
I still dont understand who you are referring to when you say “practice sin”. Are you talking about homosexuals?
And finally, in the verse you cited, what commandments of Christ did the bishops break in condemning homosexual practice?
So my question wasnt answered, it just raised more questions. Something I tried to avoid by placing the disclaimer at the end of the post. To be honest, I think this is an unecessary distraction to this post.
When the church started condoning adultery within the ministry and the flock, this opened the door to a softening stance on other sexual sins, including homosexuality. This includes the flock turning a blind eye when ministers and deacons were having adulterous affairs with church members. This hypocrisy acted in the same way that termites do, eating away at the moral foundation of the church.
Oh gcmwatch I know you were NOT endorsing their doctrine. I only pointed out that it is difficult to come up with a plan of attack when your idea of the only One who can deliver you is skewed. if you can not point people in the right direction then it will be hard for them to be delivered.
you said:
“But you havent made that case. How does apostolic doctrine make people struggle with homosexuality harder than others? Especially when this is a major issue of equal weight among trinitarians? ”
It does not make their struggle harder, but it does make their deliverance harder! I stated my position poorly I see now how it came across. I said this it goes for ANY bad doctrine. I even stated that there is no more of a struggle among apostolics than trinitarians. Any doctrine that pulls you away from Jesus Christ being sufficient does in fact make a homosexual’s deliverance harder.
Even if you are under sound teaching, when faith is not applied to that sound teaching you will struggle and be miserably saved.
I believe those with sound biblical teaching can in fact be more effective in laying out and implementing a sound scriptural way of helping those that are struggling for freedom than those who do not have a proper understanding of basic biblical principles. Most churches that are preaching error are not even interested in helping those struggling.
gcmwatch said:
“Whats your basis for being so sure they will fail?
If they tell them to repent from homosexuality, or draw closer to Christ, or discipline themselves per the scriptures would this be failing to point them in the proper direction or is there something different you should tell a Christian who is struggling with homosexuality?”
I should not have said that they would fail. The only message for anyone that is struggling with any sin is the above as you have stated, and if they teach that then fine. But What if your understanding of WHO God is, Who Jesus is, and how the Holy Spirit works are not correct? What if your understanding of basic salvation is not right? How can you get to your destination of freedom? This is where I am coming from.
I am sorry for taking this post in a direction you did not intend. My only hope was that we could at least factor in the issue of a wrong belief being at the core of some who struggle, and that these bishops may be able to point out the sin yet not be able to adequately help those among them in need. I do so apologize for making this something you did not intend.
Absolutely!
You may see it as a distraction Pastor Fostor, but I see it as polemics needed. Apostolics believe in a false Christ. Plus they add works to Christ’ work on the cross. That is a grievous sin (Pride) and those who follow their doctrine will be in trouble come the judgement. That’s the message that needs to be conveyed to those who are reading.
Homosexuality is a sin. That hasn’t changed. Those who practice it (meaning to commit the act and that includes effeminent behavior, indicates that they have failed to truly repent) will have their part in the lake of Fire along with adulterers, murderers, rapist, and all other un-repented sinners.
Believers will struggle with sin. And I’ll use myself for an example. I struggle with lust towards women. I have always struggled. My flesh yearns to have sex with has many females as I possibly can but, the Spirit of God that resides inside of me convicts me of that desire. Daily I die to myself and I discipline my body and keep it under control (like Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:27) and I keep living for the Lord. This desire I have, is the result of regeneration provided by the Holy Spirit. Not of anything I have done.
I do what the bible tells me and therein I have my deliverance or at least my struggle until God takes me home or until He sees fit to completely deliver me. Homosexuals must do the same thing. Turn from their sin and follow the word of God.
They must truly be saved first…..
Brdavision, God is sovereign. He always has been and he always will be. Whether apostolics (or anyone else for that matter) believes in a false Christ is irrelevant to the sovereignty of God. He is able to draw people out of the deepest of dark places whereever they may be. Truth from him can break every shackle; open spiritually blinded eyes. Its a fact that he has called many out of darkness, out of false teachings and out of bondages of all kinds. Dont think for one minute that the sovereign power of God is blocked by someone’s false belief. He is well aware not only of what people say, but their intent even before they say it. Yet, he saves…and delivers. That’s the hope we have, otherwise all of this would be in vain.
You and crossjourney have had your say and Im sure others have read it and hopefully see you point(s) as to whether or not they are necessary additions to this post.
Having said that, we’ll bring this line of discussion to a close.
Soon my Apostolic Church will be making a BIG announcement…and we are now an independant church because of what has happen and where God is leading us. Pastor Foster my coming out to my family and congregation was the best thing that could have ever happened. Thanks for everything. But I will not be visiting this sight anytime soon. But when it is made public my name and my church..you can blog about me and my church as well.. I know history will be made..
God bless