Well, we need to take out some time and help someone who is sinking in a quicksand of progay christian ideology. His name is Brandon. He did not like what GCM Watch said about Tonex. The comment however was chocked so full of inconsistencies, half truths, lies, and distortions of scripture that my heart went out to Brandon. Especially because he says he is a musician who “studies religious theology”. I’m not sure if that means he studies the Bible, but nonetheless I am appealing to our mature, seasoned saints to help Brandon understand the error of his thinking. Perhaps then, he will have a metanoia experience and serve the Lord in with a pure heart. You may address any portion of his comment you feel “led” to deal with. Thanks!
I have sat here and read many of the comments and the article. I am going to reply to this as a person who studies religious theology. As a person of color, A christian and a LGBT identified Christian and a musician. To start with I find it amazing how we consider ourselves as followers of Christ. Now being a person who studies theology never once do you hear Jesus talk about or condemn homosexuality. Yet we call ourselves followers of Christ. That’s the first problem Now I have read and seen you all have taken bible scriptures and have thrown it in our faces and expect that to be the end of it. You pick and choose what it is you want to read and say. I have yet to see any of you people who have taken these clobber scriptures and use all of the context. When you have taken all the context then your at the next level for discussion. Next speaking as a person of color, I find it interesting that you have not remembered that we have struggled against a long period of prejudice and hatred. Do you really think as people who have struggled to get rights, to be treated equal and with respect. Do you honestly find yourself any different than the people who hate people of color. So to condemn homosexual people I just find that very odd. As a christian you focus mostly on the judgement of God. Now to back up and correct the one person earlier who spoke of Bishop Carlton Pearson and Dr. Yuvette[sic] Flunder they teach exactly what Jesus taught. We should not worry about the judgment of God but the Grace and Mercy of God, as well as Gods love he has for every person everything every being. If most of you could understand that it is not about us. It is not about who loves who and who is doing. It is all about worshiping and serving God. When we as a people can get off the the petty things and realize it is about Gods love. We will not have to care about what someone else is doing because we will be more focused on Gods love and loving each other. Doing that will cover all of the thing. REMEMBER Jesus taught us love. I have yet to see you scripture clobbers talk about the love of God. Lastly I will talk now as a musician. I have seen you all talk about not to promote Tonex because of his life style. Well is this the case many of your churches will not have good music. Most of church musicians are gay. Most of you people in the church especially the pastor knows it. You won’t see that pastor get rid that musician unless they cause a scene. The pastor knows about the lifestyle but is not willing to loose his members because of bad music. Most of these pastors will pimp these people for their benefit and use their gifts. So next time you think about not promoting a musician because of their lifestyle. You remember that most churches run the music department by gay men who write that music and teaches the music that gets people in your church. Remember that!!! Now what we need to praying for is not for god to change somebody. We need to pray first that we as Identified Christians grow stronger in God. That is what we NEED to be doing, there would be much less DRAMA if we could do that. Next as we grow in God we need to get a reality check of what it is Jesus was teaching us on how to live. If you all don’t know Jesus has never turned away from anyone, nowhere in the bible will you see that. Some how you bible clobbers have missed that fact. I say this as a closers, don’t let ignorance (which means lack of knowledge) prevent you who identify as Christians from the important thing which is Gods love for us, and by Gods grace (which means we get what we don’t deserve) and Gods Mercy( which means we didn’t get what we do deserve) Don’t let this prevent you from the real reason as to why we serve the God we serve and have the Faith we have as Christians. Peace with you will, Blessings Brandon
Gay Christian Movement Watch 
OK GCMWatch,
Since I’ve got a few minutes, I’ll attempt to deconstruct Brandon’s “argument” – but remember, I’m just a simple scripture clobberer:
If you consider yourself a “LGBT” indentified person, then you are not a follower of Christ, therefore you are not a Christian. Sure you could call yourself one if it makes you feel better, but according to scripture (John 14:21) you’re not – primarily because of your willful disobedience to His commandments.
Obviously you’re studying “religious theology” from Friends International Christian University. You should read the bible in context for yourself, that way you will know that Jesus came to fulfill the will of His Father – he didn’t add anything to God’s Words nor did He take anything away. He was the Word made Flesh to dwell among us.
Scripture is replete with the condemnation of homosexuality (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9 and much more). So If God had already sufficiently addressed the issue, what was Jesus going to do – especially since He already stated His mission (John 8:28-29)? So the fact that Jesus may not have specifically spoken the words “hey you men, don’t have sex with other men…and women – don’t have sex with other women, OK?” negates the eternal truth of God? Interesting.
Oh, and I’m sorry to keep throwing all of these scriptures at you, but I just can’t help it – it’s kind of necessary to defend God’s Word by quoting His Word in context.
Moving along…
So us black scripture clobberers should “pump the brakes” when it comes to calling out all wrong IF those who are doing wrong are black also? Do you also subscribe to the heretical Black Liberation Theology as well, Brandon? The erroneous attempts at equating homosexual equality with racial equality is (at best) a poor alignment and (at worst) a purposeful attempt to garner support for an upopular (and ungodly) cause.
A true Christian focuses on the Word of God in it’s entirety – that includes His judgement, mercy, grace, love, correction, rebuke, et al. Unlike the homosexual lobby (and the pulpit pimps – but that’s another discussion for another time), we don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing the “stuff we like” and eliminating the “stuff we don’t like”. God’s love is true and just, but God doesn not ignore His own Word!
Oh, and Carlton Pearson is a literal joke. Of course you would embrace him (and false bishop Yvette Flounders) because they’ve reduced Christ to a roadblock to getting to heaven after “living right”. Carlton Pearson is a heretic(surely you as a student of “religous theology” know what the word “heresy” means), and Yvette Flounders…well…both of them need to repent before the Lord and turn from their wicked ways before it’s too late.
We already know that Brandon. And we also know that many of the big-time bishops, evangelists, prophets, pastors (and their wives) and congregants are gay as well. That doesn’t make it OK to practice homosexuality.
God forbid we actually sit in a church service and listen to the pastor soberly exegete scripture – instead of being entertained by the musicians and worship leaders before hand. I guess we should just seal up the church and throw up our hands.
I’ll stop here Brandon, because this is not my blog.
The bottom line is that I and others here will honestly and earnestly pray for you – specifically that God remove the delusion from your mind and your eyes, that you would repent of your sinful allegiances and come to the Lord seeking forgiveness of your sins and commit yourself to living a holy life. No matter what, I pray that the Lord’s sovereign will be done.
I will leave this comment that is part of a bigger email between a man named Jason Dulle and a professor and you can read the entire article at http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/homosexualuc.htm. Well here is the snippet for you to read Brandon, hopefully it is helpful:
Jesus Did Not Condemn Homosexuality: So What?
You said, “Jesus does talk about those who are victims of prejudice like the Samaritian, and those who are maraginalized and rejected like the lepers, but her never says a word about anyone’s sexual orientation. Perhaps church leaders should contemplate the possiblity that they are, as one man once suggested, ‘making much of that which cannot matter much to God.’ “This argument fails on two grounds. First, the major premise of the argument is flawed. The argument in syllogistic form is as follows:
P1 Any issue Jesus is silent on must be morally acceptable
P2 Jesus is silent on the issue of homosexuality
———————————————————————
Homosexuality is morally acceptable
Is it true that any issue Jesus did not speak to is to be considered morally acceptable? A cursory reflection on the notion reveals that this is not a true premise. Jesus did not speak to the issue of incest, rape, drug abuse, wife beating, and gay-bashing. Are we to conclude that these acts are morally good? Clearly not. We cannot determine the moral issue there is to speak to. He spoke to those moral concernst that were relevant to his day, and homosexuality was not one of them. Of course Jesus said and did much more than what is recorded of Him in the Gospels, so it is possible that He might have commented on the issue but it was not recorded by the Evangelists because they did not deem it important to their theological and literary purposes. Whether it was Jesus’ failure to address the issue of homosexuality, or the Evangelists’ failure to record what He might have spoke concerning it, it speaks nothing concerning the morality of the act itself.
Secondly, from the Christian perspective whatis moral or immoral is not based solely on what Jesus said or did not say. While we are interested in what Jesus had to say, we use Scripture as a whole to determine how God feels about various moral issues. When we examine the whole of Scripture we find a very clear portrait of God’s take on homosexuality.
This comprehensive approach to morality makes perfect sense within the Christian worldview for two reasons:
1. The Bible claims to be inspired by God. This means that every word in the Bible is equally authoritative. The teachings of one individual in one book cannot be given more weight thatn another individual’s teaching in another book. Jesus’ words hold no more authority than Paul’s or Moses’
2. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is God incarnate. The same God who spoke in the OT is the same God who became man in the face of Jesus Christ. It would be a mistake, then, to argue that since Jesus did not speak against homosexuality that God is not concerned wtih the issue, for it is clear that God did speak to the issue.
Brandon I don’t know you personally but you sound like a young man who really wants to know who God is. I will say this before I get into a few points. Our love for God is not based on God accepting us for who we are and how we chose to live our lives in this world, but our love for God is based on us keeping His commandments (Joh 14:23,24). Yes Christ did condemn homosexuality, as well as all other sexual sin and all other acts of sin when He said that Him and God where one. He also said that he didn’t come to condemn the world, but that through Him the world might be saved (John 3:16, 17). You have two problems here Brandon if you think that homosexuality is not a sin. One, sin is what brings condemnation upon men and sin enslaves men to the lust of their flesh, read Romans chapter 5 and 6 this will help you see the truth. Secondly, Jesus came to save the world, from what? HIV or a lack of love, poverty, hunger, and what ever other social issue or manor of cruelty you can think of. These are all the results of sin which separates men from God. God is not trying to fix the results of sin by teaching men how to love each other He came to save us from the condemnation of sin, and if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:5-10). I will share something very personal with you Brandon. My daughter got pregnant at the age of 21 outside of marriage. She had been involved with a young man who was living with another woman and his children. To make a long story short, though I was disappointed in her for the choice that she had made she never stop being my daughter and I never stop being her father. I have never agreed with her actions because of the long term effects it will have on her life. She will have to face the consequences of her actions for years to come. She will have trust issues when it pertains to relationships, and her son will have to deal with not having a father in his life. I love my daughter but my love for her doesn’t excuse her actions, but my love for her seeks to help her face the challenges of her sin so that it might not destroy her or her son. This is what God is trying to do for all of us, by shining His light on us so that we can see two things, God and our sin. The grace of God is a beautiful thing because it allows God to forgive us of our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I am not in agreement with sexual sin of any kind because God’s word condemns it (Rom 1:1-32). With that being said I believe we are to show the love of Christ to all men.
thanks Pastor Moore. You put the pastoral touch to it.
thank IST, you put the edge on it
both needed. Truth both cuts and heals when spoken in love.
I would also like to tell Brandon you definitely have identity issues. Christ cannot be co-opted with any sinful inclination or earthly identity. He is supreme.
The scriptures tell us let everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
If you havent put away your sins and are calling yourself by his name you are in error.
Please read Identity issues and homosexuality.
Brandon one cannot throw the bible scriptures into anyone’s face. It is just there. When one quotes the scriptures to you and it is the TRUTH, then it is what it is. You don’t have to accept the truth if you don’t want to. We all have free will, but you cannot throw the scriptures into anyone’s face. It is the word of God. God’s words he said it we are only quoting and you see it with your own eyes. So please stop trying to play that old lame game because it is null and void. The word is the word nothing added nothing taken away. Everybody on this earth who practices homosexuality knows it is wrong. You all know it’s a sin just like a prostitute knows it;s wrong, and a drug dealer knows it’s wrong to sell drugs etc. Why do you thing sin is always hidden, because the person doing it knows it’s wrong. That’s why you all protest and get so angry the way you do when someone shows you in the Bible that it’s wrong, because you know it’s wrong. You really know it is don’t you
Hi nan,
Great comment but I must be a bit nitpicky for a moment:
I’m sure Pastor Foster, Pastor Moore, and other more learned men can better discuss this than I can – but (biblically), we don’t have free will. Our free will is actually God’s sovereign will. We are depraved in our nature, so we don’t even have the sense to make a choice apart from the Holy Spirit. It is He who turns our heart of stone so that we can even accept the gift of salvation.
As “uncaring” as it may sound – it is God’s will as to who will know and accept Him and who will be seperated from Him for eternity. We don’t know the details, but when people reject His truth, it’s actually a part of His sovereign plan. All we can do is present His truth AS IS, and let the chips fall where they may.
Again, your overall comment was on point.
And whose will is it that the chips fall where they may?
Hi nan,
It is God’s will that the “chips fall where they may”. Nothing happens unless the Lord allows it. As I mentioned, we cannot make any rational decisions in our depraved minds apart from Christ, so we can’t “decide” to “turn our lives over to Him”. The entire concept of “free will” is an Arminian theory that is at the root of modern evangelism (most notably, the Word of Faith).
Here’s an excellent article on God’s sovereignty and our “free will” – it really does a good job of presenting a fundamental explanation. Also, here’s another great article on the concept of free will – and our selective affinity for it.
Again, Pastor’s Moore, Foster, and others can go deeper into this from a theological perspective (I’m just a layman), but it is a concept that every believer should know – especially as we go out into the world spreading the Gospel. Those who reject the message of the Cross were supposed to reject it.
IST, I cant give a full approval to either calvanism or aminianism as Christian doctrines. Both have truths found verified in scripture. And both I feel incorporate ideologies which perhaps are misinterpretations/misapplications of scripture. I dont want to go into it in detail at this time because it would drastically alter the intent of this post. I also ask others to refrain from further discussing this here. The other option is to continue the discussion on the last open forum.
I promise to explore it perhaps more fully in light of progay theology and see where the two either are infused or diverge.
At that point I will invite you or others to discuss the particular merits if you still care to.
‘Nuff said Pastor Foster – thanks for the soapbox.
I knew that