A new book written by gay author E. Patrick Johnson, a professor at Northwestern University in Evanston,IL contains a rather overt assertion that gospel music industry worker Walter Hawkins and his brother Edwin are homosexuals. The Hawkins brothers are gospel music industry “icons” and leaders of the Music and Arts conference. But they are also in Johnson’s book Sweet Tea . The book uses an “oral history” format to tell the stories of homosexual men in the south. The author contends these stories needed to be “documented.”
One of the interviewees describes meeting Bishop Walter Hawkins and brother Edwin and the late Rev. James Cleveland:
GCM Watch has reported on both Hawkins and Cleveland here and here, not to foster gossip or innuendo but to show that the roots of the gospel music industry have been irrigated by dirty water. The spirit that is fairly dominate in the gospel music industry was in part, ushered in by these men who still are revered and idolized by the unrepentant homosexual community in the church. And yes, they are largely responsible for the current sordid state of church music.
Sad to say, those who were tutored by them have the same spirit. I call it an “associational anointing”. In this case, its a transference of spirits by familiarity. That is not a good thing. Unfortunately, it has become entrenched in what should be the most glorious music on the face of the earth.
Strangely, there have been no known protests, denials or rebuttals of the book from Hawkins.
ADDENDUM 04.21.09
A very interesting article related to this story from the Chicago Tribune. Couldn’t find the original link. In it, Johnson says many contemporary gospel artists are gay, even if they do not acknowledge it publicly. That statement can be viewed two ways. To the gays in the church who already know this is true, it provides a sense of empowerment to continue in a sinful lifestyle while claiming to be saved. However, from a biblical perspective its error to allow someone who lives a consistent lifestyle of sin to hold positions of influence in God’s church.
Gay Christian Movement Watch 
Just out of curiosity: what if they are, you know, actually gay? How would you respond to that?
EDIT: My bad, I completelt misinterpreted what I was reading. Apologies.
I grew up listening to the Hawkins Family’s music and have most of their projects. To date, their music still blesses me after all these many years and is scripturally sound overall.
Although I wouldn’t want anyone to be a “castaway” (1st Corinthians 9:27), fortunately, the truth and the Word of God stands alone and people can still become saved by the power and spirit of the Word of God itself, even if the “carriers” (i.e., preachers, gospel artists, etc.) aren’t “living it” (Philippians 1:15-18).
GNP22, thats the tragedy of it all for these men. To become castaways when they dont have to be. I understand what youre saying. Its one thing to sin and perhaps not influence others. Its another when you influence others to live ungodly.
I too have listened to and sung the Hawkins music. I dont anymore. If I could say anything to them it would be stop singing and repent. There is nothing worth losing your soul over. Not even gospel music.
Sure as long as there is breath there is hope. However, God’s spirit will not remain with those who consistently grieve him with sinful disobedience.
If the Holy Spirit leaves and no longer convicts you of sin, where do you stand? If Im correct, there is no other way.
GCNP22, I can understand your sentiment. I grew up listening and singing to their music during the late 70s/early 80s (primarily Tramaine Hawkins)–even recently burned a tape of her music.
The underlying factor I see with this whole thing is influence. As GCM has pointed out below, “It’s another when you influence others to live ungodly.” Black people, in particular, are taught to toe the line w/o question if they are to receive any type of attention in those circles. I say this specifically, b/c of the heavy-handed “leading” to assimilate in order to be considered a “somebody” in these assemblies. Have no distinction between the holy and unholy; if it gets people out of their seats to scream, shout and pay adulation for the performance, nothing else matters.
Yes, it is truly sad, indeed.
is this music anointed? if what is stated is the truth, how can the anointing be on a corrupt vessel?
bitter and sweet cannot flow from the same fountain, so how can the blessing of god be in the music made by devils?
i dont know how much of their music is in the church…i have really given up listening to just about everything.id rather listen to a good sound holiness message and cancel out the flesh/feel good fest in the music industry.
but can someone give me a biblical example of anointing on a corrupted vessel?
also, i dont think music qualifies as the word like preaching/teaching. not at all part of the five fold ministry and is not to be used as evangelism tool; its supposed to be worship to god.
If they are gay, that is something that they will have to answer to God for in the dreadful but beautiful day. What we as saints of God must realize is that we are all human, but there comes a time when we must seperate ourselves from certain people and certain things that may detour us from God. Take the story with the woman who was caught in adultrey. God did not tell them to bring her here and I will stone her to death. All he said was, he that is without sin cast the first stone. I know a lot of people look at homosexuals different than they would a drunk and prostitute or drug dealer, but the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth tells us that no sin is greater than another. Even if they are gay, God is still with them, he said if I make my bed in hell, he’s there, if I make my bed in the deepest sea, he’s there. Let’s just pray for them, because the prayers of the righteous availeth much.
sorry for overlookin the scripture up top (phil 1 :15 -18). that’s a good scripture; but i have a hard time squaring that with the music industry, and anointing.(holy ghost) its just not part of the five fold ministry. i see it all the time that people are so overwhelmed by the singer/organ and get all happy and no one’s life changes. just emotions and feelings.
i guess what im getting at is how can a devil deliver or set free another. christ said a house divided against itself cannot stand. only conclusion i can come to is that a devil of higher authority can remove that devil, but will only do so to replace the weaker devil. so you;re worse off than before.
also, the lord inhabits the praises of his people, so if you’re not his, he won’t come in. so if he doesnt come in, who does?
many will say havent i cast out devils in your name, and he will turn them away. but that doesnt necessarily mean that they’re still casting out devils, but does (to me) suggest that at one time they may have been saved and able to cast out devils and did.
sorry for any confusion in my rant, but im still not satisfied on the original question with that verse.
Brother Thomas, sorry youre only telling half of the story.
Every self proclaimed Christian is required to be accountable to the church. Per 1 Corinthians 5, no one is free to do what they may and claim the name of Christ without any accountability —here on the earth— to the physical church.
Sure we will all stand before God, but that does not cancel out what is required for the church to do before that time.
You seem to be taking John 8:1-11 out of context. No one is calling for the stoning of the Hawkins brothers or any other homosexual as that resolves nothing at all. Calling them into honest accountability is on par with what the scriptures teach.
Finally, you say that God is still with them as unrepentant homosexuals,. Im not sure how you justify that but the Bible (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) says “your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.” Isaiah 59:2
That doesnt sound like a cozy- all-is-well relationship with God to me.
God still loves us even if we sin, but unrepentant sin destroys our relationship with God. Why would any Christian want to continue in a lifestyle which destroys our relationship with God?
P28, in today’s church you’d might get stoned saying that the musician/music minister/psalmist/minstrel/artist and other names they are referred to are not part of the fivefold (or fourfold) ministry. These people have equal if not more clout than pastors, evangelists, prophets and apostles and its completely out of biblical order. Instead of putting them in their proper place in the church (as you said music is sacred for the worship of God) many are using them as emotional candy. False teachers, false music to cover for it.
Questions for DL:
Was God still with you when you were in homosexuality?
Didn’t he protect your life while you were in your foolishness because he had a plan for your life? In order to protect your life from disease and destruction, He had to be with you..right?
Do you think God stopped protecting the foolish and canceling plans for people who act foolish after He did it for you?
GCMW: Henry, those are good questions. You may be assuming that I was a homosexual while claiming the name of Christ.
I was not saved nor did I profess to be a follower of Christ. I did not live my life in the church and had little to no regard for what the Bible said about what I did. In the blindness of my sin, God had mercy on me and then saved me out of my sins.
That’s a completely different scenario with a person who claims to be a Christian, saved and walking with the Lord, yet continues in unrepentant sin. Thus, Isaiah 59:2 was not written nor intended for sinners, but God’s people. Please note the difference.
Its rather presumptuous to think that just because you know God, he is required to have mercy on you. Read Romans 6:1. Also God “protecting” you from physical death and danger (which He certainly did for me) is per his mercy which the bible says he shows to whom he will (Rm 9:18), not everybody en masse. But again we’re not talking about whether or not God is protecting the Hawkins or showing them mercy, but the Hawkins’ unrepentant sin and encouraging others to live in like fashion.
P28nine.
the truth is that the word is the word…a house divided against itself will fall.
your conclusion of a devil of higher authority removing a devil and leaving weaker devils sounds really really strange.
If a devil is being cast out, folk are being healed then God is in the place. the vessel will always be marred. always.
Henry so by the “vessel being always marred” you dont mean that its okay for people to sin and claim marr-dom do you? I mean what is Jeremiah 18:1-6 teaching us? That in God’s hands we will be “always marred”? To what degree? Yes, we are marred (experience conflicts of interest) in the sense that we are in the flesh, but the requirements of holiness dont change because of that. Grace is applied, but should never be used as cover for one’s sins especially when repentance is part of the equation.
the word is the word, but with music we’re not getting just the word. and the devil used the word, incorrectly, to offer his deception every time.
my example, to clarify, is of a high level devil removing the weaker b/c he’s stronger and replacing the weaker with himself. that’s what i believe is a lying wonder. the devil is the cause of sickness so certainly he knows how to remove what he placed there in the first place. rememember, the magicians did the same signs as moses for a period of time. and simon the sorcerer was famed for his ability to work miracles.
thats what he does in the book of revelation to deceive the folks is try to pretend to be like jesus and display the power of god and turn folks from the truth. satan dont have the power of god; he knows that. so he knows that he must win by distraction and confusion; remember, we perish for lack of knowledge. and jesus was stating here that the devil aint goin to work against himself, so you have to be wise and recognize his tactics to effectively remove him, which is our job.
i just cannot fathom having hands laid on me by a whoremonger. or having my kids have a pervert sing to them. the devil can only offer part of the truth b/c he’a liar and thief; was from the beginning. so we’re going to get a seemingly harmless song with something out of line spiritually b/c he’s still influencing that corrupt singer/producer. but there’s always a consequence.
i had strange nightmares from listening to a so-called gospel mix cd. words were good and i didnt think much of it at first. the songs were popular, but after that nightmare i recognized subtle hints of jazz and r & b in it, i knew for sure there was a foul spirit attached to the music b/c the artist compromised somewhere.
you think these lustful spirits goin around in the industry arent transferring to the local church who sings these artist’s songs? singing about jesus, glorifying something else, and devil comes in unawares. remember, the devil wants in the church not to do away with the church, but lead it.
im not sure what you mean by saying the vessel will always be marrred. i hope thats not a we all sin argument. that argument is supported in no part of the bible.
GCMW,
I have nothing but respect for you my brother. As far as the Hawkin brothers, its never been a secret.
false is so true. this is coming from a bass player/singer. people want to praise you for your ability, but im just there to praise god in my own way, and help you praise him and be on one accord in celebration of christ. but they think my ability to play is automatically anointing. i know mine is b/c i couldnt play before i got saved and have only been sold out to playing for the church (for free what happened to that). so in a matter of a few months i went from not knowing how to play a note to playing for the state choir. nobody but god can give you those kinds of music lessons.
but ive seen how caught up in the music people are. theres a pastor i know wouldnt preach his message without music, and the sad thing he was preaching on maintaining the holiness standard. he kicked a young organist off the organ while he was preaching; told him he wasnt good enough to play for him, and was out of sorts until his hired organist came back inside the church from his smoke break. this is so comical (not funny) that these clowns in the pulpit can preach that message and contradict it at the same time.
false false false, absolutely right gcm
No, I didn’t mean that it’s ok for people to sin. Jeremiah18 teacher us a lot of things. For one it teaches us that sometimes while he’s shaping us ‘again another vessel as it seems good to Him’, there is a marring effect that is present. So, I’m not saying that we will always be marred, but most of the time…most beleivers have marred places in their lives. all of us do. even after we’ve repented of ALL our sins and now we’re flying right and perfect and driving the clean train…lol…most of the time…we’re still marred.
You say that marring is because we are in the flesh, but i believe that it’s deeper than just being in flesh, because flesh is common to man. but as God teaches us a lesson through the potter, i believe that he is talking to the believers. the marring he’s talking about are the issues and struggles and things that we are working out and working on at all times…and for some that includes sexual issues.
And as it refers to the hawkins…there are so many unknowns that it’s hard to really judge…i don’t know if God is making them another vessel again or not. I don’t know if what they’re going through is what will seem good to Him. there’s just so many things that we don’t know…but 1 thing I do know…
I’d rather be marred in His hands than out of His hands.
Thanks for your clarification of the high level and low level devils, etc. I understand what you’re saying.
You said “the devil is the cause of sickness so certainly he knows how to remove what he placed there in the first place.”
My concern there is why would the devil remove the sickness? John 10:10 is very clear about his mission. Kill, Steal, Destroy…and sickness does all 3…so, why would heal anybody he wants dead?
Simon the sorcerer was a self proclaimed sorcerer. The man practiced sorceries, and that’s different from gospel music singers who are in sin. does being in sin equate to known sorcery?? It’s one thing to be in sin, but it’s quite another to claim sorcery and proclaim yourself to be great (read Acts 8:9-11) And the other magicians may have done the same signs up moses, but did moses perform a document healing that was copied by the magicians?
To me it sounds like you’re saying that sin automatically means that a person is a sorcerer or some evil person that practices magic. The bible says that the deciever and an antichrist can’t even confess that Jesus came in the flesh. (2 John 1:6-8) If they are confessing Jesus coming in the flesh, then how can we automatically label them as a devil?
And as far as you not being able to “fathom having hands laid on me by a whoremonger. or having my kids have a pervert sing to them”…
That’s your personal choice. But the truth is that you’ve probably had that experience and didn’t even know it, unless you’ve had the privilege of discerining everybody that prays and or sings to you or your kids. That still doesn’t stop the power of God working for you.
Just because they are perverts, whoremongers or whatever….God is still God. I’ll end on this…
If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny who he is. (2 Timothy 2:13)
why would he remove the sickness? to give you a false sense of security – and try to show u that his format is just as good as god. its deception. make you think it was god so that you continue in a compromised state where he can come back in with something else to destroy you. i think this was addressed in the first one, but maybe it needs to be repeated for clarification. he will fool the very elect if possible, if you let him convince u its god.
you’re right. steal, kill, destroy is what he’s doing. u ever had someone steal something from you right in your face while you watched them do it. NO, thats not possible. but they wait for you to let your guard down and take it from you unawares. so when you realize its gone, you cant account for it, and dont know what happened.
some of us are dying a slow death spiritually b/c we ignore the truth about these pastors and singers and continue to follow their false teaching, doctrine, seduction. and we lose spiritual authority little by little and are killed off.
and when we get to our weakest point, he destroys us. finishes us off. something too much for us to handle comes along and we cant believe god would allow it, so we begin to reject god and question him and backslide. and the devil has destroyed us.
this is not an over night thing. the devil uses these three things in his plan. like i said we must recognize his tactics to remove him.
lying wonder is absolutely what these perverted singers are. they confess with mouth but heart is far from the lord. so mouthing the words, singing the songs, pretending to be sanctified is a lie. thats what the devil does. presents counterfeit. so in the hoax of praise they offer, you’re exposed to a corrupted spirit.
so the tingling feeling you get when they sing, and the tears and emotions is not the holy ghost if they are in a unrepentant sinful lifestyle. its more than likely your own shame and guilt for living foul yourself when you get overwhelmed in this type of atmosphere..
simon the sorcerer was an example of having power to do signs and wonders. it doesnt matter that he exalted himself, but that only reminds me of what these singers and entertainers do. they promote themselves and exalt their own talents and place themselves between you and god. they like simon want people to worship them.
as far as moses is concerned, moses worked many miracles. but he refused to have the people worship in egypt to protect them from believing the egyptian idols had any connection to the true and living god. he asked pharaoh to let them go three days journey into the wilderness for this reason. to make sure they recognized the true god. egupt has many false gods. if things happen in the presence of those gods u think they were part of it. that why it was so important for god to attack all the gods in the plagues, to show the difference.
so as i said, performing a miracle is not a sure sign that they;re saved. in neither of these examples did you refute the fact that the sorcerers, simon and with moses, showed some power.
furthermore, some of these men and women were once saved and have a documented miracle. but what about their present condition. that is what im concerned with. used to be able to cast out devils is not sufficient. lord, i cast out devils in your name. and he’ll turn them away. they may have once been saved. but the bible says Jesus blots out some names. so i cant go on past performance. so a documented healing they couldnt perform is irrelevnt. they did turn the staff into a snake, turned the water to blood, produced the first 3 or 4 plagues. but they aint got the power of god workin in their lives.
and someone that is openly unrepentant i would never allow to lay hands on my children (i have none right now) but i wouldnt let them touch me neither. remember paul told timothy forsake not the gift that was given by the laying on of hands. that happens when you expose your kids to perverts and foul people. they are spiritually “christened” if im allowed to use that word for the devil with contrary spirits. parents are to protect the children not expose them to mess.
god dont allow me to see everyone, but i aint no fool. if you singing the songs of someone thats openly foul, it tells me something about your convictions. so i do get an opportunity to discern the fruit and make a choice in a lot of instances. when the preacher speaks something in his message thats contary to the word, and not a syntax error, but wholly contrary to scripture, i know not to stand in prayer with them.
stop being so shallow in the word. the holy ghost will give you what u ask for to fight the devil if u surrender to the holy ghost. discernment is one of the gifts along with wisdom and knowledge. if you;re prayed up you will see this stuff for what it is.
and god is god. he will do what he chooses to do. but saying he is faithful to the unrepentant and those unfaithful to him beyond attempting to draw them to his son Jesus to receive salvation is not in the bible. stop taking scripture out of context. your argument would suggest i could go to the psychic to get what god has for me. and god will use them b/c he’s god. is god using them too?
god bless you, stay prayerful
2 Tim 2:15
Well it must have been a secret (of sorts) to Tramaine!
@ proverbs28nine,
I won’t be as long as you but i would just like to point out that you had a lot to say about the enemy, but to me…you’re giving him too much power. Waaaay too much power. He is NOT greater than our God…Jesus.
You assume that because these singers, teachers, prophets, etc who you think are false are not living right that somehow it stops God and let’s the devil have all the power. but God is God. And as a matter of fact, Paul put it like this in Philippians 1:18 “Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice.”
So, regardless of the sorcery, trickery, simon, seduction, counterfeit and whatever else he’s trying to do…he will not win. bottom line.
and it’s not that i’m being shallow in the word or saying that God is faithful to the unrepentant…which He is if he chooses to be…because He is married to the backslider (Jeremiah 3:14)
i recognize that these men are living in unrepentent sin and they’re foul, wrong as two left shoes, and backslidden…but that still doesn’t negate the power of God. And He protects us from the enemy and his tactics…we can’t see everything but God can.
The moral is this…God is greater and He will always be.
I found this link to be very informative surrounding the intertwining of of gospel music, the church, homosexuality and some of it’s wel known musicians and singers….http://www.prayzehymnonline.com/articles_happygay.html
You still miss the point. the devil has the power that you give him. not he has so much power. only time he bothers a real sanctified person is they let their consecration down and he finds weakness. we have the holy ghost some of us at least. and failing to heed the warning from the holy ghost gives the devil that access.
bible clearly says to remove yourself from these people. and no god is not married to the backslider. taking scripture out of context once again. he will not strive with men always. but i guess in today’s worldview marriage is as long as you feel like being with them. he will make an appeal to come out of sin, and not bless your mess. he’s faithful to that b/c his will is for you to be saved, and SAVED FROM YOUR SIN NOT IN YOUR SIN.
god is great. but we fail to let him move in our lives by ignorantly submitting ourselves to wolves. god is able to do anything. but he will not allow himself to be in the presence of people not submitting to him. thats the bottom line. he turned his face from his own son on the cross b/c he could not be connected to sin. when they perverted the temple in jerusalem with false gods, god’s cloud (presence) left the building. you think that dont apply to us today. when we allow mess and demons to lead the service the flow of the holy ghost cant operate at the same time. god refuses to be tied to unholiness. if we could offer up any type of sacrifice, cain’s gift would have sufficed.
and paul was not encouraging preaching in error, he said nevertheless i rejoice that christ is preached. anyone that hears the truth has an opportunity to be saved, true. but if they stay in that atmosphere too long, they will be deceived into thinking the double life is ok. and if they dont know about the leader/singer/whoever, and find out later, it may turn them away from the church completely. what they need is someone teaching/living it to show them what real favor in god is.
we have to be careful in everything we do, say, preach, teach, b/c someone is built up or brought down by it. god wants the glory but wont accept a flaky lifestyle.
look at today’s church. no demons cast out, more sickness, disease, fewer with the holy ghost, more falling to lust, failed marriages, the list goes on. consecration is gone, music/feel good in. same god in control and we’re getting less of what his track record all throughout the bible demonstrates. and your take on it is theres no connection to this shift in values/commitment to godliness i guess b/c god is greater.
is the church in your estimation more or less powerful now than fifteen years ago? and why? u can email me personally if you want to. i think this is good for everyone else to see this, but ill let you make the choice.
kevin_dixon10@hotmail.com
god bless
I realize this has little if anything to do with the actual article but does it seem strange that so many closeted homosexuals in our churches (black or white) seem to gravitate towards the music ministry? I mean, there’s always the stereotype about the male church organist…or choir leader…or nationally recognized southern Gospel singers whose ministries are destroyed through homosexual misconduct and then traipse to apostate churches years later and whine about how their sin is everyone else’s fault without taking any responsibility (Kirk Talley comes to mind). Either that or you have singers who enable them in their sin (like Cynthia Clawson and Joyce McCullough, for example, both Southern Gospel artists who sing at homo sexual churches). There needs to be a wakeup call in the Body today.
There’s a day of reckoning coming. I’m afraid for the Bride.
His bondslave,
David
My wife is a vocalist and I am a pianist in our Full Gospel church worship team, we both served in many choirs and groups. I grew up in COGIC and my wife in the Baptist church. We have knowledge of musicians in both denominations who was in some ways involved in gay activities, one really gifted COGIC organist was caught in a gay sex ring in a public bathroom. He was not publicly reprimanded nor removed from his position. The problem is that Pastors have to be in tune to the Holy Spirit to handle this problem. Oftentimes our churches will punish ministers, while allowing members in the music ministry to live any way they want. We must take the ministry of music more seriously, and not as a form of entertainment, but as a form of worship to lead the congregation into tne presence of our Holy God.
IN READING OTHERS COMMENTS I NOTICED THAT GOD WAS TYPED IN SMALL G, AS IN god. PLEASE GIVE OUR HOLY FATHER HIS DESERVED RESPECT AND CAPITALIZE HIS NAME, AS IN God.
I first want to commend GCM for the continuing attempt to keep the work and word of God pure, and take a definite stand against homosexuality in its totality, as most people wont. I thank you and will pray for your website and all that concerns you that you stay true to the original intent of spreading the Gospel as the Original Disicples once did.
Saying that, in response to all that was written in regards to the Hawkins brothers, James Cleveland, etc., it just very recently came to my attention that the vast majority of musicians, song writers, singers either are/were in, or struggling with this homosexual lifestyle. Not all, but most of them. I can say it and stand on it, as I am a musician and came from this nasty spirit of homosexual behavior and all that encompasses it. One thing that everyone must understand first is God can use and will use anyone he chooses to get his message across regardless of state, if it is for the sake of a soul, because he is Sovereign. If he chooses to use an unclean vessel to save someone else he will. The Word tells us that “many will say in that they I prophesied in your Name, and He will say depart from me I know ye not, you workers of iniquity” (Iniquity in short is the lifestyle of practiced sin without repentance). This applies to anyone, regardless of what work was done to bring people to Christ. In regards to the music industry, I’ve been around most of the “celebrities” and unfortunately it is true about what is going on with homosexuality and it is WICKED to say the least. It is not primarily about winning souls, it is primarily about selling “product”, so character is not necessarily important, unless it negatively affects sales and proceeds. We have to remember where music came from. Satan was the musician in heaven, and the Bible tells us that when he moved he created music. The devil was kicked out of heaven and a third of the angels went with him to the earth realm, so of course music would be perverted to some degree, and especially with what we consider “gospel” music. On a side note, isn’t the Gospel the life, death, burial and resurrection of Christ???? We also have to understand that the word “anointing” only means enablement to do something. Further study of the word anointing will tell you that the oil of God is smeared on an individual to be enabled to do something, so can it be safe to say that many of these musicians (past and present) were GIFTED, TALENTED even? The real question is, is there power BEHIND the anointing? I submit that God who is SOVEREIGN uses these musicians to get HIS message across and for those who come to Christ through the music, good! But for the musicians that don’t get their life together, woe unto them! Would God rather use a clean vessel, OF COURSE, but WHERE ARE THEY??? To clarify, I don’t condone ANYONE who promotes the gospel of Jesus via the music industry and lives a crooked life and think it is okay to be a homosexual, downlow, not sexuality active, or whatever the new lingo will be. My question is one, where are the clean vessels? I believe it is in 1Samuel where David was called a “skilled musician” and played to remove demonic spirits off of king Saul, spirits that were sent to Saul from GOD himself! David was anointed and HAD POWER with God to move demons off of leadership! When was the last time you seen that in the Christian church?
Another point I forgot to make is that we are supposed to be accountable to one another. Homosexuality is, to say the least, is a seducing spirit, and initially it is subtle. Music in itself seduces (I know I should use a better word, but I cant think if one right now). Leadership in the church of God is primarily to blame, as they won’t take a stand against homosexuality, generally misusing the scripture “judge not that ye may not be judged” not understanding that we are REQUIRED to correct anything in the House of God that goes directly against the Word of God. What happened to Gen 19:5 which says men are not to lay with another man like a man would lay with a woman, because it is an ABOMINATION (something that God himself HATES), what happened to Romans 1? I have found out that most leaders can’t take a stand because they are either in it themselves, want to be in it, or they are afraid that some secret sin (not necessarily homosexuality) will be exposed. We tend to think living Godly means perfect, which is wrong, as no one is perfect until God calls us back unto him on the day of judgment. We are supposed to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling (I think that is in the Book of Galations). Many of us fall into stuff because we try to be perfect, not understanding that we are to strive for holiness, and if we trip, get up, repent and keep moving. This Bible tells us in Romans 1 the depth of the homosexual nature, and that those who participate in it have no conscience to change, yet we allow that spirit to be in KEY positions in the church, not just the music department. See, the devil cant work unless he has a platform to be noticed and even worshipped, which is why he was kicked out of heaven in the first place, yet we allow him to rein in the earth realm in our churches, and then call it anointing, gift, talent (especially if it draws a crowd and money), and wonder why it is so prevelant in the church? The leaders have compromised and allowed sin to initially sneak in, and now it walks in. I know this site is primarily about the sin of homosexuality, but I submit that ANY sexual perversion should be dealt with quickly, just as it was in the days of the Law. Are we not to go to our brother/sister initially and let them know of their error IN LOVE and COMPASSION, until it is evident that there is a positive or negative change in the individual? If a person really wants change, they will change, even if it means sitting themselves down from leading to get themselves together and through PROVEN supervision get back on the right track. I strongly am against anyone in a homosexual lifestyle or any sexual perversion be functioning in a leadership position in the LORDS church.
YACAPH, your words are sound and weighty. Thank God for you and the witness you bear.
I am especially blessed by your question which is one we have asked from time to time here. Would God rather use a clean vessel, OF COURSE, but WHERE ARE THEY???
Why dont the musicians and singers who are living a clean life speak up and hold their fellow artists accountable? Are they afraid of what those who are living in error can do to their careers?
When Moses came down from the mountain, he asked a question: “Who is on the Lord’s side?” The first ones who responded to him were the levites.
They were the only ones who refused to become involved in the idolatrous debauchery. Where are the true levites who are on the Lord’s side and not on the record companies side, not on their career’s side, not on their friend’s side?
Those who call themselves “levites” and “worshippers” today are worshipping a golden calf called money and status. A byproduct of that is sexual immorality. A true worshipper would never allow himself or herself to become contaminated with the sin around them. Nor would they remain silent and passive knowing the extensive deterioration of the “gospel music industry” as we know it today.
Exodus 32: 27 Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’ ” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.
Unfortunately, musicians have an internal secret society which says basically says “hook me up and I look out for you” regardless of the consequences. It is about the money! The old statement still stands, money talks. Those who are actually upright in the industry generally want to keep a low profile, and generally don’t want to ruffle feathers, and they keep their spouses very close to them (which is wise in some ways). I would think that those who are living Godly for real are actually working the hardest, as the music industry is overpopulated with messy individuals who will do anything, ANYTHING to grab the spotlight, so if there are clean vessels that are getting a decent paycheck, why mess up the gravy train? On the flipside, holding up the bloodstained banner as a sold out individual for Christ doesn’t necessarily mean stand on a pulpit with the cameras rolling to get the point across. Effectiveness can also be in the still small voice, as the Holy Spirit frequently speaks in. Personally, I think that all the media attention is another great problem, as WE are promoted and not Christ! Have you ever seen a REAL alter call after a music service? Rarely happens, if at all, and if it does happen, it is faltered, as generally it is rushed along to get the offering (even if it was a ticketed event).Your website deals with homosexuality, which is in itself major, but what about the pedophiles, drug abusers, wife beaters, etc.? I am only going to say that I couldn’t bring myself to go to a well known musician’s funeral (I pray home-going services but I don’t know) as the inner circle in the music industry began throwing up some things he was known for outside of music. He wasn’t a homosexual or downlow person at all, but he was known for other things that were not good, but again, it was overlooked because of talent, ability and skill. I will never take that from him, as I loved his music, and followed him for years, until one of his former singers opened their mouth and shared what they should not have that was verified by different people from different circles. I was heartbroken, but the people who knew firsthand didn’t say a thing to correct it. Those who do know, it would be better to keep things quiet, as both he and his wife I pray are at peace now. I’ve asked people and even God “what’s the deal with the musicians”? Even David in the Bible was a whore, and a murderer! But the Bible also says that he was a man after God’s own heart. The people of Davids day knew the deal, but I guess in his instance, he was King, so he was untouchable, and God had to send prophet Nathan to pull him in at one point. Truth be told, we honestly don’t know who we will see as we go to meet Jesus face to face. One thing I know personally, God will give you grace (which most homosexuals talk about), but there is another thing called MERCY. Mercy and grace eventually runs out if one is not careful to heed Gods warnings. The Bible speaks that with sin when it is finished (or matured to it’s highest potential) brings death. I can’t speak for anyone else, but as an ex-homo, for me it is a daily walk to live for Christ, and take a stand against this mess, especially in the music industry. I agree with you-the musicians who are sold out for Christ must speak out against this mess, and show and prove that God blesses those openly that will truly live for him. I stand vehemently against this, as I know how easy it is to fall into it, and how even harder it is to get out of it, especially when there is no one around you to make you accountable (something I didn’t have). God himself did the work, and I am now responsible to tell anyone who will listen that God is a deliverer.
Correction it is Lev 18:22 where God says men should not have sex with men as it is an abomination
As an “insider”, do you think there is any hope for reform in the industry or is it a foregone conclusion that things will only get worse?
I think that the reform is happening now. The difference, however, is that I believe is God is doing this one HIMSELF. The Bible tells us that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church. The music industry has, in my opinion, become a tool from satan to make a very calculated attempt to prevail against the church by perverting it from the inside. I believe that foundationally gospel music was set up wrong from the beginning, since the definition of the term “gospel music”. The GOSPEL is the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, PERIOD. Based on the definition, how is the song “running tryin to make 100” a proper depiction of the gospel of Jesus? How is “stomp”? There are literally TONS of songs written by talented gifted musicians that do NOT promote the gospel of Jesus; it, in my opinion, promotes talent, the flesh and the display of it.
If we look historically at gospel music, it originally started from the US cotton fields during the time of slavery and it was used to give coded messages among the slaves to keep the slave masters ignorant of planned escapes, and whatever else they wanted to say without getting punished for it. The music then was classified as negro spirituals, and it is in fact a piece of our heritage. But to evolve it and then call it gospel, I believe it is incorrect. The evolution continued and the “powers that be” saw our music as a way to make money for themselves and opened up the path for talent to sing negro spirituals (I think it was also called “race” music, but more for the secular side), gospel, religious music. It was I believe the majority of the time about talent, and not spirituality. We all know that a singer, writer, etc is a dime a dozen. You can literally pick one off the street, and record in the studio, and you could have the next best thing.
I am a gospel music collector, with literally THOUSANDS of albums of our history, and I cannot tell you how disappointed I was to find out that the majority of the time, outside of talent and ability and skill were a bunch of people who were reported homosexual (male and female), alcoholics, abusers of drugs, etc. and it was well known among the insiders who in turn spoke on it AFTER THE FACT to the media or in books. It was sometimes during, depending on the circumstance. Now I am not talking about hearsay or just outright gossip, I am talking about things that can be verified, if you go to the proper sources. There has been no real accountability, and scandal has always ALWAYS been a part of it, generally when the musicians became sloppy with their mess, or just plain arrogant about it. The black church was also, in many cases, not applying the word of God properly when it came to correction of some (only some) of these musicians, and many felt they were forced to sell out and go secular. Many claimed that they weren’t getting “paid” so they left the church to make money (in my opinion that is a copout statement). With all these and other variables added to the equation, and no real relationship with Christ, many have run amok, and again, it doesn’t matter when the money train is pulling in, until the next best talent comes. It has always been money first and then God.
I believe that they should be properly paid for gifts and talents, but I believe that greed set in quickly, in addition to entitlement, and God was put off to the side and then eventually forgotten altogether, yet his Name is being used. I submit that most musicians prostitute the name of Jesus for personal gain no matter what the cost, and now God is cleaning house. How many more musicians and other church leaders do we have to hear about and their public scandal (homosexuality, drugs, alcohol, divorce, infidelity, etc) before we realize that we are to seek first the kingdom of God and all his righteousness? When do we realize that in all, ALL our ways we are to acknowledge HIM, and he will direct our paths? When do we believe the Word when it says delight ourselves in the LORD and he will give us the desires of our heart? Because God became secondary to the vast majority of folk, the Great I AM is now going to be first to strip away this mess and set it up right using the remnant that he alone can trust, those that will let the unredeemed know that living for Christ is more than getting a paycheck and having notoriety. Did you notice that some of these folk have more notoriety than Jesus did when he walked the earth?
I truly love this response, Pastor Foster, as we forget that God gives us ample amount of time to yield to him. Romans 1:18-22 in short tells us that Gods truth is known to us instinctively, and God put it there himself. So whether we were unredeemed and living a homosexual life, saved and doing it (or fell into it), the Word of God lets us know we know the difference between right and wrong, as God created this knowledge within us. That’s why folks will lie to conceal what they are doing (in this particular case), or wear it as a banner for the world to see it in order to justify it. Do you see a pedophile parade for pedophiles, or a serial rapist day to celebrate serial rapist? This homosexual movement going on draws a crowd and money, which is the focal point; if there was no money in it, there would be no controversy, no need to speak against it, not need to even mention it. What the world and the church has done is to gravitate to these and other damnable things clearly listed in the Word of God as wrong for the purpose of promoting agenda. The Bible tells us about spiritual wickedness in HIGH PLACES, which roughly talks to governmental leadership, this case being leadership in the church. The church is tied to this, and can’t really effectively shut down the promotion of homosexuality over Gods precepts, if the church is relying on governmental handout (one example is the 501c3 tax exempt status), and church offererings from parishoners who give to the church as a “good deed” but don’t want to really live for God in totality.
Women, I am told, have a “6th sense” and they would know something is going on. I personally don’t believe Tramaine was completely blind to this fact of what the deal was, but I can’t speak for her. What I can say is that women feel that they can “change” men in this sort of lifestyle (be it homosexual or bisexual). I have female friends who got caught up with men who are in sexual deviancy, but all they saw was muscle bodies, pretty eyes and wavy hair. Most women are in total denial, because of their own self esteem issues, and other women feel that they are “woman enough” to change these sort of men. I also found out years ago that there is another kind of woman who knew what the deal was, but marry or be with these men as an “arrangement”, for status, money, prestige, power, etc. Can’t tell you where Tramaine was in the equation, only she can. But for the women who can be spared this disaster in the male gender, I say “what did God say to you regarding this man”? Did you seek God, and did you wait for him to answer before you proceeded with your own desire?
I cant say much to this except AMEN. I wouldnt say it is money first then God. No man can serve two masters. He will love the one and hate the other. If these so called gospel artists are doing what they do for the money, the ugly truth is that people who hate God are being celebrated in our churches. Think about it.
God is reforming and it has begun. That’s why I will say again for whats it worth and to anyone who will listen. Stop and repent now. Come out of your sin, stop your sexual immorality, obey Christ and stop covering for thieves and robbers masquerading as ministers.
I dont know when it will be, but your soul will be required of you. Dont let death catch you outside of the will of God. After it comes, there is no hope for change.
With a long history of predecessors who have lost or never had conviction, the musicians that are coming up behind these people think it is okay to live a double life. People looked up to what society and the church calls “pioneers”. Pioneers who molest children, pioneers who want protégés to “bend over” in order to become famous, pioneers who also blackmail the people of God, the world, and each other to keep their pockets lined and have the audacity to say “to the glory of God”. These “pioneers” clearly have no regard for anyone but self, and are training others to do the same. And the church is silent because we want entertainment, we want our churches to be mega churches, and we definitely made ministry a career move. I am convinced that many, from the pulpit to the door, are really not saved! The church have taught for YEARS that all that has to be done is confess with our mouths and believe in our hearts that Christ has risen from the dead, and we are saved. The Word of God is true in its entirety, but to tell a soul that’s all there is to salvation is an outright lie! What happened to dying DAILY to our own flesh? What about working out our own soul salvation WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING? What happened to in the multiple of counsel there is SAFETY?I must admit Pastor Foster I honestly didn’t realize just how bad this is until I came across your website only days ago. This mess is reproducing after its own kind! I have a question, do we really KNOW in the music industry who is living for CHRIST? Is salvation now equated to what’s in our bank accounts, and what house we live in, and what car we drive? I find myself questioning it now. The accuser is on his job, and he set many up so that they can be accused, and I find that there is no repentance at all on the side of the offender. This is not the abundant life that Christ was talking about. One question I have for you Pastor, do you think this problem is more prevalent in the black church or the white church?
Bless you sir. What we have documented on this site YACAPH is stunning and yes sometimes a bit overwhelming if one isnt prepared. I must confess that I have been given much in terms of information from people who are FED UP with the degradation of God’s church. Its sitting in my inbox like planes on a stormy afternoon at Atlanta’s airport. But God has not given me the freedom to release it. With uncommon love, He is giving people opportunity to repent and to be reconciled to him. That is the beautiful thing I see in the midst of this perverse and crooked generation.
I dont think that the problem with homosexuality is more prevalent in the black church than in churches which are predominately white. We have documented widespread error across the board. This is a laodicean era for the church and it is infected. Some are angry (out of ignorance) and accuse us of exposing the sins of the church to the world, but its not so. Much of the information here comes from secular sources or the false prophets themselves have publicized their evil with no shame.
The central problem is not homosexuality per se, but the church seems to have cast off its respect and submissive posture to God’s word as its sole authority. Thus, in time any sin can become tolerated and even celebrated because we have drifted so far away from that which previously anchored us. Its no joke and we are in a spiritual crisis of great proportions. Yet, all is not lost. The Lord will save and deliver that which is his. All else he will destroy, their works will not survive the fire of his testing.
Thanks for the response. I agree with you totally about degradation of today’s church. I don’t believe at all that this website is focused on exposing sin, for the purpose of making the church of God look bad to the unredeemed. The homosexual spirit exposes itself, as it is its nature is to be seen. This spirit has a problem with the Light of God exposing this particular sin, (hence the accusation of gay hatred, gay bashing, judging) as it still is not the spotlight that it is looking for. I believe that this website is for the purpose to show the Body of Christ how to recognize the subtlety, perversion, and outright blatant attempt to glorify homosexuality and other sins related to it to pervert the Word of God, and also confuse those who are really going the distance in serving God. God is still the First and the Last, so He will show out and do what is necessary to show his disapproval of this and other sins. The gates of hell STILL will not prevail against the CHURCH. No weapon formed against this website, the remnant of God, you and your family shall prosper, and every tongue that rose and rising against any of it, may the Lord QUICKLY CONDEMN. I am glad to be better informed about this industry, and it pushes me to try even better to hold up the banner of Christ. God bless you pastor!
From someone outside the church, all the bitter comments in this thread just drives me further away from church and its politics. For the last 35 years the music of Edwin and Walter has been in my head everyday, as well as other black gospel performers. Their sexualilty has nothing to do with the feeling black gospel personally gives me. If their music can touch my heart and spirit so much, and others all over the world, shouldn’t we, as Walter signs, Be Grateful.